Caught on Tape - British Soldiers Beating Iraqi Children

[IanPotter]

(02-25-2011 07:09 PM)pax681 Wrote:  um.......... huntly and his gf maxine car admitted what went on.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soham_murders

Wiki? Sweet!

Nothing to do with Rampton, Holloway and the public frenzy that had been whipped up by the scandalous media coverage at all then?

Very well pax681. It was you I was hoping to reach in particular and it's clear I failed miserably.

"Oh well. How sad. Never mind" (in my best Windsor Davis voice).

Update: Dude. I didn't drop that link in so you could read about Huntley & Carr. In fact, you can delete all references to Huntley & Carr if you like. If that suprises you then maybe you ought to take another look. What about if I told you that I too am ex-military (and honourable, like you) and that I'm deeply concerned by what's happening to the minds of our current generation of squaddies? Would that work?

[pax681]

(02-27-2011 11:55 AM)IanPotter Wrote:  What about if I told you that I too am ex-military (and honourable, like you) and that I'm deeply concerned by what's happening to the minds of our current generation of squaddies? Would that work?

tbh i my opinion modern soldiers by FAR lack the proper discipline from the days when i was in.
due to the "demographic trough"(ie the dip in child birth since the pill was introduced) the percentage of people willing to join has dropped, that twinned with the information available to people nowadays via the internet means people are by far better informed than i was when i joined.. seriously.. i NEVER thought i'd see a war... i shit you not.
so better informed people means EVEN LESS people wanting to join thus standards drop.
In Edinburgh there is a place on the Royal Mile called Whiteford House.
it's kinda like a "home" for ex-servicemen.
i volunteer there once a week as until last year my great uncle was there. he was a WW2 veteran.
the thing i have noticed about a lot of the younger people there is that they seem not to be from the "uk"
lots of guy from Fiji, Tonga and all sorts of places are now filling the ranks of the british army/services.
again due to the fact that there are less brit citizens willing to join.
thus the numbers are supplemented by former colonies/commonwealth citizens being actively recruited.
not that i am saying that they are to blame for the drop in standards AT ALL.
it seems to me that the way of training soldiers these days is very much not up to scratch as it was in my day.
getting rid of the individual regimental training depots was a bad idea for a start.
i did ALL my training , bar my wings training at Depot Para.
now it seems that everyone in the army goes to Catterick THEN onto their regimental training, except for the Scottish division which still is based in Penecuik, just outside Edinburgh.
my opinion then is that the standard of recruit from the uk has dropped, the discipline given during and post basic training has dropped and there are many wankers in uniform that would probably be ASBO cases in civvie life if they were not in uniform.

As for the Soham Murders.. well the evidence plus the confessions seems to make it clear , especially twinned with huntlys case history as a kiddie fiddler, albeit he didn't get convicted those things are on record.
wiki was just the easiest and quickest link on it.
i remember the case well and the media frenzy, which ALWAYS happens in cases like that.
btw i used to watch "it ain't half hot mum" with my grandfather..lol
great program however Windsor Davies always used to say "Oh Dear, How Sad.Never Mind"
in fact.. you know... i now have the urge to go se if i can download some..LOL
i managed to get hold of some Dave Allen not long ago.. the man was a genius.. always loved his stuff...

....bugger i now can't get "meet the gang coz the boys are here... the boys to entertain you!" out my head...ROFL
Edit :bloody hell.. they got all 8 series on demonoid... getting them now..LOL

[IanPotter]

pax681 Wrote:

Quote:tbh i my opinion modern soldiers by FAR lack the proper discipline from the days when i was in.

I couldn't agree more.

Quote:the percentage of people willing to join has dropped, that twinned with the information available to people nowadays via the internet means people are by far better informed than i was when i joined

That's true, but I'm not sure it explains the lack of discipline as such. For that, I'd have to bring in the ever more degenerate media and our completely corrupted education system (outcome-based education especially). Other things too, because it's complex, but those have been two of the primary catalysts imo.

Quote:.. seriously.. i NEVER thought i'd see a war... i shit you not.

Me neither. I still remember the shock I felt when my alarm went off and I awoke to find the newsreader explaining that Argies had invaded the Falklands.

“Scotland?” I thought. “What the fuck do they think they're going to get out of invading Scotland? It can't be the bagpipes and we perfidious English have already nicked the best of their oil and scotch!”.

Please note: that last sentence is not entirely truthful..... (The oil was ours to start with).



(I knew you'd appreciate that one...)

Might as well have been bloody Scotland though. Nearly lost my nuts off South Georgia because of the cold.

(Don't tell anyone, but the truth is it served me right. I got pissed right up on a buckshee case of McEwans and spent the night comatose in a snowdrift! True story...)

Quote:In Edinburgh there is a place on the Royal Mile called Whiteford House.
it's kinda like a "home" for ex-servicemen.
i volunteer there once a week as until last year my great uncle was there.

Much respect. Thank you on behalf of everyone.

Quote:the thing i have noticed about a lot of the younger people there is that they seem not to be from the "uk"
lots of guy from Fiji, Tonga and all sorts of places are now filling the ranks of the british army/services.

Yeah, so I'd heard. Doesn't make me feel comfortable tbh.

Quote:getting rid of the individual regimental training depots was a bad idea for a start.

I thought so too. Didn't they cut the infantry training schedule from a year to three months as well? I seem to recall a story about that – and also one about how the BFT time had to be increased by 20 or 30 seconds so the fat bastards stood some chance of getting off remedial PT now and again!

Quote:...there are many wankers in uniform that would probably be ASBO cases in civvie life if they were not in uniform.

Looks that way to me too. Do you ever visit the ARRSE site? I've not been for a while because I got cheesed off with the censorship of anything relevant, but it's not hard to find some quite disturbing attitudes towards civvies surfacing there from time to time. Sure we looked down on the undisciplined rabble public in my day too (a bit); but we knew it was our job to defend and protect them nonetheless. I don't get a sense of that from the current crop: not at all in some cases. I'm sure your comment about foreign recruits is applicable but I can't help feeling it goes even deeper than that.

Quote:As for the Soham Murders.. well the evidence plus the confessions seems to make it clear , especially twinned with huntlys case history as a kiddie fiddler, albeit he didn't get convicted those things are on record.

Well, again I must point out that Huntley and Carr were NOT the reason I posted the link. I posted it because there are details of a number of American servicemen carrying out a variety of crimes against innocent victims and there's a strong link to medication etc. That was what I wanted you to see & Joe's article provided me with a vehicle. If I had a 'lots of soldiers seem to be going bonkers' article without the Huntley content I would probably have posted that instead.

That said, let me give you a few of my observations about the Chapman/Wells killing:

Look at the timing of the event. August 2002. Do you remember how the intention to invade Iraq was being played up during the period, ie in the run up to the eventual invasion in March 2003?

Is it possible that it was ESSENTIAL for the British government to frame Huntley in order stop the stories about the US servicemen getting airplay? If the Huntley article is true (and I happen to think it is), it would have seriously derailed their plans, because at that time the British peeps really didn't have much appetite for another war (hence all the made up stuff about aluminium pipes, yellow-cake uranium, anthrax, mushroom clouds, 45 minutes and the rest of the crap that got Dr David Kelly killed, among others).

It's dirty these days man. Dirty like your puttees after a 20 mile march across the Yorkshire Dales in February. You remember puttees don't ya pax? What about canvas webbing, SLRs and those little metal burners in the compo rations? F*ck that for a game of soldiers.

... But I digress.



You know they never found ANY DNA evidence in Huntley's car don't you? No hair, no skin, no blood, no semen, no nothing. Odd that – but not as odd as the fact that none of the three CCTV cameras Huntley must have driven past recorded seeing his Fiesta that day? And why drive them to the US airbase anyway?

So many odd things: like in court Huntley spent the entire time rocking backwards and forwards with an absent expression and drooling down on his shirt like a moron. Before he went to Rampton he was quite a bright lad, reportedly. Similar story with Carr, but she was easier to break so they scared the shit out of her and stuck her in Holloway for a fortnight (or a week, can't remember).

And by the way, that kiddy fiddling? I don't recall the details precisely without looking into all my notes, but the TRUTH looks something like this:

When Huntley lived up north as a 18 or 21 year old (can't remember which), he met a 15 yr old girl. They became boyfriend and girlfriend and slept together. Her mother, for again I reason I can't recall, didn't like Huntley ended up falling out, so she called the cops and tried to get him busted. Point is, it looks much more like a teenage romance to me than it does paedophilia – and yet the media chose not to bring that out.

It just HAD to be Huntley, you see? Is it possible he might have been one of the first British victims in the War on Terror?

There's more, but as I said, I'm not here to defend Huntley; I wanted to let you know that there is evidence that a breakdown is occurring in what you and I considered acceptable conduct during our service – and it seems you agree anyway, so it's all good.

As for Huntley, maybe I'll make a proper post about it one day. It's an interesting story.

Quote:btw i used to watch "it ain't half hot mum" with my grandfather..lol

Thought you might. Me too! Haven't watched TV for years now though. Not good for my brain I find.

Quote:"Oh Dear, How Sad.Never Mind"

Oh dear! Yes. I did get a sense that 'oh well' was wrong, but I couldn't put my finger on it lovely boy.

Quote:i managed to get hold of some Dave Allen not long ago.. the man was a genius.. always loved his stuff...

Big smile... If he wasn't being a tyrannical git my old man used to let me stay up to watch Dave Allen each week. Can't remember if it was before Match of the Day came on or after but I always looked forward to those few hours of TV on Saturday night. The rest of the time I wasn't allowed to touch it; which today I realise wasn't such a bad thing

Quote:....bugger i now can't get "meet the gang coz the boys are here... the boys to entertain you!" out my head...ROFL
Edit :bloody hell.. they got all 8 series on demonoid... getting them now..LOL

Oh no! Me too!

[pax681]

ianpotter Wrote:Might as well have been bloody Scotland though. Nearly lost my nuts off South Georgia because of the cold.

(Don't tell anyone, but the truth is it served me right. I got pissed right up on a buckshee case of McEwans and spent the night comatose in a snowdrift! True story...)

LOL my uncle was in 3 Para and got through without many scratches UNTIL he got given a bottle of whisky byBrian Hanrahan, the reporter... he and his mate curly got shitfaced on it and then My uncle Mick then fell over on the night on empty bottle and cut his chest..LOL
he still blames Hanrahan to this day for his Falklands war wound..lol

ianpotter Wrote:I thought so too. Didn't they cut the infantry training schedule from a year to three months as well? I seem to recall a story about that – and also one about how the BFT time had to be increased by 20 or 30 seconds so the fat bastards stood some chance of getting off remedial PT now and again!

ayer and they also now have to treat recruits with kid gloves in case anyone cries "the Cpl/Sgt was nasty and shouted at me!"
never mind that when sent down to the guard room now it's all show parades and no beastings.
NOTHING on this earth teaches you not to bugger up that "floor bumper Ballet" as we called it..LOL
apparently the ony place a recruit can get slapped these days is on the ranges.
otherwise the NCO/Officer has to state "i am going to touch you" for adjust your kit.
i remember my first RSM Parade at Depot para and of course i loked like a bag of bollocks and had tram lines to make blackpool like like a hornby train set..lol
the RSM looked at me.. then stood behind me and then said into my right ear as he brought his Pace Stick into my view
"son, i am gonna stick this pace stick in your right ear... so it comes out your left ear.. stick my cock up your arse and ride you round this camp like a fucking motor bike!"
i nearly shat laughing.... which i didn't realise was a classically bad move.
his next words were "belt and beret off boy and get your fucking arse down the guard room, and when they ask you why you are there tell them you laughed at the RSM"
thus i was introduced to Floor Bumper Ballet"..lol
i was also the king of Beeswaxing boots..lol used to earn a fair few bucks from that.
strange really that it was kind of a meditative thing to be to get boots shiney as fuck....

ianpotter Wrote:Looks that way to me too. Do you ever visit the ARRSE site? I've not been for a while because I got cheesed off with the censorship of anything relevant, but it's not hard to find some quite disturbing attitudes towards civvies surfacing there from time to time. Sure we looked down on the undisciplined rabble public in my day too (a bit); but we knew it was our job to defend and protect them nonetheless. I don't get a sense of that from the current crop: not at all in some cases. I'm sure your comment about foreign recruits is applicable but I can't help feeling it goes even deeper than that.

never been on the site TBH. but when i was in we kinda looked down on civvies... then again as a Para we tended to look down on everyone...LOL except the Ghurkas, the SAS and the Det(which has now become the SRR)
mind you only airborne went into the Rat pit..lol now THAT was a bar and a half.
the southwestern was where the ghurkas and at time airborne hung out. but that was a peaceful joint hangout.
ghurkas are incredible soldiers and et treated like shit. it's a crying shame even with what Joanna Lumley did for them, they deserve more.
but the present crop as you say, pretty much tossers.. all gob and knob.. no thinking at all.

ianpotter Wrote:It's dirty these days man. Dirty like your puttees after a 20 mile march across the Yorkshire Dales in February. You remember puttees don't ya pax? What about canvas webbing, SLRs and those little metal burners in the compo rations? F*ck that for a game of soldiers.

just caught the tail end of puttees but very well remember the SLR.
also w apparently they don'#t run in boots? i mean wtf?
how the fucker can you call it a BFT or CFT without having boots on?
hexamine burners we so shite and kakked up yopue scoff troughs .
i got me a wee gas burner for my cooking ad ALWAYS remembered my curry powder or other seasonings to make that compo shite taste pallatable.
there is nothing worse that the 3 day compo "log"..LOL i am sure you know what i mean..lol
i remember when we first got that shitty SA80, the magazines used to drop out the bloody things , totally useless shite till they fixed it.
the SUSAT sight is nice tho.

ianpotter Wrote:It just HAD to be Huntley, you see? Is it possible he might have been one of the first British victims in the War on Terror?

is there any info on the tracker on that?
if not PM me and we can organised me getting it somehow.
will be interesting to have a wee gander at it.

ianpotter Wrote:Please note: that last sentence is not entirely truthful..... (The oil was ours to start with).

aye right bugger lugs..lol it's in Scottish territorial waters and the claim was registered "on behalf of the Scottish Nation" by westmonster
i have a feral haggis on hand if there's any more of that.... you think they're bad on a plate... wait till you see one that's wild!!!!

i was dow in the Falklands after that war and stayed in the legendary accommodation known as "the Bronx"... what a shitehole of a portacabin complex that was. apparently it's all posh acomms now.
however i have NEVER known anyone to come back from the land of Benny..lol ad not call that place "the Fucking Falklands".
BTW did you know that there's MASSIVE oil reserves there. they knew about them then but the tech to get to it wasn't developed yet.
that tech has since been developed during the drilling in the north Sea... hence the present tensions coming between Argentina and Westminster again.
will be interesting to see what happens there tbh.
even though it's by far a lot bigger a Garrison that just a couple of dozen bootnecks as it was back then it will be an UBER strain on the services as they are already over stretched and far too used to being in rather warmer climes in general.
if that kicks off that'll be a lot of fronts i massively different theatres i think for the UK services to meet without getting all the STABS out on an "S" type(as they called em in my day)

Dave Allen was a total MASTER of humour , naughty, edgy yet still an utter gentleman to boot.
i always remembered his parting words
"good night and may your god go with you"
he was the first comedian i saw that did proper story telling observational comedy..
his stuff is timeless i have greatly enjoyed watching it again.

something just occurred to me

ianpotter Wrote:Nearly lost my nuts off South Georgia because of the cold.

you wouldn't happen to have been a certain type of bootneck would you? familiar with paraquat maybe?
just a guess..lol as there was really only one other unit which was not bootneck during those times and that was "22" as i recall.
i suppose the way to ask would be did you "tab" or "yomp"?..

i remember once being in cyprus and the Irish Rangers were there.
one of their number was a piper and had got so shitfaced the previous night he totally swamp ratted his bed..lol
on the muster the RSM asked him to go grab his pipes and play "a life on the ocean waves"..lolol
i do really miss the humour tbh and the patter was astounding.
i have never before or since known a bunch of people who can say ANYTHING, any word at all and everyone knows they mean shagging..lol
anyways... time to get my head down. back at work 2moro after time off to get moved house.
feel free to grid to mag me here

[^v^hooters ex]

(02-27-2011 03:34 AM)pax681 Wrote:  

(02-26-2011 02:40 AM)rsol Wrote:  what you fail to distinguish is a shade of grey. if you wish to knee jerk at every time someone scratches their knee thats up to you. apart from the fact that this is so old and has already been exposed and it deserves little more from us as its already covered many years ago.

Bar my dislike for squadies i still have the crazy notion that they are human beings acting like they have had 20 kids hurling rocks at them all day and decided to teach them a lesson. if you cant see that and only see torture, your wolf cries wont be heard.

These guys should have displayed that supposed discipline they seem to treasure. However this is far from a war crime and no worse than how police treat the public in India. so im in the relativism front here these guys are dicks. The kids did not help their case.

Note that i didnt use terms like:
fucking scumbags
suck the state's cock
fuck you

ect ect thats why i still carry on posting here.

good post rsol.
i am an ex-squaddie.....(soldier) and have had rocks etc thrown at me in many and varying countries.
kinda like a cross continental rock-a-thon..lol
however. rsol and i have had a wee chat here and there via pm and we get on fine. on many occasions his humour has put a big cheesy grin on my face and a couple of belly laughs.
His posts tend to be factual, based on experience. technical knowledge and put in a calm kind of academic sense that i like.
sometimes this may seem dispassionate to people but it isn't.
it's just a means of laying out the facts, taking ALL thing into consideration and presenting them based on the things i said above.
he is a realist and not a dramatist or reactionary as some can seem to be.
i am sure we have our differences in many things, however it's the differences between people that make the world a funky and interesting place to be.
even though i am an ex squaddie i have evolved as a person a lot since then and to be frank think a lot of soldiers are complete tits.
what you have to remember from a soldiers point of view getting hit by rocks isn't a funky thing at all.
and can often hurt more than just a tad.
first time i got hot by a brick was in Andersonstown(Nothern Ireland)
and to be quite frank it hurt like fuck and to be honest i would love to have slapped the wee bugger that did it.
as said before in a previous thread when talking to clouds, i was trying to explain things about how soldiers are trained and how they react and methods,, common methods of crowd control (ie fear)
on many things we agreed however i could have put things better.
i tried a calm, "look this is how it is a a soldier" point of view and was mistakenly taken to condone what was done in the video. when i wasn't... i was just trying to explain the whys of how a soldier reacts.
however to actually have done so would have caused more problems that it would have solved.
soldier or not.... if someone is lobbing stones, rocks or bricks at you.. the temptation to get a wee bit of a lesson taught to those throwing them is there.
now check my previous post... i would have had the wankers up on charges in a nanosecond.... it's not the way to do things.
but what rsol says is RIGHT..... sometimes it isn't so easy to refrain from stupidity.... not just in that situation but in MANY situations.
we have ALL of us been guilty of doing something truly fucking stupid at times.
however filming it, and making a commentary like the scrotum did makes him ballbag of the century.

Silva Wrote:I doubt any of those soldiers were even remotely hurt by those kids.

you sir i would suggest have never been hit by a brick or rock or even a large stone.
it hurts like fuck.. i CAN tell you it's hurts like a bastard and i still have the scar on the back of my head to prove it.
at that time in northern Ireland some "never been anywhere outside an office" cock-knocker in Whitehall said that to make soldiers look "less combative" as a gesture should wear their regimental head dress. (IE a parachute regiment beret in my case- not the most popular thing in the universe to wear over there), a half brick hit me on the back of the head and that FUCKING HURT and i had to get 10 stitches. however, even getting a hefty stones or brick whilst wearing kevlar can hurt like hell never mind if it hits you where there is not body/head armour.
again i stress i am by far not condoning what went on there.
but i can understand the feeling of getting someone back who is throwing shit at you that hurts like hell.
i'd still have the dicks up on a charge though.
however my time in the army is long past and since the, as i have said, i have grown and evolved as a person.
this doesn't mean i have forgotten how a soldiers mind works and is trained and conditioned to work.
BUT whether soldier or not , if someone threw some hefty stuff at you... you may get it into your head to give them a kicking.
anyways... my pennies worth

"blah blah blah - by the way did I mention I used to be a soldier"

[SiLVa]

(02-27-2011 03:34 AM)pax681 Wrote:  good post rsol.
i am an ex-squaddie.....(soldier) and have had rocks etc thrown at me in many and varying countries.
kinda like a cross continental rock-a-thon..lol

Well, I dont mean to offend but you probably deserved it.
Maybe not for anything you did per se, but just the fact that you're part of an occupying force makes you a part of the team responsible for a lot of the ills cause by the occupation. Something you may realize now, but not at the time that you were in uniform. You think perhaps that brick tossed your way made you think twice about what you were doing and why? If so then it could've a blessing in disguise eh? Maybe knocked some sense into ya?

(02-27-2011 03:34 AM)pax681 Wrote:  

Silva Wrote:I doubt any of those soldiers were even remotely hurt by those kids.

you sir i would suggest have never been hit by a brick or rock or even a large stone.
it hurts like fuck.. i CAN tell you it's hurts like a bastard and i still have the scar on the back of my head to prove it.

I have been hit by rocks actually. I'm also an avid paintball player. I cant say its much worse really between the two. When you get hit, it can hurt for a couple minutes, maybe even open up a cut but nothing as serious as getting hit with a bullet right? Count your blessings. It couldve been a lot worse.
I do see what you're trying to get across here though, however I cant justify their actions. Even put in their shoes, I cant see myself acting in that way towards a bunch of juveniles. In the real world, you cant just beat the shit out of kids just because theyre doing something you dont like. Any other profession that dealt with kids this would be severly scorned, but the fact that its soldiers its somehow defended or looked at as something that wasnt even that harsh. Why? because they have guns and couldve shot them instead?

Its true that it is an old video so Ive seen all the justifications and excuses for it but I still dont get it and it still bothers me that people, even here, would try to justify it. The whole "they couldve been shot" point being made like just because they didnt shoot them dead- that alone makes it okay to beat the shit out of them. I just dont quite understand that logic.

[pax681]

Silva Wrote:Well, I dont mean to offend but you probably deserved it.
Maybe not for anything you did per se, but just the fact that you're part of an occupying force makes you a part of the team responsible for a lot of the ills cause by the occupation. Something you may realize now, but not at the time that you were in uniform. You think perhaps that brick tossed your way made you think twice about what you were doing and why? If so then it could've a blessing in disguise eh? Maybe knocked some sense into ya?

in other words you did meran to offend and it's water of a ducks back bud.
erm... as i have explained before and will do so again...... just one last time.... i joined to at least get decent pay as i would have HAD to do national service in Italy but for a pittance of pay. thus i joined the british army where at least the money was better, and as i also said before, the army does not have a reputation of having 5 reverse gears on their vehicles.
it never occurred to me in my blatant naivety that i would even go to N.I and which i admit is pretty dumbass but hey, i hadn't even turned 18(17 years 6 months) when i joined. Technically it's part of the UK and thus we were NOT an occupying force.. albeit i DO see these days that westminster has no business interfering there as i see them having to business interfering in MY country.. see my sig for details.

None of us wanted to go... it was a scary as hell place to be in to be frank.
Also previously i have said i am a very different person now as i was then BUT i would never condone the actions of the guys in the video as i have also stated.
but i CAN understand the urge to go give them a slap as i HAVE been hit with half bricks and nail bombs, nearly got half my ass blown off at a certain fun run in 1988 where i was running to raise funds for moonbeams(children's cancer charity... gives them a last dream holiday before the children pass away)
been shot at more times than i can count and even was stabbed once through the side of my flack jacket.
as for blessing in disguise.. bollocks.. no it just hurt like hell and i did NOT appreciate it.

Silva Wrote:I have been hit by rocks actually. I'm also an avid paintball player. I cant say its much worse really between the two

what that tell me is you have been hit by pebbles or stones and by FAR nothing like a half brick or a rock.
there is absolutely NO COMPARISON POSSIBLE between a wee sting from paintballing and the kind of injuries i am talking about....
you sir are talking utter plop, as my Grandfather used to say you "open your mouth and let your belly rumble"

Silva Wrote:I do see what you're trying to get across here though, however I cant justify their actions. Even put in their shoes, I cant see myself acting in that way towards a bunch of juveniles. In the real world, you cant just beat the shit out of kids just because theyre doing something you dont like. Any other profession that dealt with kids this would be severly scorned, but the fact that its soldiers its somehow defended or looked at as something that wasnt even that harsh. Why? because they have guns and couldve shot them instead?

you truly have missed the point of my posts.. perhaps not read them properly.
let me quote me

Pax681 Wrote:those pricks should be identified,put up court martial and given maximum sentences(usually two years in Colchester MCTC when i was i the army) then serve out the rest of their sentence in a high security civilian prison.
and that moron shooting the video, he wants a good slapping

Pax681 Wrote:well i am an ex-soldier, been in a few wars here and there and i the one that anyone in my family is sent to for a chat and get told not to bother joining the armed services at all.
i explain why - the bullshit politics, the reasons behind the wars"money money money ....oil and money"
i personally NEVER pulled any shit like they did in that video and anyone under my command would have been up on charges before he landed after MY boot went up HIS arse.

pax681 Wrote:tbh i my opinion modern soldiers by FAR lack the proper discipline from the days when i was in.

pax681 Wrote:my opinion then is that the standard of recruit from the uk has dropped, the discipline given during and post basic training has dropped and there are many wankers in uniform that would probably be ASBO cases in civvie life if they were not in uniform.

i was by no means condoning what they did
was by no means excusing what they did.

Silva Wrote:Its true that it is an old video so Ive seen all the justifications and excuses for it but I still dont get it and it still bothers me that people, even here, would try to justify it. The whole "they couldve been shot" point being made like just because they didnt shoot them dead- that alone makes it okay to beat the shit out of them. I just dont quite understand that logic.

first time i had personally seen it and see my above quotes of what i said for me feeling on it, as in have them on charges.. jailed and dishonourable discharges.
i never excused them however i do understand the urge to slap someone who has bricked me, however the times it happened to ME I DID NOT ACT ON THAT URGE
none of the men i soldiered with did either.
i refer you to what i see as a lack of discipline and professionalism in the modern British army.
so erm... back to you.......

[SiLVa]

Hold on dude. I totally did understand you pax. Sorry for you not understanding me. I tend to say "you" when talking about people in general. So when I said "In the real world, you cant just beat the shit out of kids just because theyre doing something you dont like." I wasn't talking in the sense of blaming you. I think youre mistaken, my fault.
I wasn't meaning any offense either even if u think I did. It probably sounds harsh but thinking back as a kid I could totally see myself as anti-authority as I am, throwing rocks at soldiers from another country occupying my country.
I don't understand why people make excuses for other peoples' choices in life. Perhaps that's the attitude your picking up on. I was trying to be more specific to what rsol was posting that you cosigned. I'm fine with most of your post on this topic and I shouldve commented on that aspect but I was just trying to be clear that no matter what your personal experience, possible bias or not- I still can't see how this can be logically justified. Especially when the whole premise of most occupations is to "keep peace and security" or whatever the propaganda line of the day is. I'm not saying you are doing it, but people are always trying to justify stuff like that.
Of course, emotionally I could imagine wanting to smack someone for throwing rocks at me too. I get that. It doesn't mean it's okay to do it, imho. Which I do believe you agree.

[rsol]

look guys i think we can all agree this was "not nice" can we agree on that?

As far as the soldiers joining, i think its down to ignorance. hear me out soldiers.

Ignorance of politics, what is to happen to you. not knowing the full details of what awaits you in the job of soldiering.... thats the sort of people you were joining up with you.

NOW things have changed, the niave and selfless have options and choices. The only person left, with full knowledge of what they are and what they will be paid to do. the only guy who is going to go for a job like that??? well check your screens. Thats the difference between then and now. if a guy wants to join the army he KNOWS he is going to at some point be firing at another human being, not just the travel the world, learn new skills, good pay etc etc. its the killers who WANT jobs like that.

[pax681]

(03-01-2011 06:15 PM)rsol Wrote:  look guys i think we can all agree this was "not nice" can we agree on that?

that we can indeed

rsol Wrote:As far as the soldiers joining, i think its down to ignorance. hear me out soldiers.

Ignorance of politics, what is to happen to you. not knowing the full details of what awaits you in the job of soldiering.... thats the sort of people you were joining up with you.

in my day... absolutely , there was just no such access to the information available now to make a more informed judgement about it.

rsol Wrote:NOW things have changed, the niave and selfless have options and choices. The only person left, with full knowledge of what they are and what they will be paid to do. the only guy who is going to go for a job like that??? well check your screens. Thats the difference between then and now. if a guy wants to join the army he KNOWS he is going to at some point be firing at another human being, not just the travel the world, learn new skills, good pay etc etc. its the killers who WANT jobs like that.

again agreed.
seems like we have an army of ASBO's now with very few exception