Why Did God Create Atheists?

[mothandrust]

(07-13-2010 12:54 AM)hilly7 Wrote:  

(07-12-2010 11:31 AM)ultameca Wrote:  As for the parables that is interesting too, according to jesus as written in the bible, all the paribles were for the stupid people so they would not be saved. he only explained what he really meant in private to those he deemed worthy.

Actually you are wrong on that. Jesus spoke in parables so that those that claimed to be religious wouldn't know. The explanation was often given to those that the religious leaders would not have associated with.

that hit my spot too - although i'm perfectly happy to admit my stupidity - i fell out of love with christianity in my early teens when i saw the disparity between what Jesus taught in the plain simplicity of his parables, e.g. 'the good Samaritan', and the behaviour of those who claimed to be his closest adherents.

actions speak louder than words

the beauty of parables to my mind is that they paint pictures, which are far more difficult to pervert than mere words, e.g. "give unto Caesar", which is used to validate both the state and church, rather than smash the validity of both! i.e. "no man can serve two masters" - no middleman!

(although i'm not denying that Jesus had other teachings which the multitudes would have found incomprehensible.)

actually... the more i think about it the more ludicrous "for stupid people so they would not be saved" becomes. err... why? doesn't that defeat his very objective?

[hilly7]

I would imagine that if Jesus walked here now and did as He done then, the church figures would do the same as the last time. He would talk and tell parables that you and I could hear but the ones that favor themselves above the rest would not have a clue. He would be in places that they might go when nobody looks, but for a different purpose and talk with those they don't approve of. Already some of the leaders speak against the music like I posted and they are really pissed about the Christian Hard Rock. Even though the message is the same, just a bit more acoustical.

This guy I like. I actually feel we've a small thing in common. His 1st wife died of cancer.

[JazzRoc]

The question "Why Did God Create Atheists?" is a CATEGORY ERROR.

"God" is a MEME in the mind of Man.

It's the most DESTRUCTIVE meme in the mind of man because, like the physical nature of the universe itself, it follows the LOWEST ENERGY PATH (fear) to its conclusion, and it remains at that LOWEST ENERGY STATE (fearfulness) thereafter - unless some new additional energy joins the scene.
This "lowest common denominator" approach slips most easily into man's mind, and requires SOME EFFORT to dislodge it, partly because it's a subtle concoction of astrology, numerology, and pagan myth, which was what mostly passed off as the "science" of the time. It's deeply culturally-resonant. It's ENTROPIC.

In the Universe, events in general increase in ENTROPY: they progress towards disorder. Life rides this flow like a surfer on a wave, by a trick, and can increase ORDER (albeit in a tiny place, geographically) and KNOW the Universe. So I reckon that to know the Universe MUST BE my purpose in life, simply because I AM alive. It exists that I may know it.

Fortunately, we live in an age where we make many tools which expand our senses and understanding and knowledge of that very same universe. This IS riding the wave. And this expansion is happening. This expansion is itself an explosion of MEMES. All of these have to pass inspection by pre-existing memes, and that's the dissonance. Can you accept these threatening/comforting sentences worked out by stone-age scribes for peasants several thousand years ago, or must you get yourself a science education ?

But outside your head - in the real world - where is God, actually?

Just the artefacts, mac, just the ------- artefacts!

...and the MEME. The nightmare in your head. Of course... my favorite version is Anglican:

"Lovely music!" - "Did you meet the vicar the other day?"

Unless what was really meant by the questiion was "Why did the God meme create the Atheist meme?". er...

"Atheist" (of course) is merely a label for anyone who doesn't give the "God" meme house-room.

[mothandrust]

Hmm JR, all sounds a bit Dawkins to me.

actually i think you'll find things in the universe tend towards harmony, not entropy: evident in seashells, hurricans and galaxies. if you have your nose pushed in a Persian rug of course it looks like chaos. one needs to stand back to observe the bigger picture, something modern science is incapable of doing.

well, so i reckon

[hilly7]

Actually JR to place an A in front of the word means the opposite. If a Theist believes in God then by placing an A in front means the opposite. Then again, knowing that, to muse is to think, to Amuse is not to think. You seem to get amused a lot.

For you my friend this world is all there is, and so you "ride the wave" with fear of crashing, no different than those who wish to control the world... for this is it, all there is. For those of us who know different we get to ride the wave without fear of crashing, for we know this isn't all there is.

[mothandrust]

ain't that the truth

if things tend towards entropy how could cells, let alone coherent interaction of cells, ever have come about?

[hilly7]

Well it took a while but I finally found a non partisan article. I'll link it in it;s\'s entirety, a must read as were a lot of sites I went back to. Even though this one isn't the one I was looking to find again, it will have to do.

God creates people, people chose which god. Check this out from an article on Agenda 21, but please read the whole thing. I'm just doing clips here. It is at http://randysright.wordpress.com/2010/07...ffect-you/

Quote:Depopulation will be achieved through food restriction, agriculture restriction, regulation on food production, etc. In other words, these self-proclaimed elite rulers of mankind, these benevolent lovers of nature, propose to reduce the population of the earth by institutionalizing death for millions by mass starvation, plague, and the violence that will be the inevitable result.

In summary, this global contract (Agenda 21) binds governments around the world to the UN plan for changing the ways we live, eat, learn, and communicate – all under the noble banner of saving the earth. Its regulations would severely limit water, electricity, and transportation – even deny human access to our most treasured wilderness areas. If implemented, it would manage and monitor all lands and people. No one would be free from the watchful eye of the new global tracking and information system.

These plans are based on the concept: Never let a good crisis go to waste.

Agenda 21’s doomsday predictions are designed to excuse radical population reduction, oppressive lifestyle regulations, and a coercive return to earth-centered religions as the basis for environmental values and self-sustaining human settlements.

The main culprit is Judeo-Christian values. Chapter 12.2.3 states that:

“This world view is characterized by the denial of sacred attributes in nature, a characteristic that became firmly established about 2000 years ago with the Judeo-Christian-Islamic religious traditions.

“Eastern cultures with religious traditions such as Buddhism and Hinduism did not depart as drastically from the perspective of humans as members of a community of beings including other living and non-living elements.”

David Rockefeller said, “…now the world is more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supra-national sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in past centuries.”

In yet another, http://www.arewelivinginthelastdays.com/com/attack.html

Quote:Under the noble banner of saving the earth, the Agenda 21 program seeks to control governments around the world and sets forth an agenda that will control the way we all eat, learn, communicate, and live. Its regulations are designed to severely limit water, electricity and transportation as well as removing our access to our most beautiful state parks and wildlife areas. If implemented, the UN would manage and monitor all lands and people. No one would be immune from the all-seeing eye of the UN.

Even as this document is being written, we are being presented with a world crisis of epic proportions. One in which we will all suffer horrible fates if not acted upon in the next few days and weeks. Here’s an excerpt of the opening ceremonies of the UN Copenhagen Climate Change Meeting:

The Earth Charter

The Earth Charter is another control measure created by the United Nations in the same vein as Agenda 21. But whereas Agenda 21 works to have a one-world government under the false charade of a man-made global-warming crisis, The Earth Charter works more toward a one-world religion under the pretense of there being more than one way to Heaven in a Gaia based theology under the umbrella of environmentalism.

The Earth Charter can be downloaded by clicking here.

The Earth Charter was officially launched in 2000 with the help of former Soviet Union president Mikhail Gorbachev, Maurice Strong, president of the Earth Council alliance, and millionaire Steven Rockefeller. The plan is to disseminate the Earth Charter globally in schools and religious communities. Since 2000, the charter has been formally endorsed by thousands of individuals, including UNDESCO, IUCN and numerous Catholic women religious orders.

A close look at this document reveals the underlying principals of atheistic and secular humanism, paganism, socialism, authoritarianism, and other beliefs that are in direct conflict with Christianity and the Declaration of Independence as well as the Constitution of the United States of America.

Mikhail Gorbachev, Los Angeles Times, May 8, 1997:
"Do not do unto the environment of others what you do not want done to your own environment... My hope is that this Charter will be a kind of Ten Commandments, a 'Sermon on the Mount', that provides a guide for human behavior toward the environment in the next century.”

Maurice Strong, transcript of interview March 5, 1998, Earth Council:
“The real goal of the Earth Charter is that it will in fact become like the Ten Commandments."

Mikhail Gorbachev, PBS Charlie Rose Show, October 23, 1996:
“The cosmos is my god; nature is my god”

These facts you are reading are not based on conspiracy theories or zealot ideology. The founders and associates of the Earth Charter movement publicly acknowledge that they want to establish a new “global governance”.

“No nation state can exist any longer as a separate island capable of providing in isolation opportunity and security for its people. Local and global security can only be founded on the principles of global partnership and the sharing of sovereignty, leading to the creation of new systems of global governance.” Steven Rockefeller, Ecology, Religion, and Global Governance. Steven C. Rockefeller. Prepared for A Symposium on Religion and World Order, Sponsored by Global Education Associates, Maryknoll Center for Mission Research and Study, and Fordham University Institute on Religion and Culture. May 3-7, 1997

Quote:The “Arc of Hope” is intended to honor some of the world’s spiritual alternatives to Christianity. The ark’s carrying poles are “fashioned like unicorn horns which, according to legend, render evil ineffective.” The paintings on its side are of “indigenous symbolism celebrating Earth and all her living elements.” At least one Catholic women religious order has honored the ark by placing it in a Catholic chapel.

Yet from another site that I admittedly didn't read it all, but it sure grabbed my attention with the opening of it

Quote:To create a new religion, the NWO must first destroy or demonize the old religions. They must be shown as barbaric holdovers from the middle ages. This is currently being done.

# The Muslims are being painted as blood thirsty terrorists whose first duty is "Jihad" - meaning kill everyone who isn't a Muslim.

# The Catholic Church is being brought down through the pedophile priests.

# Jews are being painted a modern day Nazis.

While it appears as if different factions are involved in these attacks, in my humble opinion, all of these attacks are part of the 100 year plan which was drawn up by Cecil Rhodes' Round Table and its cohorts in the Fabian Socialists and other similar groups and people of that day. Today we label these groups and their modern day counterparts as the New World Order.

The 100 year plan for a NWO and a New World Religion, (NWR) includes the NWO version of Armageddon. This Armageddon takes place in the Middle East and at the moment, the forces of good and evil are being represented by the Palestinians (evil... if you are from the Christian right) and Israel (good). The 1984 version of Armageddon had Libya, Syria and the USSR as the "evil doers" and Israel and the United States as the "good guys". Depending on your political mindset, the "good" and the "evil" may be reversed. This doesn't matter, what matters is that one side is demonized by the other side to such an extant that one side doesn't even consider the other side to be human.

http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/arc...read=19716

I don't think God deserves a lot of credit with creating Atheists.

[persecuted in alberni]

God created humans not athiests and he wanted us to be free,free of religion,free of controll and so this is why he loves athiests too because they are being free to think freely and not be told what they MUST believe in.

God only created the human who grew to be smart enought to be free to think and believe as they see fit and this is the way god created us,assuming there really is a god that is.