Israel Seeks All Clear For Iran Air Strike

[WeThePeople]

From:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...24/wiran124.xml

Israel seeks all clear for Iran air strike
By Con Coughlin in Tel Aviv
Last Updated: 3:31pm GMT 24/02/2007

Israel is negotiating with the United States for permission to fly over Iraq as part of a plan to attack Iran's nuclear facilities, The Daily Telegraph can reveal.

To conduct surgical air strikes against Iran's nuclear programme, Israeli war planes would need to fly across Iraq. But to do so the Israeli military authorities in Tel Aviv need permission from the Pentagon.
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A senior Israeli defence official said negotiations were now underway between the two countries for the US-led coalition in Iraq to provide an "air corridor" in the event of the Israeli government deciding on unilateral military action to prevent Teheran developing nuclear weapons.

"We are planning for every eventuality, and sorting out issues such as these are crucially important," said the official, who asked not to be named.

"The only way to do this is to fly through US-controlled air space. If we don't sort these issues out now we could have a situation where American and Israeli war planes start shooting at each other."

As Iran continues to defy UN demands to stop producing material which could be used to build a nuclear bomb, Israel's military establishment is moving on to a war footing, with preparations now well under way for the Jewish state to launch air strikes against Teheran if diplomatic efforts fail to resolve the crisis.

The pace of military planning in Israel has accelerated markedly since the start of this year after Mossad, the Israeli intelligence service, provided a stark intelligence assessment that Iran, given the current rate of progress being made on its uranium enrichment programme, could have enough fissile material for a nuclear warhead by 2009.

Last week Ehud Olmert, the Israeli prime minister, announced that he had persuaded Meir Dagan, the head of Mossad for the past six years and one of Israel's leading experts on Iran's nuclear programme, to defer his retirement until at least the end of next year.

Mr Olmert has also given overall control of the military aspects of the Iran issue to Eliezer Shkedi, the head of the Israeli Air Force and a former F-16 fighter pilot.

The international community will increase the pressure on Iran when senior officials from the five permanent of the United Nations Security Council and Germany meet at an emergency summit to be held in London on Monday.

Iran ignored a UN deadline of last Wednesday to halt uranium enrichment. Officials will discuss arms controls and whether to cut back on the $25 billion-worth of export credits which are used by European companies to trade with Iran.

A high-ranking British source said: "There is a debate within the six countries on sanctions and economic measures."

British officials insist that this "incremental" approach of tightening the pressure on Iran is starting to turn opinion within Iran. One source said: "We are on the right track. There is time for diplomacy to take effect."

[Moriani]

More propaganda.

Israel doesn't intend to do anything. They want to sway public opinion in order to coerce the US into conducting the airstrikes for them.

The Israelis aren't capable of conducting airstrikes and couldn't handle a military disaster.

[Phil999]

pff, these are cowards. With their F-16's and in future with their F-35's, and with their sanctions and their double-standards, they think they might control the world, but they will fail.

[WeThePeople]

Quote:The Israelis aren't capable of conducting airstrikes and couldn't handle a military disaster.

They didn't have any trouble bombing and destroying Egyptian airfields and military installations during the "six day war", and if you had watched the BBC documentary Will Israel Bomb Iran you wouldn't have any doubt that Israel will strike Iran with or without US cooperation. Their prime minister and top defense officials see it as a matter of survival for the Israeli people that Iran not be allowed to have nuclear weapons. Watch the video.

[Moriani]

Quote:

Quote:The Israelis aren't capable of conducting airstrikes and couldn't handle a military disaster.

They didn't have any trouble bombing and destroying Egyptian airfields and military installations during the "six day war", and if you had watched the BBC documentary Will Israel Bomb Iran you wouldn't have any doubt that Israel will strike Iran with or without US cooperation. Their prime minister and top defense officials see it as a matter of survival for the Israeli people that Iran not be allowed to have nuclear weapons. Watch the video.

That isn't even the same thing.

You're going to use something that happened 40 years ago as an example?

Let's be clear on the concept: Israel can't do anything, not even run their own country, without substantial US military and financial assistance.

And please don't do something embarassingly silly like mention the attack on the reactor complex at Osirak.

The Israelis got satellite data from the US.
Iraq was not expecting to be attacked.
The US gave Israel the exact flight path with the least amount of exposure.
US military advisors in Iraq assisting with the war against Iran made sure Iraq's ADA radars were looking at Iran, not at Israel.
More importantly, Israel was able to overfly Saudi airspace without detection (it's 1981).
And finally, the reactor complex was only a 60 to 90 minute flight.

The circumstances now are not the same.

First, the Saudis now have extensive ADA radar coverage (both US and Russian made systems) over the northern 1/3 of their country. They also have two AWACs airborne at all times, one in the north and one in the south. You think the Saudis are going to let Israel just boogie through their airspace?

The other option would be to overfly Jordan or Syria. You don't think anyone would notice 42 aircraft (at least) flying through their air space?

And what about the Iraqi civilian and military air traffic controllers? The Kuwaitis aren't blind either and they have an AWACs airborne at all times.

Secondly, like you, the BBC is confused and doesn't understand the difference between an aircraft's range and its combat radius. They are not the same. An F-16 cannot fly from Israel to Iran without being refueled in-air at least twice. Sure, taking off from Iraq would help, but it would still require the use of drop tanks and in-air refueling. You don't think Iraqi civilians working on US air bases or living nearby wouldn't notice Israeli aircraft sitting on the tarmac getting refueled?

Third, unlike both the Egyptians and Iraq, Iran fully expects to be attacked and has taken measures to intensify preparedness. There's no element of suprise and the chances that the Iranians will be forewarned are extremely high, if not likely.

Fourth, neither Egypt nor Iraq were running combat air patrols, but Iran is and has been doing so religiously (yes a pun) for the last several years. At least twice in the last 3 years, patrols of 5 and 6 F-14 aircraft have been seen. Iranian defectors and other foreign intelligence services have stated that Iran has reverse engineered parts for the F-14 as well as for the Phoenix missiles, which have a range of 90 to 100 nautical miles.

Fifth, a fully loaded F-16 handles like a pig.
The first SAM or air-to-air missile and the pilot will have no choice but to jettison all ordnance and the drop tank in order to take evasive measures, or go down in flames. End of mission, at least for that aircraft.

Finally, Iranian ADA units are better than the Iraqis. Iraqi ADA sites were fixed, but Iranian sites are all mobile. Not only does Iran have the SA-6 system that the Serbs used to shoot down 2 stealth fighters, but they have an advanced system, plus even newer ADA systems (not to mention they still have 96 HAWK launchers and plenty of US HAWK missiles).

The Israelis are dumb, but not completely stupid. It's nothing but propaganda. The Israelis want to pressure the US or the US and other countries into taking action for them. It would be a disaster both militarily and in the PR department. Don't be suprised if after an attack Iran allows inspectors in to show that no weapons were being manufactured. That would pretty much screw Israel in world public opinion. You might want to consider that this might be Iran's intent, in order to get economic sanctions against Israel.

[proteinspill]

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[WeThePeople]

I hope you are right Moriani, but in view of the fact that there are warmongering madmen running the USA right now I think what will transpire is that that the US will open an air corridor for Israel to strike the first blow against Iran, and will then use Iran's certain retaliation as an excuse for the US to attack Iran (ie; "to support our allies." namely Israel). In this case I only expect Israel to be the "trigger" by being the first to bomb Iran but I do expect that Bush and cronies will use Israel as the excuse for the USA to ultimately attack Iran.

[WeThePeople]

Quote:I wish more posters were like moriani in their clear presentation of facts. But who needs logic on a conspiracy forum ;-)

I notice that both you are Mr. Morani are even newer members than I, and a quick review of Mr. Morani's posts this past month of his membership reveal a claim to special knowledge of "a variety of nuclear warheads and chemical munitions" and he seems to be using that "special knowledge" to discredit as many so called "conspiracy theories" as he can. Makes one wonder why he (and you) are here, doesn't it?

[proteinspill]

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[proteinspill]

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[Moriani]

Quote:I hope you are right Moriani, but in view of the fact that there are warmongering madmen running the USA right now

And they are because we have made it abundantly clear that we wish them to do so.

Americans believe they have been charged by god with the sacred task of using up every single resource on the planet as quickly as possible while denying others the same resources.

So long as that is the attitude of Americans, our government will continually go to war to ensure that we complete god's sacred task.

Quote:I think what will transpire is that that the US will open an air corridor for Israel to strike the first blow against Iran

That isn't possible. The most the US could do is allow Israel to take-off and land at bases in Iraq. That negates the need for in-air refueling, which would leave Israeli aircraft vulnerable to attack and use lots of time. However, it raises the question of how Israeli aircraft will get to Iraq in the first place without being detected by Saudi, Syrian, Jordanian, Kuwaiti or Iraqi radars. Someone suggested that the US could help Israel by reflagging US aircraft with the Israeli flag.

The Israelis do not have the element of suprise. The Israeli attack on the Iraqi reactor at Osirak was successful in part because Israel did not pubicly express concern about the reactor. The Iraqis had no clue. On the other hand, Iran and the whole world fully expect Israel and/or the US to attack and Iran is prepared.

The attack at Osirak was also successful because US military advisors based in Iraq made sure that Iraqi radar was either down for maintenance or looking at the Iranian border (the Iraq-Iran war was going on), plus the US gave Israel the exact flight path to take to avoid other radar and military units. The US has no control over Iranian radars and cannot provide the Israelis with a precise flight plan.

Quote:, and will then use Iran's certain retaliation as an excuse for the US to attack Iran (ie; "to support our allies." namely Israel).

Israel will not attack because the chances of failure are too great.

For each target Israel intends to destroy, a minimum of 6 ground attack aircraft are required. At least 8 fighter aircraft are required to escort the ground attack aircraft. That's still true even if Israel uses nuclear gravity bombs.

Israel has expressed public concern about 3 facilities. Assuming those facilities are attacked, that would require 3 separate sets of mission aircraft totaling 42 aircraft.

That leaves Israel out-numbered 3:1 to as much as 8:1 depending on the accuracy of the source you use.

In the 1973 Yom Kippur War, Israel sustained losses at a rate of 3:2 against the Egyptians and 3:1 against the Syrians and Jordanians.

Because the Iranians expect to be attacked and are watching their borders, any aircraft, US or Israeli will be immediately attacked.

An F-16 fully loaded for ground attack cannot out-run a HAWK, Ganef or Tor surface to air missile. The pilot would have to jettison his ordnance in order to take evasive action, or risk being hit and destroyed.

If the raid fails, it would be a public relations disaster for Israel. It's hard to detract from a winner, but people love to kick around a loser. A raid, successful or not will invite world criticism, but a failure would give countries the initiative to also levy economic sanctions. Don't be suprised to see news reports of French or Italian aircraft carriers moving to blockade Israeli ports.

Quote:In this case I only expect Israel to be the "trigger" by being the first to bomb Iran but I do expect that Bush and cronies will use Israel as the excuse for the USA to ultimately attack Iran.

I would expect the US to be the trigger. A false flag terrorist attack in the US or perhaps in Iraq, courtesy of the MEK but attributed to "Iranian terrorists."

Israel needs US carrier-based aircraft to move into Iran to neutralize Iranian air defense units, by using HARMs to destroyed ADA-based radars, and gain air superiority by destroying Iranian aircraft and air bases using sea or air launched cruise missiles and F-18s in ground attack configuration.

Once the US gains air superiority and rules the skies, it can do whatever it wants, attacking targets at will.

[Shinobi]

^ Go rambo , preach it rambo! yeah!

Quote:(WeThePeople @ Mar 11 2007, 12:36 PM) *

I hope you are right Moriani, but in view of the fact that there are warmongering madmen running the USA right now

Of course he's right! He's as Right wing as you can get!
not that it actually matters what wing he's on as he will distort everyting.

WeThePeople brilliant! Many many of us have picked up on this

proteinspill you call what you say logic then ?
who the fuck spat you out of hell ?

If I was absolutely paranoid I would say both proteinspunk & moriani juliani
would pass as DBS & Slavo....

Good job im a step ahead though!

[proteinspill]

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[SkeemerNYC]

Israel does have the capablity to do it.... The Russians sell junk to Iran nothing that actually works....
This whole Iran uprising is not a United States Conspiracy or anything....This is a Russian Conspiracy....

Israel did not recieve no information from the United States to bomb Iraq that a load of bullshit... Just for all of your information its vice a versa its the United States that recieves most of there Middle East intelligence from the Israelis.

Now...There will not be any need to get approval from the United States for a possible attack on Iran from Israel. Israel will have the support of the Arab Countries... With the start of Saudi Arabia.... Again just so you know it was Israel that helped the arab countries in 1982 Saddam would have never fired a nuclear bomb at Israel. It would be suicide. Saddam invaded Iran...Saddam invaded Kuwait... Saddam invaded Saudi Arabia.... If it werent for Israel he would of had alot more power in the middle east at that time and most likely he would not of been so easy to destroy in the Gulf War of 1991...

Now.. As of today it is the Gulf Countries that are also very scared of Iran... Iran has to import 40% of there oil.... They produce less than they consume... 60% of there GDP comes from OIL.... IRAN IS NOTHING...

Russia knew that they will never ever finish the Busher Power Plant... They just wanted money... Now they dont need it... All of a sudden Saudi Arabia starts buying weapons from the Russians?

IRAN ARE A BUNCH OF RADICAL IDIOTS... But they are not dumb enough to launch a Nuclear Attack at Israel... Israel probably has the third largest stockpile of Nuclear Weapons...