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Evidence Growing To Support Gm Crops Killing Off Honeybees
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04-26-2007, 10:52 PM
(This post was last modified: 04-26-2007 11:02 PM by Hei Hu Quan.)
Post: #1
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Evidence Growing To Support Gm Crops Killing Off Honeybees
This is a serious issue that is being deliberately suppressed from the public. Albert Einstein was quoted as saying "If the bee disappeared off the surface of the globe then man would only have four years of life left. No more bees, no more pollination, no more plants, no more animals, no more man.". If indeed the honeybees are dying off in massive numbers and I'll be able to personally verify this during the summer, this can easily come to pass. Which only makes the current emphasis and hysteria of global warming pale in comparison. We don't need a neo-feudal "Carbon-Tax" to fill the coffers of the IllumiNazis, nor do we need to ration out squares of toilet paper as the latest shill Sheryl Crowe is propagating. What we need instead is to take control of the means to put an end to this global piracy and destruction that use the globe as their toilet paper. By this I mean, we the consumers don't produce or control the mechanisms of production to use resources more intelligently or efficiently. We don't manufacture automobiles that run lock step with the contrived necessity for fossil fuels. We don't run mega-factories that produce filth, foul up the environment beyond measure, pimp the poor and dump illegal toxins surreptitiously all over the landscape. It is not us who flagrantly disregard laws and callously destroy the environment for profit, it is the corporations by and large. A plundering Carbon Tax set to squeeze blood from already dessicated stones, changing light bulbs and wiping our collective asses with one square per day is a running joke meant to further ass-down the suffering public. I notice that with all these panicked environmental measures that the onus is only on the masses and the discussion goes silent about countermeasures to curtail corporations who don't even pay their fair of tax extortion to the Federal Reserve bank... oops, I meant Treasury and I.R.S. So it exposes all this callow shit as just another game to rip-off the public and constrict freedom and assert control.
Gore the shilling jackass was in an office of power (relatively of course) and influence to do something concrete about his precious pet project, but instead was silent and contributed much to the contrary. Now he is the poster-boy, along with a few choice celebrities looking for some narcissistic face-time, to plug the latest scam of the IllumiNazis "Overhyped, Contrived and Marketed Global Warming". Whilst the largest tangible threat to the planet in the form of bio-engineered plants and organisms goes noticeably unchallenged. GM foods that are being forced and tested upon us with significant links directly to the rise of synthetic allergens, pesticides and God knows what all else. Ask yourselves this, how many people do you know with asthma of a specific allergy to something or other? How much have opportunistic respiratory infections arisen as a result of severely overloaded respiratory antigen activity? You don't know? Well neither does Monsanto, nor do they care one fuck as they invade organic crop after crop with their Round-Up Ready, 'Terminator' seeds and other genetically manipulated seeds, then have the balls to turn and sue the farmer, by claiming deliberate patent-infringement. This is by design and the impetus is for resource control. Control the food supply and you control the masses. Those of you who can, it's time to get back to basics and grow your own! Those who can't, organize with others who have the land and coordinate work with one another. Apologies for the diversion, here's a link that delineates the above topic. Link: Link Between Disappearing Bees & GM Crops Story: Link Between Disappearing Bees and GM Crops? Posted by Patrick on 14 Mar 2007 at 06:24 am | Tagged as: Getting Political, Food and Drink, Seeds, Science, Environment For some time now bee keepers in the US have noticed their bees have been disappearing, the so called Colony Collapse Disorder. Its hard to overstate the importance of this problem. The vast majority of our food crops are pollinated by insects, and quite simply without the insects there can be no harvest. Bees are among the most important pollinating insects. A Pennsylvania bee farmer has a theory why this is happening. He thinks its because of GM crops engineered to produce BT, a naturally occurring pesticide. I say naturally occurring, because its present in small quantities in the environment. In these GM crops however, its another story. Crops engineered to produce Bt do so in very large quantities. Its produced by every cell in the plant including roots, stems, leaves and flowers. Its also present in the pollen of these plants. The amount of Bt in these plants is enough to trigger allergies in some people, and irritate the skin and eyes of farmers who handle the crops. In India, when sheep were used to clear a field of left over BT cotton, several sheep died after eating it. Even if this farmers theory turns out not to be true, it should really serve as a wake up call. The genetic contamination from these GM crops has long ago left the fields where they were grown, and if it is necessary to clean it up, it could prove to be enormously difficult. GM contamination is after all the only self-replicating contamination human beings have ever released into the environment. And yet another article from Germany's Der Speigel: Link: Are GM Crops Killing Bees? Story: COLLAPSING COLONIES Are GM Crops Killing Bees? By Gunther Latsch A mysterious decimation of bee populations has German beekeepers worried, while a similar phenomenon in the United States is gradually assuming catastrophic proportions. The consequences for agriculture and the economy could be enormous. Is the mysterous decimation of bee populations in the US and Germany a result of GM crops? DDP Is the mysterous decimation of bee populations in the US and Germany a result of GM crops? Walter Haefeker is a man who is used to painting grim scenarios. He sits on the board of directors of the German Beekeepers Association (DBIB) and is vice president of the European Professional Beekeepers Association. And because griping is part of a lobbyist's trade, it is practically his professional duty to warn that "the very existence of beekeeping is at stake." The problem, says Haefeker, has a number of causes, one being the varroa mite, introduced from Asia, and another is the widespread practice in agriculture of spraying wildflowers with herbicides and practicing monoculture. Another possible cause, according to Haefeker, is the controversial and growing use of genetic engineering in agriculture. As far back as 2005, Haefeker ended an article he contributed to the journal Der Kritischer Agrarbericht (Critical Agricultural Report) with an Albert Einstein quote: "If the bee disappeared off the surface of the globe then man would only have four years of life left. No more bees, no more pollination, no more plants, no more animals, no more man." Mysterious events in recent months have suddenly made Einstein's apocalyptic vision seem all the more topical. For unknown reasons, bee populations throughout Germany are disappearing -- something that is so far only harming beekeepers. But the situation is different in the United States, where bees are dying in such dramatic numbers that the economic consequences could soon be dire. No one knows what is causing the bees to perish, but some experts believe that the large-scale use of genetically modified plants in the US could be a factor. Felix Kriechbaum, an official with a regional beekeepers' association in Bavaria, recently reported a decline of almost 12 percent in local bee populations. When "bee populations disappear without a trace," says Kriechbaum, it is difficult to investigate the causes, because "most bees don't die in the beehive." There are many diseases that can cause bees to lose their sense of orientation so they can no longer find their way back to their hives. Manfred Hederer, the president of the German Beekeepers Association, almost simultaneously reported a 25 percent drop in bee populations throughout Germany. In isolated cases, says Hederer, declines of up to 80 percent have been reported. He speculates that "a particular toxin, some agent with which we are not familiar," is killing the bees. Politicians, until now, have shown little concern for such warnings or the woes of beekeepers. Although apiarists have been given a chance to make their case -- for example in the run-up to the German cabinet's approval of a genetic engineering policy document by Minister of Agriculture Horst Seehofer in February -- their complaints are still largely ignored. Even when beekeepers actually go to court, as they recently did in a joint effort with the German chapter of the organic farming organization Demeter International and other groups to oppose the use of genetically modified corn plants, they can only dream of the sort of media attention environmental organizations like Greenpeace attract with their protests at test sites. But that could soon change. Since last November, the US has seen a decline in bee populations so dramatic that it eclipses all previous incidences of mass mortality. Beekeepers on the east coast of the United States complain that they have lost more than 70 percent of their stock since late last year, while the west coast has seen a decline of up to 60 percent. In an article in its business section in late February, the New York Times calculated the damage US agriculture would suffer if bees died out. Experts at Cornell University in upstate New York have estimated the value bees generate -- by pollinating fruit and vegetable plants, almond trees and animal feed like clover -- at more than $14 billion. Scientists call the mysterious phenomenon "Colony Collapse Disorder" (CCD), and it is fast turning into a national catastrophe of sorts. A number of universities and government agencies have formed a "CCD Working Group" to search for the causes of the calamity, but have so far come up empty-handed. But, like Dennis vanEngelsdorp, an apiarist with the Pennsylvania Department of Agriculture, they are already referring to the problem as a potential "AIDS for the bee industry." One thing is certain: Millions of bees have simply vanished. In most cases, all that's left in the hives are the doomed offspring. But dead bees are nowhere to be found -- neither in nor anywhere close to the hives. Diana Cox-Foster, a member of the CCD Working Group, told The Independent that researchers were "extremely alarmed," adding that the crisis "has the potential to devastate the US beekeeping industry." It is particularly worrisome, she said, that the bees' death is accompanied by a set of symptoms "which does not seem to match anything in the literature." In many cases, scientists have found evidence of almost all known bee viruses in the few surviving bees found in the hives after most have disappeared. Some had five or six infections at the same time and were infested with fungi -- a sign, experts say, that the insects' immune system may have collapsed. The scientists are also surprised that bees and other insects usually leave the abandoned hives untouched. Nearby bee populations or parasites would normally raid the honey and pollen stores of colonies that have died for other reasons, such as excessive winter cold. "This suggests that there is something toxic in the colony itself which is repelling them," says Cox-Foster. Walter Haefeker, the German beekeeping official, speculates that "besides a number of other factors," the fact that genetically modified, insect-resistant plants are now used in 40 percent of cornfields in the United States could be playing a role. The figure is much lower in Germany -- only 0.06 percent -- and most of that occurs in the eastern states of Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania and Brandenburg. Haefeker recently sent a researcher at the CCD Working Group some data from a bee study that he has long felt shows a possible connection between genetic engineering and diseases in bees. The study in question is a small research project conducted at the University of Jena from 2001 to 2004. The researchers examined the effects of pollen from a genetically modified maize variant called "BT corn" on bees. A gene from a soil bacterium had been inserted into the corn that enabled the plant to produce an agent that is toxic to insect pests. The study concluded that there was no evidence of a "toxic effect of BT corn on healthy honeybee populations." But when, by sheer chance, the bees used in the experiments were infested with a parasite, something eerie happened. According to the Jena study, a "significantly stronger decline in the number of bees" occurred among the insects that had been fed a highly concentrated BT poison feed. According to Hans-Hinrich Kaatz, a professor at the University of Halle in eastern Germany and the director of the study, the bacterial toxin in the genetically modified corn may have "altered the surface of the bee's intestines, sufficiently weakening the bees to allow the parasites to gain entry -- or perhaps it was the other way around. We don't know." Of course, the concentration of the toxin was ten times higher in the experiments than in normal BT corn pollen. In addition, the bee feed was administered over a relatively lengthy six-week period. Kaatz would have preferred to continue studying the phenomenon but lacked the necessary funding. "Those who have the money are not interested in this sort of research," says the professor, "and those who are interested don't have the money." "We Will Fight and Fight from This Generation to the Next" - Vietnamese People's Fighting Slogan Freedom Undefended is Freedom Unearned!
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04-26-2007, 11:08 PM
Post: #2
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Evidence Growing To Support Gm Crops Killing Off Honeybees
If you can control what the foods DNA make is made of, then you can control things in them that might kill and hurt curtian creatures, insects, well doesnt matter its a living thing you find a way to kill it haha. Messed up
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04-30-2007, 10:25 PM
Post: #3
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Evidence Growing To Support Gm Crops Killing Off Honeybees
mon santo crop surely doesn't need any honeybees to grow :err:
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04-30-2007, 11:24 PM
(This post was last modified: 04-30-2007 11:38 PM by SerialExpLain.)
Post: #4
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Evidence Growing To Support Gm Crops Killing Off Honeybees
Poor bees. Poor us.
If GM crops kill bees - they knew that. If GM crops kill us - they knew that too. AND: The Climate Change 'Agenda' is a scary one, because I do not believe for one moment that one part of it is a natural occurence. There very well may be climate change issues - MANMADE! And if they are stressing that as a basis for an agenda, then they have to PROVE it and if it is manmade...that is no problem for them then is it? What is happening in Australia is very sad, but take into account that there had been KNOWN tampering by nefarious groups totally documented in the material below. (Somewhere else, here maybe in secret societies there is a thread I had started with much more information on this topic than what is included below.) You think all these groups are dissimilar - WELL THEY ARE NOT. The parallels run through and through. Check out this information. Look at what comes up again and again, Shiva, Aleph, HAARP-type weather mod. Now think about what is presently going on in Australia. Think it is a natural occurence? I do not. http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2002AGUSM.U22A..01H http://www.copi.com/articles/guyatt/aumii.html Quote:Perhaps the most widespread of the arguments is a notion that the primary deity revered by Aum followers is Shiva, the Hindu deity symbolizing the power of destruction. The Aleph's Lord Shiva (also known as Samantabhadra, Kuntu-Zangpo, or Adi-Buddha) derives from Tibetan Vajrayana tradition and has no connection to the Hindu Shiva. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aum_Shinrikyo Quote:"Technology will make available, to the leaders of major nations, techniques for conducting secret warfare, of which only a bare minimum of the security forces need be appraised... [T]echniques of weather modification could be employed to produce prolonged periods of drought or storm." (Zbigniew Brzezinski, Former National Security Adviser, Between Two Ages, Greenwood Publishing Group, 1992) http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/JEF401A.html |
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05-01-2007, 12:08 AM
Post: #5
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Evidence Growing To Support Gm Crops Killing Off Honeybees
Good post, not much to add to that.
They're all evil in too many ways to count, but I can't think of a corporation that even compares to Monsanto. Who is the CEO of this beast anyway? We always here of the corporation, but never the names. Time to expose the actual players for a bit. Blessed [are] the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. Matt 5:9 KJV Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth? Gal 4:16 KJV &The most dangerous man,to any government,is the man who is able to think things out for himself... Almost inevitably,he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest,insane and intolerable.& -H.L Mencken |
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05-01-2007, 12:51 AM
Post: #6
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Evidence Growing To Support Gm Crops Killing Off Honeybees
Get a load of this nonsense:
Quote:Monsanto is an agricultural company. We apply innovation and technology to help farmers around the world be successful, produce healthier foods, better animal feeds and more fiber, while also reducing agriculture's impact on our environment. Yeah, read between the lines. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsanto http://www.monsanto.com/monsanto/layout/ab...ews_web_bio.asp We need to write Mr. Crews and let him know what we think. Send this to all the talking heads and have them talk about Mr. Crews and company. Blessed [are] the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. Matt 5:9 KJV Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth? Gal 4:16 KJV &The most dangerous man,to any government,is the man who is able to think things out for himself... Almost inevitably,he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest,insane and intolerable.& -H.L Mencken |
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05-01-2007, 02:28 AM
(This post was last modified: 05-01-2007 02:31 AM by Hei Hu Quan.)
Post: #7
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Evidence Growing To Support Gm Crops Killing Off Honeybees
Rockclimber, the Monsanto Roster of Monsters is:
![]() Chairman, President, and CEO Hugh Grant ![]() "Feast on my spores of death, useless eaters!" ![]() EVP and CFO Terrell K. (Terry) Crews "Dude, Where's my soul?" ![]() EVP and CTO Robert T. (Robb) Fraley "Honeybees? Fuck 'em we'll just engineer some more with pitbull DNA!" "We Will Fight and Fight from This Generation to the Next" - Vietnamese People's Fighting Slogan Freedom Undefended is Freedom Unearned!
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05-01-2007, 03:18 AM
(This post was last modified: 05-01-2007 04:30 AM by rockclimber.)
Post: #8
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Evidence Growing To Support Gm Crops Killing Off Honeybees
Thanks Hei,
Hugh Grant? Isn't he an actor? Man he got ugly and became evil. We should start an expose, and than send it to all the 'truthers' for posting. Let's shine the light on these 'evil ones' for a change. Any gamers? A lot of articulate writers here...let's put it to good use. We have 3-names and I'm sure there is some dirt behind the dirt and the dirtbags. Blessed [are] the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. Matt 5:9 KJV Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth? Gal 4:16 KJV &The most dangerous man,to any government,is the man who is able to think things out for himself... Almost inevitably,he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest,insane and intolerable.& -H.L Mencken |
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05-01-2007, 03:48 AM
(This post was last modified: 05-01-2007 03:52 AM by zion_brother.)
Post: #9
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Evidence Growing To Support Gm Crops Killing Off Honeybees
A portion of mankind is actively evil, another great portion of mankind is passively evil for it looks the other way when evil is perpetrated.
So to make a long story short, Mankind does not deserve many of the blessings that have been bestowed on this planet and its inhabitants. I hope both sides get cancer. EDIT : I changed my mind. Instead of cancer I hope they get : Necrotizing Fasciitis (Flesh-Eating Bacteria....yumeee) with no chance of recovery. Thank you for your attention. &...but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.& - Daniel 12:10 Yumee Torrents.
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05-01-2007, 05:59 AM
Post: #10
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Evidence Growing To Support Gm Crops Killing Off Honeybees
Check it out:
Source (with 13-other juicy pages): http://members.aye.net/~hippie/monsanto.htm MONSANTO CORPORATION Proof of Monsanto's Evil Is Readily Available All Over The Web - Spread Out . . So I Am Providing This Dedicated Site To Bring It All Together. For starters, consider the fact that Bush Sr. appointed Clarence Thomas, a Monsanto attorney, to the Supreme Court. Thomas cast a key vote in the decision that handed the White House to George Jr. How many Ex (?) Monsanto executives are now in the Bush's Cabinet? Answer: Currently (as of 8/5/01) there are five, all in regulatory power positions. 1. Linda Fisher, Deputy Director, EPA - ex V.P. Of Monsanto & chief lobbyist 2. Donald Rumsfeld, Sec. of Defense - ex Pres of Searle Pharmaceuticals, owned by Monsanto 3. John L. Henshaw, Asst. Sec. of Labor for OSHA - A 20-year veteran of Monsanto 4. Ann Veneman, Sec. of Agriculture - Bd. of Dir. Calgene Pharmaceuticals, owned by Monsanto 5. Mitch Daniels, Dir. of the Office of Management and Budget - V.P. Eli Lilly Pharm. So what's the tie-in between Daniels and Monsanto? Eli Lilly and Monsanto developed the genetically engineered bovine growth hormone. Lilly "owns" the European "franchise." Daniels presence insures that the bovine growth hormone will one day be approved for use in Europe. Note the following changes in job assignments: {Monsanto's History Within "Our" Government Goes Back Decades} * Marcia Hale, in early May, 1997, from asst. to the President of the United States for intergovernmental affairs to senior official with Monsanto Co. to coordinate public affairs and corporate strategy in the United Kingdom and Ireland. * L. Val Giddings, in mid-May, 1997, from biotechnology regulator at the United States Department of Agriculture (USDA/APHIS) to vice president of the Biotechnology Industry Organization. Mr. Giddings was at the first meeting of the Open-Ended Ad Hoc Working Group on a Biosafety Protocol as a member of the United States delegation; he attends the second meeting as the representative of Biotechnology Industry Organization. "Our" U.S.D.A. just approved "Terminator Technology" for Monsanto. (Aug. 3, 2001) Are you, dear reader, starting to see a "pattern" developing here? And I haven't begun on the oil & coal corporations control of "our" government yet. . . CorpWatch's Greenwash Award of the Month: Monsanto Let's see who's been through the Revolving Door of the Monsanto Corporation and "our" government. . . David W. Beier, ex-head of Government Affairs, Genentech, Inc., was Gore's chief domestic policy advisor Michael A. Friedman, M.D, ex acting commissioner of the FDA - Dept. of Health & Human Services, now senior V.P. for clinical affairs at G. D. Searle & Co., a pharmaceutical division of Monsanto. Michael (Mickey) Kantor, ex Secretary of the Dept. of Commerce, ex Trade Representative of the United States, a member of the OilSpace, Inc. Advisory Board, a partner at Mayer, Brown & Platt law firm, and now - a member of the board of directors of Monsanto. (Advisor Board of OilSpace, Inc.?!?) Josh King, ex director of production for White House events, now director of global communication in the Washington, D.C. office of Monsanto. Terry Medley, ex administrator of the Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service (APHIS) of the USDA, ex chair and vice-chair of the USDA's Biotechnology Council, ex member of the FDA food advisory committee, and now Director of Regulatory and External Affairs of Dupont Corporation's Agricultural Enterprise. Margaret Miller, former chemical laboratory supervisor for Monsanto, now Deputy Director of Human Food Safety and Consultative Services, New Animal Drug Evaluation Office, Center for Veterinary Medicine in the United States Food and Drug Administration (FDA). *(See note at end of this list) Michael Phillips, recently with the National Academy of Science Board on Agriculture, now the head of regulatory affairs, for the Biotechnology Industry Organization. (BIO), (See L. Val Giddings above) William D. Ruckelshaus, ex chief administrator of "our" EPA, now (and for the past 12 years) a member of the board of directors of Monsanto. Michael Taylor, ex legal advisor to the FDA's Bureau of Medical Devices and Bureau of Foods, later executive assistant to the Commissioner of the FDA, still later a partner at the law firm of King & Spaulding where he supervised a nine-lawyer group whose clients included Monsanto Agricultural Company, still later Deputy Commissioner for Policy at the FDA, and later with the law firm of King & Spaulding, now head of the Washington, D.C. office of Monsanto.*(See note at end of this list) Lidia Watrud, ex microbial biotechnology researcher at Monsanto in St. Louis, Missouri, now with the EPA's Environmental Effects Laboratory, Western Ecology Division. Jack Watson, ex chief of staff to the President of the United States, Jimmy Carter, now a staff lawyer with Monsanto in Washington, D.C. Clayton K. Yeutter, ex Secretary of the USDA, ex U.S. Trade Representative (who led the U.S. team in negotiating the U.S. Canada Free Trade Agreement and helped launch the Uruguay Round of the GATT negotiations), now a member of the board of directors of Mycogen Corporation, whose majority owner is Dow AgroSciences, a wholly owned subsidiary of The Dow Chemical Company. Larry Zeph, ex biologist in the Office of Prevention, Pesticides, and Toxic Substances, EPA, now Regulatory Science Manager at Pioneer Hi-Bred International. *(The note) Margaret Miller, Michael Taylor, and Suzanne Sechen (an FDA "primary reviewer for all rbST and other dairy drug production applications") were the subjects of a GAO investigation in 1994 for their role in the U.S. Food and Drug Administration's approval of Posilac, Monsanto's formulation of recombinant bovine growth hormone (rbST or rBGH). The GAO Office found "no conflicting financial interests with respect to the drug's approval" and only "one minor deviation from now superseded FDA regulations". (Quotations are from the 1994 GAO report). (Oh Yeah - Now I Feel Safer - Don't you?) IF you've gotten this far, don't stop - Now that you know the connections, read on and learn how "our representive" government has allowed you to become nothing more than a lab rat for this corporation, and its friends inside "our" government. Stephen King couldn't have created this horror-tale better. And believe me when I say. . . "It does not get better." Proof of Monsanto's Evil Is Readily Available All Over The Web - Spread Out . . So I Am Providing This Dedicated Site To Bring It All Together. Blessed [are] the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. Matt 5:9 KJV Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth? Gal 4:16 KJV &The most dangerous man,to any government,is the man who is able to think things out for himself... Almost inevitably,he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest,insane and intolerable.& -H.L Mencken |
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05-01-2007, 06:35 AM
Post: #11
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Evidence Growing To Support Gm Crops Killing Off Honeybees
Quote:A portion of mankind is actively evil, another great portion of mankind is passively evil for it looks the other way when evil is perpetrated. I love this post. I don't want to die early, but if justice requires that we all get wiped out then so be it. Screw peace - I want justice first. Thing is they've got the underground bunkers and the best resources. I personally often hope for the stray meteorite myself, or daydream about a rogue air force pilot and patriot who on his lunch break scrambles out of Ramstein for a mission over the next Bilderberg meeting. Lol, can you IMAGINE! ![]()
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05-01-2007, 04:36 PM
(This post was last modified: 05-01-2007 04:39 PM by Hei Hu Quan.)
Post: #12
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Evidence Growing To Support Gm Crops Killing Off Honeybees
Excellent work Rockclimber, very nice kick-off. I'll assist in anyway I can, working within the limitations of certain time constraints. I never commit to things and then fail to follow through, it's a personal credo.
Quote:Henry said: I love this post. I don't want to die early, but if justice requires that we all get wiped out then so be it. Screw peace - I want justice first. Justice dictates that we stand fast and fight for it like our freedom, I'm in total accord Henry. "We Will Fight and Fight from This Generation to the Next" - Vietnamese People's Fighting Slogan Freedom Undefended is Freedom Unearned!
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