Intepreting Jesus

[mothandrust]

<div align='center'>interpreting Jesus</div>



i like to keep an open mind about everything. keeping an open mind means i have to accept the possibility that Jesus was not actually a real person – maybe just an idea/belief system/ideology filtering through from the Far/Middle East and combining with pre-existing culture/ideology. personally, considering the upheavals and general disturbance in Palestine at this time, together with the rapid formation of Jesus cults of one form or another, i think Jesus is likely a real person.

in reality this is irrelevant, for the fact remains in the minds of Christians (and Muslims and Jews) he is a real person – with a real message. but what is that message?

we must of course accept that through history various people have attempted to manipulate the words attributed to Jesus to service their own agendas - “give unto Caesar” as validation for the state being perhaps the most prominent example. further, within the Bible there is a plethora of additional sayings and rules not attributable to Jesus which must not cloud our judgment.

Romans, Corinthians, Letters, Revelations... so much of it seems is to confuse or suppress, to generate fear and awe, but not understanding. so from this teaching i must retreat (no doubt there is a cornucopia of knowledge contained within but it is beyond my simple mind to fathom it, so i shall leave it to 'experts') i can find no sense, and instead turn directly to the words of (attributed to) Jesus, and how they play across my heart.

even Jesus seems to say a lot of things i'm not quite sure about – the parable of the tenants comes immediately to mind, and then there's the old chestnut “give unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and to God that which is God's” - which suggests, perhaps, validation for conceptual authority (beyond God), but when taken in conjunction with “no one can serve two masters, you cannot serve God and money”, suggests Jesus actually means, “the godless trinkets of Caesar must be returned to him”. what a conundrum!

let us then consider the Beatitudes

Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted.
Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the Earth.
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled.
Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called the sons of God.
Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

i'm getting a message here – something about being kind, respectful, honest, forgiving... would you not agree?

and, what's more, when i consider “the light within”, the messages in my own heart, i find confirmation that such behaviour is fitting to my notions of good – being good. further, i find the same messages repeated, over and over, from washing feet to “turning the other cheek” from “the beam in thine own eye” to “the good Samaritan” - Jesus appears eternally kind, eternally forgiving, eternally humble. and motivated not by wealth or security or power but Truth.

as one understands from the Bible, there is just one occasion when Jesus used physical force – as he threw the money changers from the Temple – he must have been really pissed. does this not speak volumes? (are they not the same people as own our world today?) remember, usury has always been a sin – even Rome condemned it (at least until the 19th century, when they learned what profits could be made) – and to Islam it's a sin worse than adultery. as if to confirm, his observation that “it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven” and his recommendation not to, “store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust consume and where thieves break in and steal” are unequivocal.

do i need to say any more? it seems i must have missed something cutting it all down to a page or so but it seems enough to frame/found my understanding of ethics and economics, at least at a personal level. what else do i need to know?

the messages appear patently obvious, as simple as anything could be, and understandable to even the most childlike of intellects. be kind, honest, respectful, forgiving. be compassionate and you will find reward. reward not in superficial trinkets of humanity or authority, which corrupt, but in spirit and understanding. quintessentially Jesus is saying “Love Life”, both the internal and external, for all its challenges, ironies, beauty and wonder and you will be rewarded.

beyond that i am at a loss, so many other messages appear confusing and contradictory or at best for my personal interpretation. but what i can say is, to my mind in the words of Jesus there is no validation for the state (as distinct from the church) or any hierarchical power beyond God (or the Creator, or Truth or Reason or however one wants to imagine the founding of life) nor validation of money or war or violence of any description or revenge, or justice – at least taking justice into ones own hands. these, all these are interpretations by people in positions of power in order to validate their objectives. and, without exception, in contradiction of Jesus' basic teaching – as are the motives and incentives of all our self proclaimed 'Christian' leaders.

<div align='center'>*</div>

no one can tell you what is beyond death. fact. perhaps it is nothingness, perhaps everlasting life, perhaps reincarnation, perhaps oneness with the whole... or something beyond my conceptual thinking but in essence i cannot change it. all i can do is approach it as my heart tells me, consulting Jesus (or Buddha, or Lao Tzu, or Confucius, or Marley – as their messages are all essentially the same) for guidance or inspiration in moments of crisis. God will take care of the rest.

[hilly7]

Actually death of the body isn't something to be feared. It's not what you think, not what your told. You will never be more alive then when the last breath comes, it's just getting there that's scarey.

[mothandrust]

Quote:Actually death of the body isn't something to be feared. It's not what you think, not what your told. You will never be more alive then when the last breath comes, it's just getting there that's scarey.

i never said death was anything to be feared, just approached in the correct way - 'the Tibetan book of the dead' is a good start for understanding that (and full of 'Christian' values) - and i can also recommend "the Tibetan book of living and dying" by Sogyal Rinpoche as a personal favourite ("the monk and the philosopher" is good too).

and it can't be what you think, can't be what you're told - it will be beyond any conceptualisation.

and not sure about the last breath thing - where on earth can that information have come from?

[hilly7]

Quote:

Quote:Actually death of the body isn't something to be feared. It's not what you think, not what your told. You will never be more alive then when the last breath comes, it's just getting there that's scarey.

i never said death was anything to be feared, just approached in the correct way - 'the Tibetan book of the dead' is a good start for understanding that (and full of 'Christian' values) - and i can also recommend "the Tibetan book of living and dying" by Sogyal Rinpoche as a personal favourite ("the monk and the philosopher" is good too).

and it can't be what you think, can't be what you're told - it will be beyond any conceptualisation.

and not sure about the last breath thing - where on earth can that information have come from?

I don't need a book on that one, been there. I had always heard the sting of death. I can't speak for others but I had no sting of death. It isn't at all what is told, or at least it wasn't for me, not what I expected. 05 was a weird year, at 44 (1-31-05) I suffered a major heart attack, by 7-1-05 I had a biopsy back from where two weeks before from a patch of hair loss (stress) was original reason but where a chemical burn on my legs looked weird came back a rare form of Non Hodgkin's Lymphoma (not cureable). That's what got me into the conspiracy thing except all I wanted after failed chemo was to find out why.
I'm not as smart as some on this board on some things but I read and learn. After dieing I need not read on that, that part I experienced. That by no means makes me charmed, lucky or special. My 06 resoultion was just to see another year. The leading up to death I was terrified, especially after seeing what I had done and thought and hadn't done correct. Luckily I wasn't judged as bad as I judged myself. I would rather have read it as experienced it, at least I wouldn't know what I'm missing.

[hilly7]

Newsweek is doing a story on NDE, they contacted me this past Wed. I'm still not sure what they will do to the story or if I'll let them release mine. There may be some weird people read it or I wonder if they will twist it.
There is a forum on death, actually 2. I went there for a while in search of information, to see what others had happen. There are some pretty interesting people there and some full of shit. It seems all have some things in common, some things different.

I can tell you one thing most have in common. Everything you've not only done but thought comes at you at light speed yet slow enough to comprehend ever small detail. Not like the Hollywood version. It is frightning to say the least, or it was for me. Then the things you should have done and didn't or took advantage of having like the people in your life. It was at that moment that I think I fought with everything I had and knew I was losing, so did everybody in the room and the observatory. I judged myself to Hell yet I was not judged as harshly as I had judged myself.

We'd like to think we will be reunited with loved ones and perhaps we will but even though I looked at my wife, knew her I had the same feelings for her as for everybody in both rooms. I could see their fear, their pain and yet I didn't comprehend why.

I never saw God or a light or a tunnel and that's what I went to the NDE boards to find out if anybody else had. I did feel the warmth and love and a completeness and perfection, not like we know here but perfection. It does change you forever. I wasn't a big chruch go'er before and still am not.

Here's a part you don't hear, you at one time feel cheated or betrayed when you come back. One minute you have the greatest gift ever, the next you don't. I compared it to a handful of gold taken and replaced with shit. You can read everything out there, talk to those who have been there and still not comprehend it. I can assure you that whatever pain my cancer causes, another heart attack or anything else the world can throw at me I want to one day be there again. The one thing I wrestled with was my faith and no matter what you call Him, there is a God, maybe just not the one you learn about. I didn't see Him, but I was in His presence.

[mothandrust]

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:Actually death of the body isn't something to be feared. It's not what you think, not what your told. You will never be more alive then when the last breath comes, it's just getting there that's scarey.

i never said death was anything to be feared, just approached in the correct way - 'the Tibetan book of the dead' is a good start for understanding that (and full of 'Christian' values) - and i can also recommend "the Tibetan book of living and dying" by Sogyal Rinpoche as a personal favourite ("the monk and the philosopher" is good too).

and it can't be what you think, can't be what you're told - it will be beyond any conceptualisation.

and not sure about the last breath thing - where on earth can that information have come from?

I don't need a book on that one, been there. I had always heard the sting of death. I can't speak for others but I had no sting of death. It isn't at all what is told, or at least it wasn't for me, not what I expected. 05 was a weird year, at 44 (1-31-05) I suffered a major heart attack, by 7-1-05 I had a biopsy back from where two weeks before from a patch of hair loss (stress) was original reason but where a chemical burn on my legs looked weird came back a rare form of Non Hodgkin's Lymphoma (not cureable). That's what got me into the conspiracy thing except all I wanted after failed chemo was to find out why.
I'm not as smart as some on this board on some things but I read and learn. After dieing I need not read on that, that part I experienced. That by no means makes me charmed, lucky or special. My 06 resoultion was just to see another year. The leading up to death I was terrified, especially after seeing what I had done and thought and hadn't done correct. Luckily I wasn't judged as bad as I judged myself. I would rather have read it as experienced it, at least I wouldn't know what I'm missing.

hilly, sorry for being slow with the response, got distracted, and i'm horribly forgetful.

i do not mean to be dismissive of your personal experience and thanks for sharing. but, nevertheless, it is your personal experience, no one else's and it was immediate and short term. what i mean by this is, even if such an experience were universal, it does not cover the eternity of death, you know, thousands, millions of years, eternity.

the point of my piece was not about what is beyond death, but how we approach it - and how basic and simple the instructions are - be they from Jesus or Buddha

[hilly7]

That is true. I do believe that life goes on, just not as we know it, not as we see it physically or live it physically. Maybe we would end up like the movie Powder?
As for the approach if I'm assuming the right up to it I was terrified, but I think I know what you mean.