A Question for Christians on God

[mothandrust]

respect Eire, and thanks for your comments. just wanted to say, before I consider your individual points, nothing I said was aimed at you personally. it was aimed at everyone and no-one, and undoubtedly influenced/infected by personal frustration. apologies that my points did not come across clearly – afraid I can be a bit guilty of forgetting my mind works and frames things differently to most others. I shall attempt to clarify...

EireWarrio Wrote:I agree i should have used a different term, sorry, but i am trying to figure this out. It's annoying me that i dont know who or what to believe anymore, espcially since i grew up with god in my heart, and loved the feeling of having someone to talk to when in need, but now i just feel stupid knowing i'm probibly just talking for my own ears to hear. if you know what i mean. I come across so many sites, videos, etc... which tell me it's the Sun god they worship not the Son of God or God himself. Tribes worship the Sun God in different names. Religon pray to only one God, why?

i think the term is OK, what would anyone else have used?

the term 'God' is representative. it represents a picture people create in their minds of that which explains everything beyond their understanding: Ultimate Truth (UT). However, most people forget this, or, through lack of confidence, choose to tie themselves to someone else's version of UT (God/Christianity, Allah/Islam, science (&money)/Western Enlightenment thinking (WET)... you know the list) and, in the process, lose sight of what their label actually stands for.

I don't think you should feel “annoyed” about not knowing what to believe, try feeling liberated. ignorance is bliss for sure, having one's own little cave in which to hide, but if you want to experience life at its fullest you must surrender that (false) security. ignorance is bliss, but it is also an absolute waste of life, you will die as ignorant as you were born.

Eire, the picture I get from you is one of an open minded, thoughtful person, who knows the difference between right and wrong, in their heart. and is probably profoundly disturbed by the lies and hypocrisy which govern hierarchical structures – church, state, economic, intellectual... man, I have been there, bought the t-shirt and eventually come to realise, all structures are corrupt, without exception. anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling themselves. the internet is full of people attempting to create and enhance their own power structures (here's mine: http://mothandrust.tk) they will have different labels, but in essence they are all selling you the same thing, their version of UT – which must be a lie, because it is their version of UT, not yours, or mine.

in this Postmodern world it seems fashionable even to question UT, I guess it's their prerogative (although to my mind, this disappears down the well of relativism), but it leads to the paradox: the UT is that there is no UT:confused:

EireWarrio Wrote:since i grew up with god in my heart, and loved the feeling of having someone to talk to when in need, but now i just feel stupid knowing i'm probibly just talking for my own ears to hear.

where does anyone speak to UT apart from in their heart, and head (and gut and Genitals)? sure, most (believe they) transfer that responsibility to some power structure (church, state...) which provides superficial comfort (confession, taxes) but it perpetuates their (my) ignorance, whilst at the same time masking UT. sounds to me like you've found a path to UT and just need a little confidence and belief. unfortunately you will not get confirmation from any power structure, because such undermines their validity.

quite simply Eire, if you know right from wrong, in your heart, then you already know there is a path (Dao) to UT, or God.

EireWarrio Wrote:pretend your deaf and blind for a moment, would you still believe he was real? like you do now.

”he”, come now:Dcan I still touch, taste, smell, feel, think? if so, it has to come from somewhere: UT.

EireWarrio Wrote:science does seem to have more proof that a 'god' is fiction based on astroligy, stars, sun, etc... Why dont we have substancal proof like that about 'God' to prove he does exist?

i'm not denying science goes some ways to explaining our world, I am (was) a computer engineer, I deal in logic (from logos word of God) science explains most of the systems WET has constructed for our entertainment (I couldn't be typing this to you now without it), but remember, humanity (as far as science can tell) has only had structured society for around 10,000 years – not even a blink of an eye in evolutionary time-scales. WET thinks man is so fucking smart, yet in reality, I suspect, we are no more than cavemen, and what we see as sophisticated 'enlightened' ideas/systems/mechanisms is one step removed from 'banging the rocks together'. this is never of course how they portray themselves and undoubtedly many believe their own arrogance (Richard Dawkins is a classic example) but look closely and you can see gaping holes in many of their foundations. I mean, they can't even measure a circle! and they don't even know if matter is particles or waves! wankers, arrogant wankers:D

EireWarrio Wrote:I'm not saying there right, I'm asking how do you know your right?

I know almost nothing, I cannot possibly be right. I do no more than offer a perspective, my perspective – which cannot be your perspective.

EireWarrio Wrote:I dont get it? Are you saying religon is bullshit? but God isnt?

yeah, sort of. although I wouldn't have used the term bullshit, and i'm not denying the essence of truth in religions (all of them), just the validity/impartiality/honesty of the interpreters/authors.

EireWarrio Wrote:If the answer is simple, why cant you tell me what that truth is then? why cant you say?

because dear Eire, my Truth cannot be your Truth, no matter how closely aligned they are. I take responsibility for my Truth alone – you find you own (follow neither shoe or gourd ('Life of Brian')).

EireWarrio Wrote:people can be manipulated to do some weird shit doesn't mean there 'bad' people just means they dont know or haven't been thought what you have.

'bad' is a value judgement. Buddha, Jesus, Rousseau, Marley... tell me to “judge not” (to remove the plank from my own eye). I love these guys and their views are foundational to my understanding, so (i try to) do as instructed. this does not mean there aren't weak, cowardly, selfish, mean, power hungry, ruthless, wicked people in the world (myself (on occasions) included).

(sorry, run out of quotes)

quote= me <span style="color:#FFFF66">"you could die laughing, if it wasn't so fucking tragic, pathetic."
quote= EireWarrior <span style="color:#33FF33">"Dont get this line? do you mean me, or in general. what's so pathetic?"

certainly not you. it was meant as a broadside against all structured religion. the point is, if you sat Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha, Lao Tzu, Rousseau, Marley... in a room together they would get on famously. no doubt over a pot of tea and a few spliffs they would find agreement in all areas of importance. it's not the prophets who are the problem, their messages are consistent. as I said previously, it's the authors and interpreters you need to be wary of.

quote= EireWarrior <span style="color:#33FF33">"Doesn't the bible teach us to question everything? correct me if im wrong."

maybe, I don't know. think you'll get a few different perspectives on that one. personally I prefer learning to being taught.

never thought you were "nit-picking". thanks again for the post.

big hugs,

j