A Question for Christians on God

[EireWarrior]

Quote:can't really believe anyone would ask such a question. in effect it ignores every religion barring the Sky-Godders. they may exist, but i know of no tribe, group, culture... which does not have belief in higher forces at its foundation. i guess you could perhaps see Western 'Enlightenment' thinking from this perspective, seeing as it has replaced God with science (and money) but that is to ignore its birth, which lies squarely between the bloodied thighs of Roman Christianity.

the problem here is the word God. it is pejorative and obscures true meaning, just as all labels: God, Allah, Yahweh... Christianity, Islam, Buddhism... they are rocks to hide behind, and stones to throw at ignorance: both your own, and that of others.

forget for one moment your fear and remember, words, labels, are no more than squiggles on paper or pixels on a screen. they cannot be God &c. the best they can do is represent God &c. so what does 'God' represent?

the answer is simple, and can be denied by no one: 'God' is Truth, ultimate Truth. what that Truth might be is not for me to say. all i can attempt is to bring my personal Truth closer to the ultimate, through my 'God given' talents and lessons learned along my path, or Dao.

Truth be told i am the most ignorant of all men, i know almost nothing about almost everything. but, what i do know, is that whether it is Shiva (lord of dance and drugs, who spends his time stoned and makes love for 10,000 years at a stretch) or Jesus (or Confucius, Lao Tzu, Buddha...) their message is consistent: TREAT OTHER WITH RESPECT. really, it is so fucking simple. so how come so many people forget?

they become so rapped in their messenger they entirely forget the message! you could die laughing, if it wasn't so fucking tragic, pathetic.

big hugs,

j

I agree i should have used a different term, sorry, but i am trying to figure this out. It's annoying me that i dont know who or what to believe anymore, espcially since i grew up with god in my heart, and loved the feeling of having someone to talk to when in need, but now i just feel stupid knowing i'm probibly just talking for my own ears to hear. if you know what i mean. I come across so many sites, videos, etc... which tell me it's the Sun god they worship not the Son of God or God himself. Tribes worship the Sun God in different names. Religon pray to only one God, why?

Quote:can't really believe anyone would ask such a question.

What i meant was, if nobody thought you or anyone else about God or even you were never to hear of him, pretend your deaf and blind for a moment, would you still believe he was real? like you do now.

Quote:in effect it ignores every religion

I meant to invole every religon in that question. just didnt word it right. I'm shite at typing what i do mean to say which is why i tend not to post to often.

Quote:i guess you could perhaps see Western 'Enlightenment' thinking from this perspective, seeing as it has replaced God with science

That's exactly my point science does seem to have more proof that a 'god' is fiction based on astroligy, stars, sun, etc... Why dont we have substancal proof like that about 'God' to prove he does exist?

I'm not saying there right, I'm asking how do you know your right?

Quote:the problem here is the word God. it is pejorative and obscures true meaning, just as all labels: God, Allah, Yahweh... Christianity, Islam, Buddhism... they are rocks to hide behind, and stones to throw at ignorance: both your own, and that of others.

I dont get it? Are you saying religon is bullshit? but God isnt?
I'm sorry if im misunderstanding you, but i dont get the paragraph.

Quote:so what does 'God' represent? the answer is simple, and can be denied by no one: 'God' is Truth, ultimate Truth. what that Truth might be is not for me to say.

If the answer is simple, why cant you tell me what that truth is then? why cant you say?

Quote:TREAT OTHER WITH RESPECT. really, it is so fucking simple. so how come so many people forget?

Simple, different religious beliefs, mind control, etc, dude your in the conspiracy forum, people can be manipulated to do some weird shit doesn't mean there 'bad' people just means they dont know or haven't been thought what you have.

Quote:you could die laughing, if it wasn't so fucking tragic, pathetic.

Dont get this line? do you mean me, or in general. what's so pathetic?

Doesn't the bible teach us to question everything? correct me if im wrong.

I'm seriously not 'nit-picking' here i really do want to know your answers plz

Peace Eire.

[psilocybin]

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Having no God, is that really good?

A better question is whether it's bad... and it works great for me. It's the only way the world works correctly in my mind. A conclusion I came to a real long time ago. I'm not empty or devoid of emotions.

Unbelieving is a bullshit word. You aren't right, I'm not right. My position is actually more open, even though I don't believe in a religion or a deity, it doesn't mean I've shut down all roads. I just have given up on the bullshit ones IMO.

And I don't have a god, so please don't lay anymore of that shit on me. You have no way to know you're right, and you are the one making a belief decision. I'm not prescribing to anything offered up yet. It's like if I believed that the local news was telling me the straight line or don't. By blindly accepting things and using faith you alienate logic, which is the best tool humans have.

That's just it my friend, I am not assuming. There is a lot of bullshit in religion these days, but not in God. We all worship something, being self, money, possessions, shills, or gods. The smart ones being honest with themselves know it. I'm not saying you are a bad person if you don't believe, I know many that don't but are good people, and I know plenty that do believe that aren't. It's more than placing just a bumper sticker on the car, or wearing jewelry. I don't accept faith blindly, seeing is believing, not in the figurative sense but literal one. Lucky for me, I get another chance, that's called Grace, I did not deserve it, but glad I got it. There is not a lot you can do wrong that I haven't. Not that I was a bad person, I just wasn't the one to piss off, or girls brought home to meet the parents. Not all of us take faith blindly, some have to be shown, and then logic becomes illogical, and the opposite. But that is your choice. There is no way I damn you for that, I got enough of my own faults to damn.

How can you not be assuming if you believe in something without absolute proof.... answer that.



As for the NWO being written about in the bible... The Holy Roman Catholic Church had a stranglehold on the bible for 600 years... It's a flawed and altered document. It was the mainstay of the most oppressive force to control the planet in the last 2000 years.

I have absolute proof, that my friend is what I am saying, I do not assume on God. Death opens eyes, or what we call death here on earth. While it brings about new questions, it also answers many questions. Most assume, for some of us, it's a bit different.

As for the Roman Catholic Church, I'm not Catholic and I do not know their doctrine. Some that I see does seek to control, some does not. I do not think it is so much the Bible as it is those that teach what they think it means.

So you're dead?

Not anymore. Not by choice either.

Oh you had an NDE... no to trivialize your NDE, but were you clinically brain dead? did you talk to god personally?

Have you ever read any of Strassman's theories regarding DMT and NDE?

Basically specify what absolute proof you came into contact with.

[hilly7]

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Having no God, is that really good?

A better question is whether it's bad... and it works great for me. It's the only way the world works correctly in my mind. A conclusion I came to a real long time ago. I'm not empty or devoid of emotions.

Unbelieving is a bullshit word. You aren't right, I'm not right. My position is actually more open, even though I don't believe in a religion or a deity, it doesn't mean I've shut down all roads. I just have given up on the bullshit ones IMO.

And I don't have a god, so please don't lay anymore of that shit on me. You have no way to know you're right, and you are the one making a belief decision. I'm not prescribing to anything offered up yet. It's like if I believed that the local news was telling me the straight line or don't. By blindly accepting things and using faith you alienate logic, which is the best tool humans have.

That's just it my friend, I am not assuming. There is a lot of bullshit in religion these days, but not in God. We all worship something, being self, money, possessions, shills, or gods. The smart ones being honest with themselves know it. I'm not saying you are a bad person if you don't believe, I know many that don't but are good people, and I know plenty that do believe that aren't. It's more than placing just a bumper sticker on the car, or wearing jewelry. I don't accept faith blindly, seeing is believing, not in the figurative sense but literal one. Lucky for me, I get another chance, that's called Grace, I did not deserve it, but glad I got it. There is not a lot you can do wrong that I haven't. Not that I was a bad person, I just wasn't the one to piss off, or girls brought home to meet the parents. Not all of us take faith blindly, some have to be shown, and then logic becomes illogical, and the opposite. But that is your choice. There is no way I damn you for that, I got enough of my own faults to damn.

How can you not be assuming if you believe in something without absolute proof.... answer that.



As for the NWO being written about in the bible... The Holy Roman Catholic Church had a stranglehold on the bible for 600 years... It's a flawed and altered document. It was the mainstay of the most oppressive force to control the planet in the last 2000 years.

I have absolute proof, that my friend is what I am saying, I do not assume on God. Death opens eyes, or what we call death here on earth. While it brings about new questions, it also answers many questions. Most assume, for some of us, it's a bit different.

As for the Roman Catholic Church, I'm not Catholic and I do not know their doctrine. Some that I see does seek to control, some does not. I do not think it is so much the Bible as it is those that teach what they think it means.

So you're dead?

Not anymore. Not by choice either.

Oh you had an NDE... no to trivialize your NDE, but were you clinically brain dead? did you talk to god personally?

Have you ever read any of Strassman's theories regarding DMT and NDE?

Basically specify what absolute proof you came into contact with.

Yes I was. Now you are speaking in worldly terms. There is a language, different than any here. We spoke in that language.

No, I have to admit, I never heard of that, unless it is where they think the brain releases chemicals. I have heard some about that, but it lacks explination of the side effects of coming back. Actually, it lacks even the experience explination.

I only came in contact with the Light of God, the presence of Him. I never saw God, I personally did not speak to God, I was quite content to just be in His Light. The proof I have is what remains inside, and what others react to face to face. You know when you are in His presence. You also learn some of man's fallacies in knowing God. Althgough, once back, you once again love and speak as a mortal, think like a mortal, and question like a mortal, when you are there, you do not. I have never felt that good, perfect, peaceful, that much loved, and accepted. Not before, or afterwards, especially afterwords. The fear you have is gone.

If you want to know more, PM me and I'll send you to a link of a text, maybe it will help you understand.

[psilocybin]

I read the article and can see where you are coming from... nonetheless, it doesn't convince me... what if the light was a collective rather than a god? All this does is make me ask more questions. I can't say I've had an experience like that, so I'm at a loss to try to really understand it.

[EireWarrior]

Quote:This premise of god as an image of omnipotence is very hard to prove. Since we haven't defined the meaning of "God" in the basis of the question, it must be assumed that the poll refers to our common "image" of God... a being, a literal male creator, an omnipotent ruler who sits on a throne and passes judgment, the creator of divine law who ultimately judges whether we burn in hell or we go to heaven... So the point of the question is to polarize us into a literal division.

When our reason is confronted with the image, we become polarized into thinking of the omnipotent god as either as a ridiculous lie, or the absolute truth and fundamental answer. But they are two sides of the same coin, they are in fact the same answer. Facing God as a provable "fact" leaves us with three "polarized" choices... theist, atheist, agnostic... While they might seem like separate choices, the opposites and middle ground are all one... they are one, a poll with a top, a bottom and a middle, all connected, but none of them are completely satisfying.

So, the real question is, is there an alternative to the poll... can you know God without conforming to options presented in the poll? The answer is YES. If God isn't an image, but an abstract truth, you don't need to prove anything. You simply know.

But how can we prove it, prove the invisible exists? We can't if we are are simply looking and using our eyes to try and prove a fact. To see of the spirit, we have to see with our heart. We have been taught to look and not to see. But it's not that hard... in fact its natural. And when we remember that, we start to see the movements of the spirit as an energetic fact, instead of trying to prove or disprove an image...

God as the creator is an image... it is the demigod, the demiurge, the human image of ruler. The true God is always in the imagination, embodied by Us. So the existence of the spirit of god is not something to prove, it is something we know by knowing ourselves.

We don't believe... We know.

We are the invisible movements of The Spirit

Found this below quote from Chris while I was reading the other posts about 'god'

I must say I agree fully with this quote.

God is an image created by man. I dont believe god to be a man nor jesus a man, but i do believe there is more than meets the eye.

I enjoyed this quote, I had thoughts myself but didnt know if I was right, Chris answered them for me.

I'm done. I know the bible and others were all created for a story, but i somehow do feel we all have our own "god" we believe in and we all have our own beliefs.

Let others find there god, dont force yours onto them. peace.

Quote:The true God is always in the imagination, embodied by Us. So the existence of the spirit of god is not something to prove, it is something we know by knowing ourselves.

We don't believe... We know.

ED: I really feel that verse

[mothandrust]

respect Eire, and thanks for your comments. just wanted to say, before I consider your individual points, nothing I said was aimed at you personally. it was aimed at everyone and no-one, and undoubtedly influenced/infected by personal frustration. apologies that my points did not come across clearly – afraid I can be a bit guilty of forgetting my mind works and frames things differently to most others. I shall attempt to clarify...

EireWarrio Wrote:I agree i should have used a different term, sorry, but i am trying to figure this out. It's annoying me that i dont know who or what to believe anymore, espcially since i grew up with god in my heart, and loved the feeling of having someone to talk to when in need, but now i just feel stupid knowing i'm probibly just talking for my own ears to hear. if you know what i mean. I come across so many sites, videos, etc... which tell me it's the Sun god they worship not the Son of God or God himself. Tribes worship the Sun God in different names. Religon pray to only one God, why?

i think the term is OK, what would anyone else have used?

the term 'God' is representative. it represents a picture people create in their minds of that which explains everything beyond their understanding: Ultimate Truth (UT). However, most people forget this, or, through lack of confidence, choose to tie themselves to someone else's version of UT (God/Christianity, Allah/Islam, science (&money)/Western Enlightenment thinking (WET)... you know the list) and, in the process, lose sight of what their label actually stands for.

I don't think you should feel “annoyed” about not knowing what to believe, try feeling liberated. ignorance is bliss for sure, having one's own little cave in which to hide, but if you want to experience life at its fullest you must surrender that (false) security. ignorance is bliss, but it is also an absolute waste of life, you will die as ignorant as you were born.

Eire, the picture I get from you is one of an open minded, thoughtful person, who knows the difference between right and wrong, in their heart. and is probably profoundly disturbed by the lies and hypocrisy which govern hierarchical structures – church, state, economic, intellectual... man, I have been there, bought the t-shirt and eventually come to realise, all structures are corrupt, without exception. anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling themselves. the internet is full of people attempting to create and enhance their own power structures (here's mine: http://mothandrust.tk) they will have different labels, but in essence they are all selling you the same thing, their version of UT – which must be a lie, because it is their version of UT, not yours, or mine.

in this Postmodern world it seems fashionable even to question UT, I guess it's their prerogative (although to my mind, this disappears down the well of relativism), but it leads to the paradox: the UT is that there is no UT:confused:

EireWarrio Wrote:since i grew up with god in my heart, and loved the feeling of having someone to talk to when in need, but now i just feel stupid knowing i'm probibly just talking for my own ears to hear.

where does anyone speak to UT apart from in their heart, and head (and gut and Genitals)? sure, most (believe they) transfer that responsibility to some power structure (church, state...) which provides superficial comfort (confession, taxes) but it perpetuates their (my) ignorance, whilst at the same time masking UT. sounds to me like you've found a path to UT and just need a little confidence and belief. unfortunately you will not get confirmation from any power structure, because such undermines their validity.

quite simply Eire, if you know right from wrong, in your heart, then you already know there is a path (Dao) to UT, or God.

EireWarrio Wrote:pretend your deaf and blind for a moment, would you still believe he was real? like you do now.

”he”, come now:Dcan I still touch, taste, smell, feel, think? if so, it has to come from somewhere: UT.

EireWarrio Wrote:science does seem to have more proof that a 'god' is fiction based on astroligy, stars, sun, etc... Why dont we have substancal proof like that about 'God' to prove he does exist?

i'm not denying science goes some ways to explaining our world, I am (was) a computer engineer, I deal in logic (from logos word of God) science explains most of the systems WET has constructed for our entertainment (I couldn't be typing this to you now without it), but remember, humanity (as far as science can tell) has only had structured society for around 10,000 years – not even a blink of an eye in evolutionary time-scales. WET thinks man is so fucking smart, yet in reality, I suspect, we are no more than cavemen, and what we see as sophisticated 'enlightened' ideas/systems/mechanisms is one step removed from 'banging the rocks together'. this is never of course how they portray themselves and undoubtedly many believe their own arrogance (Richard Dawkins is a classic example) but look closely and you can see gaping holes in many of their foundations. I mean, they can't even measure a circle! and they don't even know if matter is particles or waves! wankers, arrogant wankers:D

EireWarrio Wrote:I'm not saying there right, I'm asking how do you know your right?

I know almost nothing, I cannot possibly be right. I do no more than offer a perspective, my perspective – which cannot be your perspective.

EireWarrio Wrote:I dont get it? Are you saying religon is bullshit? but God isnt?

yeah, sort of. although I wouldn't have used the term bullshit, and i'm not denying the essence of truth in religions (all of them), just the validity/impartiality/honesty of the interpreters/authors.

EireWarrio Wrote:If the answer is simple, why cant you tell me what that truth is then? why cant you say?

because dear Eire, my Truth cannot be your Truth, no matter how closely aligned they are. I take responsibility for my Truth alone – you find you own (follow neither shoe or gourd ('Life of Brian')).

EireWarrio Wrote:people can be manipulated to do some weird shit doesn't mean there 'bad' people just means they dont know or haven't been thought what you have.

'bad' is a value judgement. Buddha, Jesus, Rousseau, Marley... tell me to “judge not” (to remove the plank from my own eye). I love these guys and their views are foundational to my understanding, so (i try to) do as instructed. this does not mean there aren't weak, cowardly, selfish, mean, power hungry, ruthless, wicked people in the world (myself (on occasions) included).

(sorry, run out of quotes)

quote= me <span style="color:#FFFF66">"you could die laughing, if it wasn't so fucking tragic, pathetic."
quote= EireWarrior <span style="color:#33FF33">"Dont get this line? do you mean me, or in general. what's so pathetic?"

certainly not you. it was meant as a broadside against all structured religion. the point is, if you sat Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha, Lao Tzu, Rousseau, Marley... in a room together they would get on famously. no doubt over a pot of tea and a few spliffs they would find agreement in all areas of importance. it's not the prophets who are the problem, their messages are consistent. as I said previously, it's the authors and interpreters you need to be wary of.

quote= EireWarrior <span style="color:#33FF33">"Doesn't the bible teach us to question everything? correct me if im wrong."

maybe, I don't know. think you'll get a few different perspectives on that one. personally I prefer learning to being taught.

never thought you were "nit-picking". thanks again for the post.

big hugs,

j

[hilly7]

Quote:I read the article and can see where you are coming from... nonetheless, it doesn't convince me... what if the light was a collective rather than a god? All this does is make me ask more questions. I can't say I've had an experience like that, so I'm at a loss to try to really understand it.

Well, don't feel alone, I am at a loss to explain it as well. Imagine the greatest thing ever ... and there are no words for explination. I'm just telling you what I know, not trying to convert or pervert you. At the time, if someone had said to me what these and myself says, I don't know if I would have listened either.

The Light wasn't collective, it was dominate and stands solo. I don't know to what extent He judges us, but I do know that we judge others more harshly. Imagine the whole universe of truth, kindness, compassion, love, power, and more, all in one place, that is what I call God, but others call Him different names. I noticed that one name mentioned here is Ultimate Truth. I don't even know if He is a He, and really, it doesn't matter.

It's not God at fault, it's man. It's a little hard to picture, especially when someone has some kind of symbol on their body or car saying one thing, yet acting another. It's kinda like words, there are offensive words to society, but most of what we call curse words are really not. It is out of respect that we refrain from saying them. I ocassionally read the Bible, and where one sees one thing, another sees something different. One will focus on Jesus saying give to Cesar what is Cesars as submission, while another focuses on what is of earthy matter, doesn't matter. Nature's fury teaches us that.

There are good lessons to learn in many religious scripts. On the NDE board, we sometimes discuss religious writings, seldom, but sometimes. There are many things that all have in common, and some different, but all have One Truth, Light, or whatever name one wishes to call.

There is, in each of us a little voice inside, that if listened to, can be heard. Unfortunately, also in each of us is another voice, one that says do what you will, it's all up to you what is good or bad. Then there are voises that are physically heard, some speak the truth, while others do not. There is evil in many churches, and there are good churches in some as well, just as people, for people are what makes a church. One only needs to listen to the faint voice that may have just one reason verses the voice with many reasons to know what is contrived by man, and what is contrived by God.

NDErs do not have all the answers, maybe more questions if anything. The one question however answered is if there is a God. The motives of some that say they are from God, is another question, like life, some are real, some are not. The only difference is, we can tell pretty easily.

[SerialExpLain]

Yes, a true Christian identifies with Jesus as being Savior. Nothing short of that. Saved by the bloodshed as a one time atonement.

Not the light and being self absorbed in delusions of how wonderful an individual you are, can be, will be.

That is the Gnostic lie. Which is extremely dualistic. And the practioners know that. Hence, they come on strong with the pseudo-love & light crap.

Truth be told they are totally immersed in their delusions and ego and this crap is all that is available 24/7 after 9/11 in the USA this EURO-GNOSTIC trip.:barf: Just Smirk at the takeover and be done with it. It is the Equinox of the Psychopath. The GNOSTIC EQUINOX OF THE PSYCHOPATH. So, talk about your secrets and don't say a thing about Christianity. Because Christians do not worship "THE LIGHT".

And if it wasn't a big old Tavi stock production, Christians would be free to be Christians, but that is not the case. However, all the re-write's of the Bible into Gnostic flavor are so obvious.:barf: Worship "the light within" SELF. All roads lead to self = Gnostic. There is no white or black. Just grey goo in that reality and certainly has nothing at all to do with being Christian.

[mastermg]

Eire, dont lose hope in finding answers to the questions about God. If you give up, you will never learn the truth. Mans whole purpose of life is to find answers. Look around the internet for answers. Ask religious scholars from all sorts of religion their perspective of God.

http://www.islamicity.com

[mothandrust]

Quote:Yes, a true Christian identifies with Jesus as being Savior. Nothing short of that. Saved by the bloodshed as a one time atonement.

Not the light and being self absorbed in delusions of how wonderful an individual you are, can be, will be.

That is the Gnostic lie. Which is extremely dualistic. And the practioners know that. Hence, they come on strong with the pseudo-love & light crap.

Truth be told they are totally immersed in their delusions and ego and this crap is all that is available 24/7 after 9/11 in the USA this EURO-GNOSTIC trip.:barf: Just Smirk at the takeover and be done with it. It is the Equinox of the Psychopath. The GNOSTIC EQUINOX OF THE PSYCHOPATH. So, talk about your secrets and don't say a thing about Christianity. Because Christians do not worship "THE LIGHT".

And if it wasn't a big old Tavi stock production, Christians would be free to be Christians, but that is not the case. However, all the re-write's of the Bible into Gnostic flavor are so obvious.:barf: Worship "the light within" SELF. All roads lead to self = Gnostic. There is no white or black. Just grey goo in that reality and certainly has nothing at all to do with being Christian.

...or...

you could think for yourself:barf:

[triplesix]

I guess in Serial's world we aren't all made up of the same atoms, molecules, electricity, and chemicals as every other material in the entire universe.

No we're all people. And individuals at that. On planet Earth, God's planet, the only planet where anything sentient goes to blissful, paradoxical, clearly nonexistent Heaven. And nevermind the guts that every other person has, nevermind the mind that every other person has, nevermind the soul that every other person has, we are all individuals and share nothing with one another.

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to learn you (Serial) are an avid meat-eater, never batting an eye once at the concept of factory farming, because who the fuck cares about the animals? After all, no animal-Jesus saved them, so they are just beasts roaming about for our domination.

Nothing is connected to anything else, after all. There is no pain or emotion felt by a beast. God doesn't dwell in the beast.

What connection do I have to that other human being? He's not in my religion, he's not in my family, he's not my friend, so fuck him!

What a great attitude Christians develop.

[psilocybin]

Funny how impotent this topic is... I still don't believe and everyone that did still does...

A monumental waste of time.

The fact that you can't convince anyone otherwise of a religious opinion runs in line with the point that it is all in our heads. If there were some kind of anchor in reality, we could find it and use it to triangulate the truth, but there isn't. It is in our imaginations. This fundamental understanding is one of the points the keeps me stooped in staunch atheism... I rather do not like the word atheist though, so I like to use atheologist.

In any case this topic hasn't hit the fan like most of the religious arguments on this site, so cheers to all involved.

[triplesix]

Quote:Saved by the bloodshed

Thank you Blood God

[mothandrust]

poor Laine, do not be too hard on her triplesix, she has never eaten from the tree.

it is a cold and frightening world out here (or so she believes) populated by psychopaths and terrors (there are wolves in the wood, don't you know?). safer to stay rapped in ignorance, away from the challenges (and rewards) of uncertainty (and discovery).

for Laine to venture out she must confront her greatest fear, that actually we are all human, there's not one select group of special, 'chosen' people, and she's been spun a line by her <strike>pharaoh, pharisee, pope, priest, prince, politician,</strike> preacher or whatnot and rather than representing Truth, he is representing a corrupt, self-serving power structure.

i am reminded of a quote from the 'Gospel of Thomas': "Woe to the Pharisees. Like a dog dozing in a food trough for cattle, they neither eat nor do they let the cattle eat" (102). small wonder power structures excluded it from their authorised, (royalty approved) version.

[jack]

Quote:... Are you just trying to turn believing members against nonbelievers? Your post serves no other purpose that I can see.

Well I see that ctrl was right, the only purpose you here is to create division.

There was a question asked and peoples responses given, - no more.
I read SE's post you guys might not like it, yet she didn't attack anyone personally in it.


Think for yourself -

So the theories that you guys have of god in your mind are completely your own, no one else has written or spoken them ???
It is complete free thought, free of outside influence ???



Unsubstantial -

So something must be proven to be believed ???
Can you prove that God is only in ones mind, that God is imaginary ???


There are many things in this world that cannot and never will be proven.