A Question for Christians on God

[hilly7]

Quote:

Quote:How can he love you? If you break on of his 10 commandments you go to hell and suffer forever...BUT he still loves you there


Am i jumbled up?

Is it a "he" though?

This topic will get to 10 pages long and no one (Christian or otherwise) will have given you an understandable or logical answer.

Its the old cliche "arguing with a Christian" you shouldn't bother Nyte.

The contradictory nature of the bible stands alone as proof for me that its a fucking piss take.

Christians always seem to post like 500 words of fluff telling you why you should believe in god but its never convincing to me... I can read it and see how it might convince people but come on, its just a business - the business of taking over your mind and ultimately your life.

Who benefits from YOU believing in all the stuff a Christian should believe?

A religion that tells you to STFU and be good and you'll go to heaven.

WE ARE ALL IN HEAVEN NOW - hard to believe huh? Well this is it... there is no more after this and even if there is its still no reason to STFU and get rolled on all your life being forgiving etc etc.

I take it you haven't died yet. If you had, you would know, this isn't even close to Heaven, or Hell. It's funny, I have talked with those that have went the other way. They remain terrified and fear death enough that it changes them. Then again, so does the positive experience.

Who does it benefit if you believe in God, nobody but You. Who does it hurt if you don't, only You. It does however benefit TPTB because if they can reduce you down to thinking you are a mistake on earth, you are less apt to fight back. Those who stand for nothing will always fall for anything, but that is You and not me.

Now, before this goes any futher, provide me proof that you have died physically, I'll show you mine, then we're on a mutual information level. Until then, you only THINK you know.

In the last 20 years, religion has been falling and it's uncool, even looked upon as ignorant. If you are old enough to look back over the last 40-50 years, you see the changes. So how is no religion working so far for you? Not too good. We are far less free than the 60s, 70s, and even the 80s.

Like was said already, while you are fighting for another breathe, and believe me you will fight, all the records you've broken, money you've made, degrees you have done, stuff you own, will not mean anything. Ultimately, we draw that last breathe, naked, helpless, scared, and for me, thank God, not alone. It benefits you and only you (does help your family and friends though), that you don't draw that last breathe alone, that God will take the final sting out, but that is totally your choice.

[EireWarrior]

I've got a question.

I am/was/not sure in limbo right now, if the lord is real.

First off, I dont get why he would choose only 144 thousand people of his choice to go with him to the "Higher Heaven" and leave the rest of use in "Normal Heaven" I just dont get it? It's in the bible, deffo quoted it wrongly but you should know what i mean.

There is war/ death [CHILDREN FUCKING DIE SOME EVIL DEATHS] but "He the lord" does nothing, BUT HE LOVES YOU! .... WHAT!

I cannot believe it, I'm a farther and I'd fucking slap the head off anyone that touched my child, Why doesnt he do anything if he is REAL!?

Please I'm Irish Catholic born and breed, I still teach my son to believe in god, and respect the bible for now. But, man i'm so fucking confussed in the head if he is real.

Yeah theres stories of him, But answer me this: Would you believe there was a God if nobody wrote the bible?

I mean ffs the "LORD" SITS BY OUR SIDES, HIS ALWAYS THERE FOR US, ha! Yeah Right.

Trust me when i say this I DO WANT TO BELIEVE THERE IS A GOD, but I am finding out more and more in my everyday life and stories from the past, that prove more so that there is not, rather than there is.

Funny as it may sound, I still bless myself while passing a church, but, i weirdly say "I pray you are real"

Think of nature, the Mayfly lives for what one or too days then dies, we live roughly 80-100yrs est. then die.
It's the way of life, just because were human beings doesnt mean were anymore special. We live / We die that's it.... and after that DARKNESS..... I'm starting to believe this is the way more and more, and nothing yet has convinced me otherwise. But I pray something does.

I'm fucking SOOOOO confused when it comes to religon now in this day and age :sad:

[Guest]

The 144k aren't simply "people of his choice". Read the bible and it'll clarify that, but in a nutshell, each and EVERY one of the 144k are jews.

All jews (except them) are hell bound because a) the didn't follow the laws laid down for the jews, orB)accept Jesus as atonement for their sins.

The 144k are the few that DID keep the law.

[hilly7]

Quote:I've got a question.

I am/was/not sure in limbo right now, if the lord is real.

First off, I dont get why he would choose only 144 thousand people of his choice to go with him to the "Higher Heaven" and leave the rest of use in "Normal Heaven" I just dont get it? It's in the bible, deffo quoted it wrongly but you should know what i mean.

There is war/ death [CHILDREN FUCKING DIE SOME EVIL DEATHS] but "He the lord" does nothing, BUT HE LOVES YOU! .... WHAT!

I cannot believe it, I'm a farther and I'd fucking slap the head off anyone that touched my child, Why doesnt he do anything if he is REAL!?

Please I'm Irish Catholic born and breed, I still teach my son to believe in god, and respect the bible for now. But, man i'm so fucking confussed in the head if he is real.

Yeah theres stories of him, But answer me this: Would you believe there was a God if nobody wrote the bible?

I mean ffs the "LORD" SITS BY OUR SIDES, HIS ALWAYS THERE FOR US, ha! Yeah Right.

Trust me when i say this I DO WANT TO BELIEVE THERE IS A GOD, but I am finding out more and more in my everyday life and stories from the past, that prove more so that there is not, rather than there is.

Funny as it may sound, I still bless myself while passing a church, but, i weirdly say "I pray you are real"

Think of nature, the Mayfly lives for what one or too days then dies, we live roughly 80-100yrs est. then die.
It's the way of life, just because were human beings doesnt mean were anymore special. We live / We die that's it.... and after that DARKNESS..... I'm starting to believe this is the way more and more, and nothing yet has convinced me otherwise. But I pray something does.

I'm fucking SOOOOO confused when it comes to religon now in this day and age :sad:

So was I. I'm not that knowledgeable on Catholic, I was born in the Baptist take on it. For some I have had the honor of speaking with, there was darkness, and some wish it would have been that simple. I don't know, other than what they tell me on that side. I know their change is real. There is a Light that is different from what can be explained in words, a perfect light. I think sometimes all religions put some man into God, but that is wrong. The KJV is close, but then again, close only counts in horsehoes and handgrenedes.

The world belongs to the devil, and so we are behind enemy lines, just my take. I relate much of what I know to everyday in my life, and this is one such instance. We have twins born to a goat, one is blind. They all cross the fence at the creek, when it's down, into my cousins field. Now it may follw it's mother, or possibly another goat into the field. Everyday, my youngest daughter and I spend about 30 minutes catching it to put back into our field, where no dogs or cayotes will cross due to the Llamas. One day, we may miss the baby, but everyday we look. Once it is Mark's field, it is out of our safety zone, and falls prey to his Pitbulls and Cayotes, both have attacked and killed his cows, and threatened people. We challenge them ocassionally, and so far we've won. Now if should this baby goat go back into the field in the dark, we will go after it if it cries out, but mostly, it is of it's own free will. As it grows into adulthood, we will still help all we can, and if it cries out we will defend it, but free will plays a part in this.

Positive energy never dies, it becomes transformed. If you saw what comes next, you'd be unhappy here, but we're not given that choice. Who knows, if I was to pick a group of people to be with, I'd pick the best. When children die, I assume that they go to Heaven, or at least to be with God. Death is a curse for some, but a blessing for many others. I look at this earth as a proving ground, money doesn't count, who looks smarter doesn't count, who aquires the most don't count, looks doesn't count, is the heart and soul that does. We choose allegiance to one side or the other, either man, or God.

The 144,000, I do not expect to be included in, I would be happy to just be where I was over 3 years ago. I never read a lot of the Bible, and still don't, but yes, one should be able to view the world and know there is a God. Many here seem to attemt a quote from Indian Tribes, so here is one that is real. A man asked a cheif one day why all TeePees faced the east, of which the cheif replied, "To thank the Great Spirit for a good day." The man was puzzled and laughed. "But how do you know it will be a good day." The chief looked back and said, "If you can not find good in the day, the fault is not in the day. The fault is not in the Great Spirit. The fault is in you." They didn't have a Bible.

[psilocybin]

Devil owns the world... bah ha ha ha ha ha ha.

Positive energy....

Positive and negative are a matter of perspective...

Reliance on a higher power is for people that can't accept an unknown fate.

I believe it's quite naive, but if I was scared shitless and didn't know myself that well... I could see me possibly sucking the religious dick.

I believe a lot of this is motivated by fear.

When children die, you assume... hilly7 this is why religion is bunk... there is no finite answer, so people go around assuming, but the problem here is that they serve their assumptions with some type of divine credence. This, in turn, allocates huge amounts of power in either an institution, a book, a person, an idea or all in some cases.

My main beef with religion is that it reeks like a control system. It's by far the worst meme introduced thus far into the collective human consciousness. I don't care how much good it does, if it is wrong, than it's wrong. Some people believe in this, some in that, they all think the other is stupid. It's like playground madness on a grand scale and it effects people in very serious ways.

I also believe questioning the doctrines of a religion is an easy way to waste a lot of time. I think religion as a whole needs to be questioned... dividing it up an examining each religion individually is insane, and arguing between religions is utter madness. Like: "My unprovable belief is right"... "no mine is"... "bang bang bang", it just doesn't work, and please don't use the Holy book from your religion to prove it... It's like how the IRS uses their own code to explain why people in the US should pay taxes. The source of the issue resides much higher up, thus is why no one can do anything to the IRS and how if you argue religion with someone who's spitting bible verses, it will go nowhere quick.

I find religion to be one of the worst dividing factors in the conspiracy movement. All it does is fragment groups and make our overall effectiveness diminished. It should be like party rules... don't talk about religion... although since it's conspiracy theory politics are fine.

Peace be with you...


lolz

[hilly7]

You are right on argueing over who's is best is a nowhere street. If any one such part was 100% correct, then point me to it. You are confusing religion with a Supreme Being, two totally different things.

However, as I have said before, if you have not been clinically dead, then with all due respect, we have nothing in common on if there is an afterlife or night. Just keep on believeing there isn't and perhaps for you, it will be true.

Having no God, is that really good? Sooo how's that working for you? You are here, like the rest of us, attempting to stop bad people from having you lick their boots, same as the rest of us.

You have a god, it matters not if you are smart enough to know it. Be it money, man, God, gods, science. But just keep on your path, perhaps we can all be killed, tagged or numbered at the present course. That is called Free Will.

Here is another hint, yes, I believe that we all plot our own course, perhaps you should broaden what you think you know, to what you actually know. It ain't the things that we don't know that gets us in trouble. It's the things we know that just ain't so. Will Rogers.

[psilocybin]

Quote:Having no God, is that really good?

A better question is whether it's bad... and it works great for me. It's the only way the world works correctly in my mind. A conclusion I came to a real long time ago. I'm not empty or devoid of emotions.

Unbelieving is a bullshit word. You aren't right, I'm not right. My position is actually more open, even though I don't believe in a religion or a deity, it doesn't mean I've shut down all roads. I just have given up on the bullshit ones IMO.

And I don't have a god, so please don't lay anymore of that shit on me. You have no way to know you're right, and you are the one making a belief decision. I'm not prescribing to anything offered up yet. It's like if I believed that the local news was telling me the straight line or don't. By blindly accepting things and using faith you alienate logic, which is the best tool humans have.

[hilly7]

Quote:

Quote:

Having no God, is that really good?

A better question is whether it's bad... and it works great for me. It's the only way the world works correctly in my mind. A conclusion I came to a real long time ago. I'm not empty or devoid of emotions.

Unbelieving is a bullshit word. You aren't right, I'm not right. My position is actually more open, even though I don't believe in a religion or a deity, it doesn't mean I've shut down all roads. I just have given up on the bullshit ones IMO.

And I don't have a god, so please don't lay anymore of that shit on me. You have no way to know you're right, and you are the one making a belief decision. I'm not prescribing to anything offered up yet. It's like if I believed that the local news was telling me the straight line or don't. By blindly accepting things and using faith you alienate logic, which is the best tool humans have.

That's just it my friend, I am not assuming. There is a lot of bullshit in religion these days, but not in God. We all worship something, being self, money, possessions, shills, or gods. The smart ones being honest with themselves know it. I'm not saying you are a bad person if you don't believe, I know many that don't but are good people, and I know plenty that do believe that aren't. It's more than placing just a bumper sticker on the car, or wearing jewelry. I don't accept faith blindly, seeing is believing, not in the figurative sense but literal one. Lucky for me, I get another chance, that's called Grace, I did not deserve it, but glad I got it. There is not a lot you can do wrong that I haven't. Not that I was a bad person, I just wasn't the one to piss off, or girls brought home to meet the parents. Not all of us take faith blindly, some have to be shown, and then logic becomes illogical, and the opposite. But that is your choice. There is no way I damn you for that, I got enough of my own faults to damn.

[mastermg]

Ive been blessed enough to see God's miracles before my very own eyes, along with other Muslims with me. Therefore, I know he exists.

[jack]

Quote:I find religion to be one of the worst dividing factors in the conspiracy movement. All it does is fragment groups and make our overall effectiveness diminished. It should be like party rules... don't talk about religion... although since it's conspiracy theory politics are fine.

Thing is, NWO and the coming police state are written of in the bible.

[jack]

Quote:

Quote:Hell, is NOT forever.
No one will suffer in hell forever.
If you go to hell you will then be eliminated from life forever, a permanent punishment of eternal death, forever, - not eternal permanent punishing, forever.

Are you a Jehovah's Winess? That's more in line with what they believe, not what the bible teaches.

No. I am not a Jehovah's witness, I am a follower of Jesus, God's son.
I have never been to one of their churches, nor am I a member of any church.
I was asked that once before due to the same subject, so if that is what they teach - I guess I agree with them on this subject.
I really know very little about their doctrine and some of what I've heard,- I disagree with.
However, I have also found things to disagree with in all 7 or 8 different denominations that I have actually visited.


YES, it is generally preached that people will live forever suffering in hell. However, I do not see this in the bible, - I see the second death.

They will die the second death--an eternal death from which they will never be raised.
That death will never end. It is an endless, eternal punishment, because it is an endless, eternal death.
IMO - endless torment is a misunderstanding of scripture.

Jesus came to save us from the 2nd death according to Revelation 2:11, Revelation 20:6
also Revelation 20:14 - "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death."

- Notice death & hell are also cast into the lake of fire, - they will be consumed by that fire and gone forever.



Matthew 25:46 "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."

Everlasting punishment is not everlasting punishing. - - Its the punishment that will be everlasting.




The word “hell” in the Bible.

In the Old Testament:
31 times - from the Hebrew “Sheol,” which means
“the grave”

In the New Testament:
10 times - from the Greek “Hades,” which means
“the grave”
12 times - from the Greek “Gehenna,” which means
“a place of burning”
1 time - from the Greek “Tartarus,” which means
“a place of darkness”

Mark chapter 9, Jesus says - And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

The words hell fire, are translated from the Greek word Gehenna.
Gehenna, - “a place of burning.” Here Jesus is using the valley of Hinnom, just outside of Jerusalem as an symbolic example to unrepentant sinners.
During that time this area was a garbage dump in which fires burned constantly, fueled by trash and the dead bodies of animals and criminals.
Notice that Jesus says the worm does not die, not that the people punished in hellfire do not die.
The punishment is eternal, permanent and complete.

Burned remains of the bodies in Gehenna/Hell/garbage dump, the Valley of Hinnom, decomposed and were infested with maggots.
The fire was not extinguished-it burned as long as there was trash to keep it burning-and the maggots (the "worms" of Mark 9:48) were not destroyed. Flies swarm over the decay and keep it continuously infested with maggots. Instead of dying, they turn into more flies in a continuing cycle. -The bodies of animals and people thrown into gehenna, however, either decayed or burned up and were eventually completely consumed.


or

Jude 1:7
Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
2 Peter 2:6
And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

Are Sodom and Gomorrah suffering the vengeance of eternal fire ?
The cities of Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed eternally never to be rebuilt. The Dead Sea flows over the place where they once were.



"But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the Lord shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away."Psalm37:20.

consume -
: to do away with completely
: destroy
: devour
: to waste or burn away : perish
: to eat or drink especially in great quantity
: to spend wastefully : squander or : use up

also, Jesus says in Matthew 10:28 - that we should fear God who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell

destroy -
: to ruin
: to put out of existence
: kill
: neutralize
: annihilate, vanquish
: to cause destruction

If the wicked are destroyed, both soul and body, in the lake of fire as Jesus says, they cannot be tormented for ever and ever.



from Malachi 4 - The Day of the LORD
"Surely the day is coming; it will burn like a furnace. All the arrogant and every evildoer will be stubble, and that day that is coming will set them on fire," says the LORD Almighty. "Not a root or a branch will be left to them. But for you who revere my name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its wings. And you will go out and leap like calves released from the stall. Then you will trample down the wicked; they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day when I do these things," says the LORD Almighty.


-- Ashes, not a root or branch left, gone forever. Dead forever, the 2nd and final death.

[hilly7]

MasterMG & Jack, most excellently said.

IMHO, Hell could also be seperation from God. Even on earth, as motals, we still have or see God's Light. In Hell, God's Light would not be shown. I know what it feels like to stand in the Light. I do not want to know what it would be not not stand in it. Again, I use the term God, but that is what I call Him. He is known by many names, but He is still the same. One NDEr explain, if we stand in The Light, it is impossible to stand in the Shadows.

Now it may seem unfair that everybody will not be in God's Light, but then again, is it fair that bad (evil) goes there as well? No, then we have earth again, like it is now with bad trying to overtake the good. Maybe that is why life and strife are so closely spelled. Strife is here, Life is later.

[psilocybin]

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Having no God, is that really good?

A better question is whether it's bad... and it works great for me. It's the only way the world works correctly in my mind. A conclusion I came to a real long time ago. I'm not empty or devoid of emotions.

Unbelieving is a bullshit word. You aren't right, I'm not right. My position is actually more open, even though I don't believe in a religion or a deity, it doesn't mean I've shut down all roads. I just have given up on the bullshit ones IMO.

And I don't have a god, so please don't lay anymore of that shit on me. You have no way to know you're right, and you are the one making a belief decision. I'm not prescribing to anything offered up yet. It's like if I believed that the local news was telling me the straight line or don't. By blindly accepting things and using faith you alienate logic, which is the best tool humans have.

That's just it my friend, I am not assuming. There is a lot of bullshit in religion these days, but not in God. We all worship something, being self, money, possessions, shills, or gods. The smart ones being honest with themselves know it. I'm not saying you are a bad person if you don't believe, I know many that don't but are good people, and I know plenty that do believe that aren't. It's more than placing just a bumper sticker on the car, or wearing jewelry. I don't accept faith blindly, seeing is believing, not in the figurative sense but literal one. Lucky for me, I get another chance, that's called Grace, I did not deserve it, but glad I got it. There is not a lot you can do wrong that I haven't. Not that I was a bad person, I just wasn't the one to piss off, or girls brought home to meet the parents. Not all of us take faith blindly, some have to be shown, and then logic becomes illogical, and the opposite. But that is your choice. There is no way I damn you for that, I got enough of my own faults to damn.

How can you not be assuming if you believe in something without absolute proof.... answer that.



As for the NWO being written about in the bible... The Holy Roman Catholic Church had a stranglehold on the bible for 600 years... It's a flawed and altered document. It was the mainstay of the most oppressive force to control the planet in the last 2000 years.

[jack]

Quote:As for the NWO being written about in the bible... The Holy Roman Catholic Church had a stranglehold on the bible for 600 years... It's a flawed and altered document. It was the mainstay of the most oppressive force to control the planet in the last 2000 years.

I used to see it as a means of control as well, but I was wrong.

A power hungry group, especially a political/ruling group like the RCC, could also use food to control people, doesn't make the food bad or controlling.

RCC has definitely used God to control people, but the book itself in particular the NT (I think it should not be together as one stand alone book, but two or more, & yes, the RCC did that) and Jesus are not controlling at all. - An encouragement to be nice, if you want to call that control.
In fact Jesus was anti-religion - he referred to religion as "traditions of men" and the religious as "vipers" and "white-washed tombs"


Of course I have witness plenty of things to give proof, no need to assume here. Maybe one day you will too, or maybe not. Until then there is nothing I can say to get you to see that not only is Jesus not about religion - christian or jew, but he's not about control either.

Unfortunately. there are controlling, violent and stupid idiots attached with all three monotheistic religions, but there are plenty of controlling, violent, stupid secular idiots as well.
In fact I would say the world has way too many idiots in all shapes, sizes, colors and philosophies or lack thereof..

[mastermg]

Jesus (peace be upon him) did not teach any religion, just told his people to believe 1 God (SWT) and read the bible (not containing original text anymore since the Romans changed it in order to try converting old Britain who were polytheists) until the next prophet comes. This were the 'Gods son' was put into it, to please the idol worshippes who believes in the relationships God supposedly has.