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jack · 05-09-2008, 02:49 AM

Quote:
Quote:So again, I ask - how do we realistically get out of it now ???

This "centralized power" in today's world doesn't need nations to have power, it is a banking system.
They own and control the peoples of the globe, national boundaries or not.
You hit the nail on the head - our problem is the banking system, which is imposed on us from above.

The solution is to minimize their influence by avoiding the use of fiat money whenever possible. Barter, and exchange labour for labour, whenever you can - starting at a local level.

Barter Toronto
B2B
Canadian Barter System

A friend of mine started a Community Association in his neighbourhood in Aylmer, Quebec, initially because they had to get together and sue the scumbag who built their houses. They built a web site to more easily contact each other. It's now grown into a tool sharing system, where they lend all manner of things to each other. They are apparently planning block parties etc. and having a grand old time.

This doesn't totally break the chains of enslavement, but it's a hell of a start...

Sounds like a step in the right direction, for sure.
Any steps further away from the "invisible hand" are a big plus.
However it tends to only allow people to get a certain distance away, before it reaches out and grabs their ass. - Then punishes them, for dare trying to inch away.

Sorry, I sound like a fatalist. - It just seems to me lately, that we are screwed - dammed if we do, dammed if we don't.

I'm all for trying however.
I just don't want our efforts ending up in governmental hands (as it often does, when people start crying injustice) that then make things worse. They are the invisible hand's puppets after all.

I think we need to convince folks not to look for any type of big brother's help, unless absolutely necessary - the very last option.
So many go to BB, when something goes wrong, without first trying different ways to solve the issue.

@ shZ, I was just thinking, I don't know where you live. So that could be part of our disagreement. Maybe you live in a metropolis area,
- I live in a small neighborhood in a small city. My neighborhood, though small, is by no means a "community." - I'm not sure that I would want to be a work together type community with some of my neighbors.
Some of them are superficial jerks (stupid americans.) - I can live near them, but wouldn't want to live with them - know what I mean ? (think I could handle bartering tho)
Does that sound judgmental ? - well - so be it, if it does. Some folks are jerks, plain and simple.

............................

"...the powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent private meetings and conferences. The apex of the system was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basle, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations." - Tragedy and Hope: A History of the World in Our Time -1966
BIS is now firmly established

yeti · 05-09-2008, 03:17 AM

Quote:Sounds like a step in the right direction, for sure.
Any steps further away from the "invisible hand" are a big plus.
However it tends to only allow people to get a certain distance away, before it reaches out and grabs their ass. - Then punishes them, for dare trying to inch away.

Like the Branch Davidians? The Amish? The FLDS?

Governments don't like independant-thinking "radicals"...

Quote:Sorry, I sound like a fatalist. - It just seems to me lately, that we are screwed - dammed if we do, dammed if we don't.

Let me put it this way: we're screwed anyway - we're all going to die, whether we do or don't. I'd rather do. What about you?

Quote:I'm all for trying however.

It's either that or just give up and die - then you wouldn't be able to experience the joy of having hordes of grandchildren to "harass" with your wisdom. My grandfathers LOVED me because I loved their funny jokes. My parents just ordered me around all the time...

Quote:I just don't want our efforts ending up in governmental hands (as it often does, when people start crying injustice) that then make things worse. They are the invisible hand's puppets after all.

Back to the original discussion: govern the visible.

Quote:I think we need to convince folks not to look for any type of big brother's help, unless absolutely necessary - the very last option.

Asking for their help is asking for more enslavement.

Quote:So many go to BB, when something goes wrong, without first trying different ways to solve the issue.

What is BB?

jack · 05-09-2008, 03:46 AM

What is BB?
Big Brother or maybe Butthole Bureaucrats

hilly7 · 05-09-2008, 05:03 AM

This is a good read from all sides. I think however, it's gotta get a lot worse before it gets better. Bartering would be good. Here in the south, back in the 60s and 70s, bartering was good. If someone was a ripp-off, others just didn't do business with them. If they were mean, their mortality rate was extremely low. Back then, small, people ran governments were the power, but only as long as the government feared and represented the people. Stuff took place like "Miller's Ditch" and "The Battle of Athens".

As long as the bankers run and own the world and governments, we are screwed. Odd that their mortality rate is low. As looking at what I read and see, I think we are in for a change, like it or not. What change depends upon us and what we allow. So far, I see foreclousurers, debt, hunger, limited mobility, just to name a few in our future.

yeti · 05-09-2008, 05:22 AM

Quote:As long as the bankers run and own the world and governments, we are screwed.

Up here in "frontier" Canada, we have only 6 very huge, very stable banks. We also have lots of "credit unions", consisting of local money - not huge, not stable, but very local.

The large banks have been charging more and more for transactions, while paying less interest. Unfortunately, the vast majority of us put up with it, instead of TAKING ALL OF OUR MONEY OUT and MOVING IT TO LOCAL CREDIT UNIONS.

Yes, Canadians can be idiots too...

hilly7 · 05-09-2008, 05:33 AM

If one can get out of debt, to where little money is needed, say for taxes and utilities, the few enjoyments one buys, pays cash for or barter for, that is a start. We actually would not need their money, but it would take everybody's effort to achieve. No borrowing, just barter and cash.

yeti · 05-09-2008, 05:35 AM

Quote:If one can get out of debt, to where little money is needed, say for taxes and utilities, the few enjoyments one buys, pays cash for or barter for, that is a start. We actually would not need their money, but it would take everybody's effort to achieve. No borrowing, just barter and cash.

That's what credit unions are for. Local money loaned by local people who know whether or not you're a risk.

hilly7 · 05-09-2008, 05:40 AM

True, but here in the states, some are about as crooked as banks. I thin k I'll look into some and if they are straight, move my accounts over.

yeti · 05-09-2008, 06:04 AM

Quote:True, but here in the states, some are about as crooked as banks. I thin k I'll look into some and if they are straight, move my accounts over.

Take charge - it's your money, not theirs. Interview THEM, not the other way around...