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horseonwheels · 05-28-2008, 12:58 PM

Quote:"fits the bill" - it looks plausible the Hafith was largely concocted by people tripping out of their skulls..

as i said i belive it to the the product primarily of politics. and various fractions adding to it over the years to favour whatever politic, interpretation they believed was the be all end all. I dont think they sat there tripping balls while they were collecting i must admit lol

horseonwheels · 05-28-2008, 01:04 PM

Quote:Ahhh yes that is a good answer, but I have another question then. if as you say you believe as a muslim that both Jesus and Muhammed and Moses are all prophets, then how can it be that only Jesus will return to defeat the Anti-Christ?

he wont according to the Quran. I have no idea why so many muslims keep insisting on this lame story. Jesus is dead, as is Mohammad. They are not going to do anything but enjoy the fruits of their labour with God.

Quote:If he returns that confirms then that he indeed was resurrected

sure if he comes, he would have been ressurected to be so. however....where is he?

This idea along with the mehdi and the antichrist came...sigh again...streight out of hadith, with NO, zero, none, zilch not a bit of, support from the Quran.

~~---~~ · (This post was last modified: 05-28-2008 01:21 PM by ---.)

Quote:
Quote:"fits the bill" - it looks plausible the Hafith was largely concocted by people tripping out of their skulls..

as i said i belive it to the the product primarily of politics. and various fractions adding to it over the years to favour whatever politic, interpretation they believed was the be all end all. I dont think they sat there tripping balls while they were collecting i must admit lol

yeah, not the whole shebang obviously but there's a few decents debates out there about it..imo if someone is recording trees running etc. around there's a good case they if they weren't either mad, lying the specific texts may well have been the outpourings of a drug cult..

http://members.tripod.com/alam25/inf.htm - "chased by beasts and tigers"

http://www.uh.edu/engines/epi1037.htm - egot has a role in Salem witch trials?

wow- One of the most amazing stories about naturally-occurring alkaloids in fungi concerns ergot (Claviceps purpurea); a fungus that infects grains of rye and related grasses. One of the psychoactive components of ergot fungus is the alkaloid ergine (d-lysergic acid amide), better known as natural LSD. The more potent synthetic LSD, (d-lysergic acid diethylamide), also known as LSD 25, is one of the most powerful psychoactive drugs known. LSD 25 was originally synthesized from natural psychoactive alkaloids in ergot. According to Lewis and Lewis (1977), it is 4,000 times more powerful than mescaline. Natural LSD (ergine) is also found in the seeds of two species of Mexican morning glory vines which are still ingested by native Indians in an important medicinal and religious ritual.
- It wasn't until 1597 (500 years after the first epidemic of ergotism) that physicians finally associated this horrendous disease with the ergot on rye. Another form of ergot poisoning involves severe hallucinations and madness, caused by pschoactive alkaloids in the sclerotia. - http://www.entheology.org/edoto/anmviewer.asp?a=37&z=5

"breaking bread" LOL

horseonwheels · 05-28-2008, 01:14 PM

good point, didnt see it like that.

~~---~~ · (This post was last modified: 05-28-2008 05:13 PM by ---.)

Yeah, if it the case then it shows up the social and cultural practices enforced by the House of Saud as just so much hypocritical tyrranical bullshit ..i wouldn't want to get lifted with 143grams of psilocybin mushrooms in Saudi,you know what i mean? lol

seeing as its not a debate and only a questions and answers thread:rolleyes:- is the symbology of the pine cone infused into islamic art at all? Just out of my own interest..

05-28-2008, 06:50 PM

Quote:First of all plastic fan:
Do you actually live in Australia? Because if you do that would make your statements unforgivably stupid and if not then it makes you extremely naive for speaking shit out of place.

I know the Australian far right gets alot of mileage out of Islamophobia.

http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=1485

http://www.islamophobia-watch.com/islamoph...egory/australia

horseonwheels · 05-28-2008, 07:53 PM

Quote:Yeah, if it the case then it shows up the social and cultural practices enforced by the House of Saud as just so much hypocritical tyrranical bullshit ..i wouldn't want to get lifted with 143grams of psilocybin mushrooms in Saudi,you know what i mean? lol

seeing as its not a debate and only a questions and answers thread:rolleyes:- is the symbology of the pine cone infused into islamic art at all? Just out of my own interest..

hypocrites in politics...nooooo!? Im not aware of any connection to the pine cone in typical islamic art, no. First and foremost as it in several branches traditions are illegal to depict anything from the seen, and from the unseen, So islamic art revolves more around caligraphy and geometrical, symetrical figures. Second, im not aware that the pine tree is a local plant in the area, but im no botanist perhaps NS can answer that?

yeti · (This post was last modified: 05-28-2008 10:10 PM by yeti.)

Quote:

Shouldn't that be "ordo ad chao"*, which means "order to chaos"?

* not to be confused with "ordo ab chao", which means "order from chaos"

Edit: Never mind. "ordo ad chaos" is grammatically correct. The album by Mayhem is actually incorrect grammar...

~~---~~ · 05-29-2008, 02:54 PM

Quote:
Quote:First of all plastic fan:
Do you actually live in Australia? Because if you do that would make your statements unforgivably stupid and if not then it makes you extremely naive for speaking shit out of place.

I know the Australian far right gets alot of mileage out of Islamophobia.

http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=1485

http://www.islamophobia-watch.com/islamoph...egory/australia

He's pissed off about Cronulla

~~nietzscheansuperman~~ · 05-29-2008, 05:12 PM

He's pissed off about Cronulla

What you talkin about? I was never at Cronulla!

This is not a very productive way to discuss this issue! Og suggested to me that I should record a discussion with one of you guys and I agree, that is a much more effective way of debating this. If Master MG or Horseonwheels would like to join me in discussing this issue I would be very happy to debate it with them over skype or whatever and upload it on the tracker. I give you my word that I will do my utmost to keep the conversation civil and I am always open to the possibility that I will learn something from you and perhaps you will prove my stance on islam to be misguided and wrong.

So what do you say? Would you guys be willing to discuss it with me?? I will need some time to get the equipment required to do this so it may not be for a couple of weeks.

Thanks, joe.

~~---~~ · 05-29-2008, 05:54 PM

Quote:What you talkin about? I was never at Cronulla!

LOL before you got yourself banned previously, you made quite a big deal about the Lebanese immigrants in Cronulla. Memory like an elephant me.;)

~~nietzscheansuperman~~ · 05-29-2008, 06:15 PM

I knew exactly what you were referring to, do you think I would forget typing up that thread? Im not a goldfish :wink:

I used it as an example that muslims can not integrate into a free society like Australia, I believe their religion to be incompatible with the laws and freedom of this and every other Western nation! And like I said I hope someone will be willing to do a recording and prove me wrong, I do understand that I may be wrong (theres a first time for everything) and if this is the case I would love someone to demonstrate this, thanks.

mastermg · 05-29-2008, 06:51 PM

Ok thats the civilized discussion that im talking about! I wouldnt mind but my mic isnt working well and I might be traveling in 1 month so I might be busy in the next few weeks but lets see if Horse is down.

horseonwheels · 05-29-2008, 11:06 PM

Not really, i prefer debate though letter format, as it gives time to find the relevant material to back up your claims with, should the need arise:)

What do you reckon the debate has to gain from it?

shZ · 05-29-2008, 11:23 PM

Quote:Not really, i prefer debate though letter format, as it gives time to find the relevant material to back up your claims with, should the need arise:)

What do you reckon the debate has to gain from it?

Public speaking and parlimentary style debating is an art in itself. How convincing a speaker can be has nothing to do with the accuracy or truthfullness of his or her stated position. And yes, this is a much better frum for debate as no one can cut anyone off (which you can be penalized for in formal debate with excessive "on a point of information" statements, but that requires a chairman to preside over the debate... and there's a panel of judges who will generally penalize you for harassing should it become excessive). Like you already stated, in a medium like this, one can actually back up their claims if need be. Oh, and in mass media like television and radio, there's such a thing as "consicion" that doesn't really allow for the time to back up a controversial or unconvensional claim or position. This is an infinetly better forum for and intellectually honest debate.