Zeitgeist Refuted

[trueaim]

if 'han' cant figure out what a historian is then forget it, if i have to explain it on those terms than there is no point, that's basic primary school stuff, and he's the only one who even tried so just goes to show the mentality of the rest, i gave him a chance and thanked him for his question- did u not read that? but he was not able to comprehend the reply so fell down with the rest, so thats it, dont have time left, good luck with the Satanic NWO - you gonna need need it. May God have mercy on your souls....

[Hans Olo]

Quote:Thats because they are HISTORIANS! would heaven help this ignoramis! of course they wrote after they are writing about what happened in the past YOU MORON they ARE HISTORIANS!
IF you want the eye witness testimonies then ask for them - we have plenty of those! But the qustion was why historians did not write about it? well THEY DID! after - because it was then HISTORY! how dumb are you kid? WAKE UP! you MORON! HISTORIANS write about events in the past! how hard is that for someone to understand? CRIKEY! what have you in your head - concrete? cotton wool? it cannot be a god given brain, it cant be! no one can be that dumb....OF COURSE ITS AFTER they are HISTORIANS they write about the PAST - HISTORY! we have the reports from the crucifixion by the Roman official and the eye witness accounts but thats different that dosen't come under the HISTORIANS ACCOUNTS!

Listen star wars boy - You are ridiculous just stop, dont bother, you have not the brain to pursue this any further, just stop, your a moron, just dont bother.

I think you're onto something here...

No, wait, what I wanted to say was: you're on something.

Do you wonder sometimes why no one takes you seriously? Outbursts of idiocy like that are the reason. You know if you talked to a person in real life like that they would crush you. So you have to resort to name calling on the internet. You're one of these guys who think they can do or say anything to anyone without consequence. If someone talked to me like that in person, I'd smash their face in and then snap their neck.

Now back on topic. You cannot "witness" something without being there. Historian or not.
Troll.

Now go ahead and have one final reply - the last word - before I put you on my ignore list.

[horseonwheels]

Quote:Thats because they are HISTORIANS! would heaven help this ignoramis! of course they wrote after they are writing about what happened in the past YOU MORON they ARE HISTORIANS!

ehh no, TODAY we have historians, who are people who study the work of the SCRIBES (media outlets) of the time. They wrote down stuff WHEN it happend, right there in the spot or when the word had traveled and the historian then try to deccipher what it actually meant.

Hans Olo posed a question, and you still have not answered it, as BEING FLAT OUT WRONG, or perhaps rather making it up as you go along is not an answer.

Beddru may be a typo in Kersey Graves's - The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors. Murdock claims it was a handwritten manuscript. I dont know that this is true, but i find it stricking that the word only appears ONCE in Kersey's book, so it might be the case. What is even more stricking is that the zeitgeist people picked up up and ran with it.

The same diety is a point of criticie for the movie, the god who wasnt there, but they dont even mention it. The name was on a backdrop in one flashy moment and to christians it became a point of critique. Typically christians, setting up strawmen, arguing against a point nobody ever made, as to seem to "debunk" whatever they are frothing at this time.

[---]

Quote:if 'han' cant figure out what a historian is then forget it, if i have to explain it on those terms than there is no point, that's basic primary school stuff, and he's the only one who even tried so just goes to show the mentality of the rest, i gave him a chance and thanked him for his question- did u not read that? but he was not able to comprehend the reply so fell down with the rest, so thats it, dont have time left, good luck with the Satanic NWO - you gonna need need it. May God have mercy on your souls....

You out of here now then Trueaim? Well, schade cos I liked the info. But I guess if you're set on leaving I won't need to tell you to chill out a bit and be more respectful to your fellow members..

If you decide to stick around, I'd say this. "dribbling" "knuckle dragging" get a pass with me as they seem to be your standard vernacular and quite funny but otherwise start showing some restraint in the heavy flaming - really not needed and consequently debilitates the information you try and put forth.

Obviously you know quite a lot about some things, so, as I say, it'd be a shame if you were to fuck off but if you decide to stay - knock off the unneccesary pretentions of grandeur.

Be cordial as people are to you and folk might even start considering what you say more seriously. so to repeat the hallmark : "mutual respect" - is it that hard?? *sigh*
If you can't be nice then I guess do what you gotta do and do one.. stay and continue with twatish behaviour I'll need to up the antie in terms of persuasion.

Basically, don't complain about being in the schoolyard if you're acting like a child.. play nice. or alternatively debate with maturity :o B)
cheers

[harflimon]

Quote:talk is expensive not cheap at the moment brother

They way you've been talking in this thread I'd say talk isn't worth a continental.

[Guest]

Due to the content, this obviously belongs in Religion and Occult....moved...

[itsallahoax]

"But I promise you that if you are angry with someone, you will have to stand trial. If you call someone a fool, you will be taken to court. And if you say that someone is worthless, you will be in danger of the fires of hell." -Matthew 5:22 (CEV).

I'd love to see you hang around and try to take these words of Jesus a little more seriously TrueAim. I love your fire and zeal but name-calling only gives unbelievers another reason to conclude that Christianity is nothing but hypocrisy based on myths.

I'm a firm believer that God provided His Only-Begotten Son as the Savior of the human race, and all one needs to do to realize that the world needs a savior is to take a look around. Otherwise, somebody created this amazing world, then abandoned it. I find that to be unreasonable, but it's only my opinion. The problem with the Bible is that it's been tampered with too much, and the entire New Testament as we have it today is very questionable. That the Old Testament contains so many prophecies that Jesus fulfilled at the right place and time is enough evidence for me of Divine inspiration, but the Great Deceiver has had his minions foul the book, and evidently God allowed this to happen. We have tools today never before available: computers, a world-wide web, software programs.... Seek and ye shall find.....unless you prefer to just trust the ruling elite and their plans for us "useless eaters".....

http://www.sullivan-county.com/id2/marcion.htm

http://www.sullivan-county.com/identity/gen_cont.htm

itsallahoax

[jack]

Quote:I'd love to see you hang around and try to take these words of Jesus a little more seriously TrueAim. I love your fire and zeal but name-calling only gives unbelievers another reason to conclude that Christianity is nothing but hypocrisy based on myths.

second that

[plasticfan]

Quote:Chris White:

A little while back Acharya S or (D.M. Murdock) author of the �The Christ Conspiracy� and a consultant to part one of The Zeitgeist movie put out a video responding to all the websites and videos that debunk part one (the religion part) of The Zeitgeist movie.

My friend and I created http://zeitgeistchallenge.com a while back where we offer cash for anyone who can prove the claims zeitgeist makes about the similarities between Jesus and other gods. (no one has answered the challenge yet by the way)
we couldn�t believe the stuff that Acharya thought she could get away with in this video, So we thought we would take the time to point out some of the problems.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=...4404709290

- source

http://conspiracyclothes.com/nowheretorun/

[icosaface]

Lets put the shoe on the other foot for awhile. If God loves human beings in the slightest why did It create a defective situation? How does the perfect one, who is never wrong, make such a mistake and avoid taking responsibility for this. By blaming Its creations. How much BS do we have to swallow to recognize crap when we hear it? Also Its only begotten son was the product of adultery. It is easy to see how the priests get away with child molestation when most of the addled (adults) don't recognize adultery when it is thrown in their faces. God breaks Its own rules which explains the insanity inherent in these ancient religions.

[Soul Real]

I apologize for thrusting myself into a conversation 5 pages in length, but I wanted to participate and did not see it until now.

I may participate from here on, but I need to understand better where you all are in the conversation.


To answer icosaface, Theologically (not sure if that matters to you), it is said to be mans fault. God created the earth as a place for us to dwell, but in that he is supposed to be a God of love, it was a necessity that we would have free will. That free will included the reality that one might do something like murder. To try an avoid that as a possibility, God did not "enlighten" mankind into the understanding of "evil" but put the option in the fruit of a tree, both giving us the option to know while ensuring that we would not know unless we made a conscious decision that we wanted to. Theologically, God had to do what he did or it would counter the spirit he was suppose to have, one of truth, love and free will. Once man ate it, God cursed them, that woman would feel pain in bearing children, and man would forever work the land to live. Coincidentally, both of these would be a natural response to the care of God extended to them in the "garden", which is to be fruitful and multiply. Remember that God was suppose to have provided food and protection. Now those things were taken away and man was responsible for his own care.

Not saying I agree, but this is what is generally understood and I think it is a pretty good response.

[standvast]

Was it Trueaim that requested a pre-theosophy source for some of the parallels drawn in zeitgeist ?

this may be interesting to you ;

AN EXPLANATION OF THE FABLE, IN WHICH THE SUN
IS WORSHIPPED UNDER THE NAME OF CHRIST.

By Charles François Dupuis (1798)

(From chapter IX of his book The Origin of All Religious Worship)

link ; here

Quote:Thus Mithras and Christ were born on the same day, and that day was the birth-day of the Sun. They said of Mithras, that he was the same God as the Sun, “that he was the Light, that lighteth every man, that cometh into the world.” The birth-place of Mithras was placed in a grotto, that of Bacchus and of Jupiter in a cavern, and that of Christ in a stable. It is a parallel, which was drawn by St. Justinus himself. According to tradition, it was in a grotto that Christ was laying, when the Magi came to worship him. But who were the Magi? The worshippers of Mithras or the Sun. What presents did they bring to the new-born God? Three sorts of presents, consecrated to the Sun by the worship of the Arabs, the Chaldeans and other Orientals. By whom are they informed of this birth? By astrology their favorite science. What were their dogmas? They believed, says Chardin, in the eternity of a first Being, which is the Light. What are they presumed to do in the fable? To fulfill the first precept of their religion, which commands them to worship the newborn Sun. What name do the prophets give to Christ? That of Orient. Orient they say is his name. It is at the Orient and not in Orient, that they see his image in the Heavens. And indeed, the sphere of the Magi and of the Chaldeans painted in the Heavens a new-born babe, called Christ or Jesus; it was placed in the arms of the celestial Virgin, or the Virgin of the signs, the very same one, to which Eratosthenes gives the name of Isis, the mother of Horus. To which point of Heaven corresponded this Virgin of the spheres and her child? To the hour of mid-night on the twenty-fifth December, at the same moment, when the birth of the God of the year, the new Sun or Christ is said to take place at the eastern border, at the same point, whence the Sun of the first day rose.

whole book online here ; The Origin of All Religious Worship

peace'

[codboy]

Quote:

Quote:face it moon worship has just been around way longer.

God created the moon you fool.

Ok, your a caveman in his/her cave. There's a thunder and lightning storm happening outside. Now considering that the caveman has the intellect of a cheesie (Granted he did create small tools and that was probablely by accident), how else would he/she go about explaining what was happening outside the cave? It must be the work of some higher being or something. BOOM, you have the birth of religion. And as time wears on, shit gets added to it and then you have the modern church.

[Cycle of Eternity]

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:face it moon worship has just been around way longer.

God created the moon you fool.

Ok, your a caveman in his/her cave. There's a thunder and lightning storm happening outside. Now considering that the caveman has the intellect of a cheesie (Granted he did create small tools and that was probablely by accident), how else would he/she go about explaining what was happening outside the cave? It must be the work of some higher being or something. BOOM, you have the birth of religion. And as time wears on, shit gets added to it and then you have the modern church.

you're speaking to a caveman, he won't understand. try telling a roach he's a roach, ya know?

[plasticfan]

Nowhere To Run - Evidence for the Existence of Jesus
Chris White
21 June 2008

This video is a presentation of the evidence for the existence of Jesus.
It uses only non- biblical sources and goes through the skeptical arguments for each claim.

It will be surprising for some to see how much evidence for the historicity of Jesus there actually is, in fact there is more evidence for Jesus� existence, as you will see, than there is for most of the prominent figures in ancient history.

This is part one of a four part video (it should play the rest automatically)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I93OLYzewgY...&playnext=1

-source
http://conspiracyclothes.com/nowheretorun/