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Reboot · 10-18-2008, 05:43 PM

Why Do We Worship Government?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enKYgk79fFw

harmonius · 10-18-2008, 09:52 PM

The kid is right on for the first bit of it to a degree. It's easy to see that his parents have been spoon feeding him the irrational 'government bad' nonsense. Government is neither good nor bad, it only reflects that which society wishes it to be. It's as stupid as the moronic lefties who run around decrying the evil of corporations whilst forgetting that corporations are only a reflection of the people involved in them.

Then he gets into free-market worship.

I'm tired of hearing about the free market. No free market exists. No free market will ever exist. If you want a really free-market, go live with some tribe wearing loin-cloths in the backwoods of Borneo where they've never heard of money or Jesus.

I'm sick of libertarians, who are otherwise intelligent, duping themselves into believing that that the free-market is an answer to anything because all other systems, in their view, are some form of socialism or tyranny. They come of sounding just like right-wing reactionaries.

I certainly do not worship government but I realize that there does need to be a system of social organization and a body to carry out those activities. What form that may take is up to those participating.

MMM

shZ · 10-19-2008, 02:37 AM

Quote:The kid is right on for the first bit of it to a degree. It's easy to see that his parents have been spoon feeding him the irrational 'government bad' nonsense. Government is neither good nor bad, it only reflects that which society wishes it to be. It's as stupid as the moronic lefties who run around decrying the evil of corporations whilst forgetting that corporations are only a reflection of the people involved in them.

Then he gets into free-market worship.

I'm tired of hearing about the free market. No free market exists. No free market will ever exist. If you want a really free-market, go live with some tribe wearing loin-cloths in the backwoods of Borneo where they've never heard of money or Jesus.

I'm sick of libertarians, who are otherwise intelligent, duping themselves into believing that that the free-market is an answer to anything because all other systems, in their view, are some form of socialism or tyranny. They come of sounding just like right-wing reactionaries.

I certainly do not worship government but I realize that there does need to be a system of social organization and a body to carry out those activities. What form that may take is up to those participating.

MMM

I couldn't even listen to most of it, and agree with you for the most part except I guess I would qualify as one of those 'lefties' who think corporations are tyrannical institutions. I think Chomsky's institutional analysis of corporations is spot on. I also have very socialist leaning and personally think Marx had a lot of great ideas or at the very least completely valid criticisms of capitalism and capital period. But yes, free market is a myth.

mexika · (This post was last modified: 10-19-2008 03:20 AM by mexika.)

We do not worship governments - governments take out a ticket to brainwash and indoctrinate the robots of empires. They make us warship the government which has been taken over by the corporatacity to work in a way to bring down the people in a type of Nazi Propaganda ideologies as in CNN, CBS, ABC. We have been programmed by the corporations to glorify and seek security from the government industrial complex. Our mind has been or is being to a one hundred percent being hijacked, manipulated, and killed. Our mind is what they fear! The Government as an entity of A WHORE has now sold out the corporate PIMPS! AMERIKKKA AND ITS PIMPS have become or are becoming global prostitues as defined by mythical money and profits. There is no honor, dignity, humanity, or respect for people or the environment. We become BEASTS!!!

Save your soul and do not take the mark of the beast, that which seeks to enslave all that you are and more that you can be.

Open the third eye, become humble as to activate and be able to see with wisdom the enemy!!!

Watch Zeitgeist again. Some think its a joke, but tell that to the Iraqi people who have been murdered in cold blood of over one million dead which equate to not being soldiers but worthless pieces of meat who are demonized by the U.S.A media, government, and stupid brain dead u.s.a soldiers.

3000 9/11 victims sacrificed in the name OF ALL AND PURE GREED!!! Its as if the devil has taken over America!!

EDUCATE TO SET FREE!!

mastermg · 10-19-2008, 03:46 AM

I have quick question. I know free market doesnt exist but can someone explain why? I want to know because im writing essays for school on corporations and outsourcing and stuff.
Thanks

mexika · (This post was last modified: 10-19-2008 04:12 AM by mexika.)

Quote:I have quick question. I know free market doesnt exist but can someone explain why? I want to know because im writing essays for school on corporations and outsourcing and stuff.
Thanks

Free Market, NAFTA. Exploitation on an international scale to benefit just the nazi corporations. Free market still deals with Money, competition, and labor. Free Market is just a word, it does not mean its fair and equal.

mastermg · 10-19-2008, 04:57 AM

Exploitation of other countries, like enslaving them (sweatshops)?

mexika · (This post was last modified: 10-19-2008 05:26 AM by mexika.)

Quote:Exploitation of other countries, like enslaving them (sweatshops)?

enslaving them, displacing them from their farmlands and coming to the U.S.A, the greatest country on earth!! Human trafficking aka illegal aliens, corrupting regional officials to instill fear locally and take their lands. Free Market is just that, Free Market for the Elite, not the people. The people do not benefit from free market, the corporations, sell-out political whores do. The people are just that, good people who like nothing more than peace and live a good life, thats all. Free Market or any other system which empowers the elite and tyrannical governments become the church. A repeat of history when the church sought to enslave the people, wisdom, knowledge and true freedom. The Corporations and government become again, The Church, guardian of suppression and totalitarianism, once again in a different form but the same crap.

harmonius · 10-19-2008, 05:23 AM

Quote:I have quick question. I know free market doesnt exist but can someone explain why? I want to know because im writing essays for school on corporations and outsourcing and stuff.
Thanks

A free market does not exist for many reasons. Some top points might be:

-Fractional reserve banking - If an individual tried these lending tactics they would get their ass kicked, thrown in jail or even killed.

-A free market is supposed to lack coercion - I think you are probably smart enough to figure this one out as it is laughably utopian. t's also paradoxical when the goal is to accrue capital which then allows one to exercise influence of which usually leads to coercion.

-The role of Government - The governments role is supposed to limit forceful coercion and fraud. IMO government is working in collusion with certain interests that foment, profit from and cover up acts of force and fraud.

-theory of supply and demand - is only partially existent. Current gold prices in relation to actual availability is a decent example. Also the oil market of the last year or two (but also longer) is influenced in good part by speculation which has driven up prices disproportionately. Oil is also super abundant ie: plenty of supply, and also, no shortage of demand. A free market would have all sorts of people clambering to sell for the best price so they could sell more... i think you may know of the oil cartels?

Anyways, just a few points that could be expanded upon.

MMM

mothandrust · 10-19-2008, 05:25 AM

Quote:I have quick question. I know free market doesnt exist but can someone explain why? I want to know because im writing essays for school on corporations and outsourcing and stuff.
Thanks

John Pilger - The New Rulers of the World, is a good place to start. there's lots by Pilger on corporations etc. (and Palestine) - trying to think what else cos i've read tons of this stuff - 'the corporation' is both a book and a film and well worth a read/watch. 'no logo' by Naomi Klein was once considered the bible on sweatshops, EPZ's (export processing zones), SAPs (structural adjustment programs), GATS (general agreement on trades and services) and TRIPs (trade related intellectual property rights)... - perhaps it's a bit dated now and it's a big read, so unless you're serious, stick to checking out the above names through search engines. and Chomsky is good too, 'Pirates and Emperors' comes to mind but he's written lots.

i'd offer you one of my old uni papers but mostly they were not very well received:D

good luck,

harmonius · 10-19-2008, 05:43 AM

Quote:
Quote:Exploitation of other countries, like enslaving them (sweatshops)?

enslaving them, displacing them from their farmlands and coming to the U.S.A, the greatest country on earth!! Human trafficking aka illegal aliens, corrupting regional officials to instill fear locally and take their lands. Free Market is just that, Free Market for the Elite, not the people. The people do not benefit from free market, the corporations, sell-out political whores do. The people are just that, good people who like nothing more than peace and live a good life, thats all.

In Capitalism the idea is to gain capital to become better at what you do. Yes the free market is for the elite in the sense that they are free to exploit at will and you are not. they are free(er) and you are the market. It's more like a two tier system where it is loose cartelism/inclusive socialism for themselves and a different set of rules for us plebes ie: shut the fuck up, hand over your brain to us for at least 8 hours a day and thank you for the profit.

Quote:
Quote:I have quick question. I know free market doesnt exist but can someone explain why? I want to know because im writing essays for school on corporations and outsourcing and stuff.
Thanks
John Pilger - The New Rulers of the World, is a good place to start. there's lots by Pilger on corporations etc. (and Palestine) - trying to think what else cos i've read tons of this stuff - 'the corporation' is both a book and a film and well worth a read/watch. 'no logo' by Naomi Klein was once considered the bible on sweatshops, EPZ's (export processing zones), SAPs (structural adjustment programs), GATS (general agreement on trades and services) and TRIPs (trade related intellectual property rights)... - perhaps it's a bit dated now and it's a big read, so unless you're serious, stick to checking out the above names through search engines. and Chomsky is good too, 'Pirates and Emperors' comes to mind but he's written lots.

i'd offer you one of my old uni papers but mostly they were not very well received:D

good luck,

I would be wary of The Corporation by Joel Bakken because it is decent on some levels but lacks nuance almost all together. That is to say that the worlds problems are completely explainable by labeling the corporation as psychopatic. I think we should all laugh at that analysis when we realize that the corporation is usually a collection of people working for a common goal, good or bad. Mr. Bakken fails to point out that your local Korean grocer, porn shop, greasy spoon, independent gas station, the guy who put the roof on your house etc. are almost without fail acting as corporations and certainly are not bent on market or human domination.

MMM

mastermg · 10-19-2008, 06:46 AM

Wow, thanks a lot guys. We actually watched parts of The Corporation in class, but we didnt watch too much of it so I cant judge it right now. I got plenty to right about now, awesome.:)

xAMKx · 10-19-2008, 09:25 AM

That kids a moron

he thought Mccain,Thompson and Ghouliani are good conservatives and thinks abortion is murder

Fucking reich wing christens and there imaginary free markets

Hans Olo · (This post was last modified: 10-19-2008 09:46 AM by Hans Olo.)

Of course the free market exists. It's just not that easy to see because the so called "free" market ist not the free market I am talking about. I am talking about the black market - that's the free market we read about in the bible. And not only does the free market exist, but it does work very well. Look at the Marihuana market. The price is affordable, everyone makes his share of profit, from the producer to the dealer, there is supply and all this not only without government helping out, but people face jailtime for possessing Marihiana for crying out loud.

So to everyone saying, the free market doesn't exist: you are wrong, it does. The black market is the free market.

Another free market is ebay.

mothandrust · 10-19-2008, 04:48 PM

Quote:I would be wary of The Corporation by Joel Bakken because it is decent on some levels but lacks nuance almost all together. That is to say that the worlds problems are completely explainable by labeling the corporation as psychopatic. I think we should all laugh at that analysis when we realize that the corporation is usually a collection of people working for a common goal, good or bad. Mr. Bakken fails to point out that your local Korean grocer, porn shop, greasy spoon, independent gas station, the guy who put the roof on your house etc. are almost without fail acting as corporations and certainly are not bent on market or human domination.

you should be wary of all information, nothing ever can be the compete picture. 'the corporation' is undoubtedly simplified, particularly the film (but then, that is always the way with films - books are always better than films), what can you learn in a couple of hours? in reality you can spend years studying this (as i did) but your picture will never be entirely complete.

but, the difference between a corporation and your local ma and pa business, which i believe Bakkan does point out, is that a corporation is duty bound, always, to maximise profits for the shareholders. they have no choice but to behave in a psychopathic manner because maximising returns is written into law.