The Electric Car

[JazzRoc]

Quote:Don't fall into the trap of demonizing the IC Engine... the fuel is the problem... if we burned Hydrogen it would actual be beneficial as the air coming out is cleaner that the air entering the engine.

But using hydrogen a fuel cell/battery/electric motor/regenerator might be the best way, eh?

Or forget the hydrogen and grow flowers: sunflower oil/water mixture and a quasiturbine and fuck the regenerator? Who knows?

http://quasiturbine.promci.qc.ca/

I love the "scissor/paper/stone" of this debate!:)

[Guest]

http://quasiturbine.promci.qc.ca/EProduc...ustion.htm It would seem that a workable IC QT is a long way off.

Looking at their hinged rotor animation, cooling of the rotor might also pose a problem due to its low mass and lack of crank shaft to provide cool oil from the inside.
Port overlap looks like a problem too in that peripheral port design, much as it was with earlier wankels, until mazda side ported the exhaust ala rx-8.
I do like the conservation of momentum tho... I imagine it would be low vibes like the 3 wankel's I've owned.

I'm not a fuel cell fan... just gimme a 5,000 psi tank of H gas...

[Guest]

If there's any rotor-heads here other than me, they might find this and interesting read...

it makes some good points and contains some falacies like:

Quote:The center of mass of the Wankel triangular piston is moving in circle with the crank, and this whole triangular mass tends to bang the seals against the housing, requiring the protection of a housing synchronization gear.

This is not true, the seals are in constant contact... how can they bang?

Quote:The Wankel engine cannot operate in continuous combustion. While a full expansion stroke occurs (rotor revolution of 90 degrees), intake mixture compression is only partially initiated and not yet ready to be lighted (an additional 30 degrees rotor rotation is required as a dead time).

This is true but is presumptuous of a single rotor engine, which has never existed in car form... 2 or more rotors...

Quote:The Wankel needs 2 sparkplugs because of the gas rolling effect and the thin flat combustion chamber shape.

Many wankels only have single fire and the addition of the "trailing spark" was for eco-puposes, not power generation.

Quote:The center of the Wankel engine is part of the oil pan, and contains the mandatory main crankshaft.

The ECENTRIC shaft (it's not a crank) does not splash in the oilpan (ie: like normal crank counterweights) nor is it "part of" the center of the engine.
It is bolted on beneath engine just like any other car.

Quote:The Wankel engine has limited port access on lateral covers, due to the presence of the oil pan.

It's intellectual dishonesty... a dry-sump system could easily allow ports wherever a person wants to bore one.

Quote:Due to its geometry, the Wankel exhaust and intake ports overlap extensively, opening much before the expansion stroke is over, and closing much after the intake stroke has begun.

There is only true if the exhaust is peripherally ported out of the engine and out of the rotor housings.... an exhaust port on the side housing (renesis engine) makes this a moot point and the author severely behind mazda's newest rotary achievements.

[JazzRoc]

Quote:It would seem that a workable IC QT is a long way off.

Maybe not that far..

Quote:Looking at their hinged rotor animation, cooling of the rotor might also pose a problem due to its low mass and lack of crankshaft to provide cool oil from the inside.

You've put your finger on it. The carriage bearings must have a high area of contact with the rotor segments, and be flushed with coolant. The seals and clearances have to be up to snuff too.

Quote:Port overlap looks like a problem too in that peripheral port design, much as it was with earlier wankels, until mazda side ported the exhaust ala rx-8. I do like the conservation of momentum tho... I imagine it would be low vibes like the 3 wankel's I've owned.

Three, eh? Were they durable?

Common to both is a high swept area which reduces thermal efficiency. However the QT has it on minimalism. Maybe with nimonic alloy for the rotor...

Quote:I'm not a fuel cell fan... just gimme a 5,000 psi tank of H gas...

Just don't leave it leaking in your garage overnight. Walking in combing your hair...

I like the idea of a QT steam-powered houseboat touring the Canadian Lakes, picking up driftwood as it goes...

[JazzRoc]

Quote:If there's any rotor-heads here other than me, they might find this an interesting read...

I read all of it. Yes, he's biased against the Wankel idea - he's promoting this. He's French.:)

But the QT is very compact, and the Wankel is a little more complex.

I'm more of a propeller-head, personally...

[Guest]

Quote:Port overlap looks like a problem too in that peripheral port design, much as it was with earlier wankels, until mazda side ported the exhaust ala rx-8. I do like the conservation of momentum tho... I imagine it would be low vibes like the 3 wankel's I've owned.

Quote:Three, eh? Were they durable?

I've only blown one motor... it spit an apex seal out the tailpipe at 226,000 kms. I rebuilt it using rx-8 rotors/e-shaft for benefits like: less rotational mass/intertia, bigger oil galleries, higher compression (9.4 now 10.1) also dumped the 27lbs flywheel for a nice light 12lb aluminum model to further increase efficiency. For added strength I had the apex seal grooves reamed out from 2mm to 3mm and had custom seals machined... 50% more thickness for strength. I'm hoping it'll last at least 250k miles.

Quote:Common to both is a high swept area which reduces thermal efficiency. However the QT has it on minimalism. Maybe with nimonic alloy for the rotor...

Ceramic coating the rotor faces will help. That's what I did with my rotors.. the heat stays in the gasses more and doesn't get into the steel as much. In addition to that
I've found with the new motor, the ceramic coating also helps carbon buildup and your oil stays a nice golden brown for much much longer.

Quote:I'm not a fuel cell fan... just gimme a 5,000 psi tank of H gas...

Quote:Just don't leave it leaking in your garage overnight. Walking in combing your hair...

There is no faster escaping gas known to man... iow it's harder for H gas to build up in a garage than say gasoline fumes which don't rise the same.

Quote:I like the idea of a QT steam-powered houseboat touring the Canadian Lakes, picking up driftwood as it goes...

I'd settle for a nice canoe... I miss that...i used to canoe/portage/camp a lot as a child.

Have you seen this? http://www.fuelvaporcar.com/index.html It looks interesting and has a nice range...

[Guest]

Quote:

Quote:If there's any rotor-heads here other than me, they might find this an interesting read...

I read all of it. Yes, he's biased against the Wankel idea - he's promoting this. He's French.:)

But the QT is very compact, and the Wankel is a little more complex.

I'm more of a propeller-head, personally...

And just how many wankel style rotary engines are in planes? :D It seems to be many gas powered aviators favorites.

[Hans Olo]

Quote:Don't fall into the trap of demonizing the IC Engine... the fuel is the problem... if we burned Hydrogen it would actual be beneficial as the air coming out is cleaner that the air entering the engine.

Fair enough, but about hydrogen I'd also want to know, why burn it in the car instead of a power plant? How is it more practicable to buy fuel, use filling stations, etc.. when you can just as well plug it in at home?

Don't get me wrong guys, I still think a combustion engine is a marvellous machine and useful when there is no other energy source around. Or think about airplanes, the large kind. There will be plenty of fuel burning for a long time to come.

Have I mentioned I want! one of those Tesla Roadster thingies?

[JazzRoc]

Quote:Fair enough, but about hydrogen I'd also want to know, why burn it in the car instead of a power plant? How is it more practicable to buy fuel, use filling stations, etc.. when you can just as well plug it in at home?

Making it in the first place is very lossy. This is an interesting comments page:
http://quasiturbine.promci.qc.ca/ETypeHydrogen.htm

Quote:Don't get me wrong guys, I still think a combustion engine is a marvellous machine and useful when there is no other energy source around. Or think about airplanes, the large kind. There will be plenty of fuel burning for a long time to come.

Yes, I agree. Batteries are still too heavy for long-range use.

Quote:Have I mentioned I want! one of those Tesla Roadster thingies?

LOL. Yes you have!:D

[JazzRoc]

Thanks for the heads-up on your Wankels.

Quote:Have you seen this? http://www.fuelvaporcar.com/index.html It looks interesting and has a nice range...

Hmmph!

Three-wheelers are God's way of ensuring you hit every bump in the road...

"Corner better than four-wheelers"? My arse. I've been more frightened in several Morgan 3-wheelers, an early Bond "tricycle", an Isetta or two, and a Reliant, than ANY car except an old Rover with a bent front beam axle. Maybe I should try one of those Messerschmitts, and complete the experience, masochismwise...:D

[Guest]

Quote:Have I mentioned I want! one of those Tesla Roadster thingies?

You and me both... but it is a little bit.. hmmm "borrowed" in it's looks.
It''s like taking the original Lotus and pimping it out with a shit bodykit.
It's too recognizable.

BTW, I'm not knocking lotus looks... my TVR is the evolution of an original
design by ex-Lotus designer Oliver Winterbottem... has hints of Lotus all over it.

In the case of the Tesla, it's just too obvious. Still want one tho...:D

[Guest]

Quote:Thanks for the heads-up on your Wankels.

Quote:Have you seen this? http://www.fuelvaporcar.com/index.html It looks interesting and has a nice range...

Hmmph!

Three-wheelers are God's way of ensuring you hit every bump in the road...

"Corner better than four-wheelers"? My arse. I've been more frightened in several Morgan 3-wheelers, an early Bond "tricycle", an Isetta or two, and a Reliant, than ANY car except an old Rover with a bent front beam axle. Maybe I should try one of those Messerschmitts, and complete the experience, masochismwise...:D

ME262 tricycle would suit me fine...:D

Are reverse-trikes really that bad? I could definately see the potential for oversteer on the rear wheel...

[JazzRoc]

YES.:(

[rsol]

Quote:

Quote:The second question is, should we replace our legacy of oil / gas - based combustion engines with modern, clean, silent electric cars? My answer is YES we should, this would benefit the environment greatly. Is that the only thing we should do? NO, we should still replace the basis for that energy with something better.

Don't fall into the trap of demonizing the IC Engine... the fuel is the problem... if we burned Hydrogen it would
actual be beneficial as the air coming out is cleaner that the air entering the engine.

I dont agree that hydrogen will be a problem free concept. If there is going to more water vapor being produced by this action, i'm not sure this will help with global warming. water i the air doesn't lower temps:)

The point of hydrogen is, you cant make it. not just like that. plus you cant store it, just like that. You need an inferstructer for it to happen. Thats what auto makers want. something they can bury themselves into society like a tick and never be able to be pushed out. Electric car/ regarddless of its present falcies is a possible independent vehicle. Run out of fuel? thats ok just wait for it to recharge:)

Fly wheel is in context of a power source using electricity as its in AND out. nothing mechanicle connected to it. Not traditional flywheel for helping the engine turn over. A power plant and storage device in one:)

[Hans Olo]

Quote:Electric car regarddless of its present falcies is a possible independent vehicle.

Relatively independent, yes, and that's exactly why powerful people don't want us to have them. I'm stating the obvious here, but I think mass production of these cars might change a lot of things in the right direction.