The Electric Car

[Hans Olo]

I agree with you on every point except the first sentence:

Quote:I have no problem with electric cars but before we make them, we have to have a way to produce the electricity cleanly.

Why "before"? Can't we do two things at once? Why so linear? All the electric car is going to do is make us use more coal and burn less gas. How about having cleaner air in the cities instantly? And btw how are you supposed to even get any gas when the oil price is rising so high? Gas is way to expensive, you can't seriously go on forever this way, robbing middle eastern countries blind for cheap oil and letting the Saudis take over the world with dollars you guys paid them. You just can't go on like that. Just can't.
With electric cars, there would be a fair competition for who delivers the cheapest, cleanest energy. Now all you have is an American Oil Imperium.

Anyway, we agree on 90% of the issue, I made my point clear, you have the last word on this.

[hilly7]

I'm linear in the before the switch because that is what has killed this country, looking out for ourselves, ie individuals. Ones own benefit at the expense of another.


Lets weigh our options. 1 - Allow middle east to make a little, the World Bank and IMF to make a lot while working on REAL soultions that benefit all.

2- Posion the shit out of our air with Mercury and even if we can figure out clean coal technology, then again we can't even make a soft drink soft, destroy people's lives and wreck our enviornment by once again putting money in a limited resource where a few PTB make money, the World Bank and IMF makes insane amounts of money, the country goes indebted even futher with these people to build the machinery to enslave us.

Fair competition? Where have you been the last 30 years, maybe longer? We are going to have to find a renewable, cleaner energy. Cheap is just that cheap, but what is the total price, very expensive. Maybe not to the end user at first, but later. I'm sure when oil first started it was like the coal arguement of today and just like the arguement of "We will do better tomorrow", tomorrow never comes, when it does, it is today, and tomorrow may just be too late.


Hydrogen, there is a solution that could work until then. Simple, cost effective, but they just can't figure out how to charge for it. Air power, again, how hard would it be to created a compressor onboard that generates it's own air? If we can air ride trucks and bag cars, how hard would would that be?


We agree on something needs to be done, but I for one am tired of setting for the old heads I win, Tales you lose crap we keep get peddled.

[Hans Olo]

I still disagree with you..

Quote:I'm linear in the before the switch because that is what has killed this country, looking out for ourselves, ie individuals. Ones own benefit at the expense of another.

I don't see any connection. To me this is purely a technical question.

Quote:Lets weigh our options. 1 - Allow middle east to make a little, the World Bank and IMF to make a lot while working on REAL soultions that benefit all.

Been there, tried that. There won't be a real solution as long as the middle East, oil companies and special interest groups get stinking rich with the old system. They are not interested in solutions that benefit us all. And let's be fair. Option one means poison the shit out of our air with lead and carbonmonoxide (which is a deadly poison) and a few dozend other chemicals. Gasoline fuel is not clean at all. Just look at the damn smog.

Quote:2- Posion the shit out of our air with Mercury and even if we can figure out clean coal technology, then again we can't even make a soft drink soft, destroy people's lives and wreck our enviornment by once again putting money in a limited resource where a few PTB make money, the World Bank and IMF makes insane amounts of money, the country goes indebted even futher with these people to build the machinery to enslave us.

Well, as a costumer you will be able to choose a different, cleaner energy source. With an electric car you can go make contracts with clean power companies.

Quote:Fair competition? Where have you been the last 30 years, maybe longer?

What do you mean where have I been? You are not making sense right now.

Quote:We are going to have to find a renewable, cleaner energy.

I am not arguing with you there. I just don't see how it is better to drive around with little powerplants that burn fossil fuel everywhere you go. That's ancient technology from 100+ years ago. They had no electric batteries or chargers back then. There's no technical advantage at all about having your combustion engine with you. The only time this principle made any sense, and only economically so, was when gas was dirt cheap.

Quote:Cheap is just that cheap, but what is the total price, very expensive. Maybe not to the end user at first, but later.

I'm sure when oil first started it was like the coal arguement of today and just like the arguement of "We will do better tomorrow", tomorrow never comes, when it does, it is today, and tomorrow may just be too late.

That's exactly what you're doing. I am saying "electric car" and you're saying "tomorrow, but first we must accomplish something impossible and only then we do something that can easily be done".

Quote:Hydrogen, there is a solution that could work until then. Simple, cost effective, but they just can't figure out how to charge for it. Air power, again, how hard would it be to created a compressor onboard that generates it's own air? If we can air ride trucks and bag cars, how hard would would that be?

Wouldn't it be much easier and cheaper to just use a battery and then use this creativity where the power is generated? Think "big, clean power plant" instead of "millions of small, clean power plants" I still don't see why everyone has to have a small power plant in the car, when a battery would do.

Quote:We agree on something needs to be done, but I for one am tired of setting for the old heads I win, Tales you lose crap we keep get peddled.

Well you gotta see the oil companies' interests in all of this. They are against the electric car, because it's gonna break their necks, and that's one reason why I am all for it.

[JazzRoc]

Quote:- They are more silent which is an environmental advantage right there.

Not if your pet or child gets run over.

Quote:- The emissions are about the same, but they will be emitted at one place, the power plant, and not "everywhere the car goes".

They're not the same. Coal plants emit radioactive effluents.

Quote:- Also, if they find an alternative source of energy right now, imagine, every car would be able to use the new energy right then and there. Not possible with combustion engines.

I hope you're not thinking of "zero-point" energy. The redundant word there is "point".

Quote:- People with solar collectors on their roofs will be able to power their own car with their own energy.

Not if you do the sums. What would be useful is a photo-synthesizing roof that converted sunlight, water, and CO2 into decane (diesel).

Quote:- Power plants don't burn oil, they burn coal, which is much, much cheaper.

But completely cleaning up the effluents and electric line transmission losses raise the cost back up.

Quote:Anyone care to argue?

I love a good argument.:)

[hilly7]

Here in one scene gives an ideal of what it was like to live in coal generated society . http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=44...dAw&q=tesla . You also get the history of how before it was oil it was coal and why there are alternatives, genisus is supressed.

Now since we have already invested all this money into combustible engines and they are here, a combination of both perhaps after electricity is generated by something other than coal or nuclear. I would say free but since the Great Lakes were just sold to corporations and the Amazon River Basin is owned by the World Bank and IMF, the oceans will probably be next. lol.


Here is why you don't see anything new coming out as a resolve, unless of course it serves TPTB as coal does. http://www.h2earth.org/Memorial.htm , http://www.stevequayle.com/dead_scientists...Scientists.html


Just a few possiblities http://www.pureenergysystems.com/os/index.html , http://www.pureenergysystems.com/os/EdGray.../bio/index.html .


And that is just the tip of the iceberg. You can trustingly settle, I don't. Coal, Oil, Nuclear, it is still slavery and control.

[---]

Quote:I love a good argument.:)

how about something to do with evolution then...;)

http://conspiracycentral.info/index.php?s=...st&p=154024

[JazzRoc]

But, getting back to it, there is a lot to be said for the electric car.

But, before we begin, is there anyone that has anything to say about zero point energy?

[hilly7]

Heavily supressed.

[JazzRoc]

Quote:Heavily supressed.

Cluck.

Please replace the missing "p".

[hilly7]

Quote:

Quote:Heavily supressed.

Cluck.

Please replace the missing "p".

Thank you, I must have had to take a "P".

[JazzRoc]

Hilly, i hope it wasn't me that caused you to run out of the room for a p.

The one great advantage of an electric car is regenerative braking, where about 64% of the energy usually wasted as heat while braking may be made available to once more accelerate the car.

The troubles of transmission losses down power lines may be transcended by using solid-state solar roofs at home to provide the charge (or part of it) to power the car for the part/whole of the day.

There are a couple of wonderfully-compact engine designs which perhaps could supersede the piston/crank IC engine.

With a judicious twist of solar/biodiesel hybridization maybe the future of personal transportation lies just ahead of us.

[hilly7]

LOL, No, it's my spelling, I suck at it. As the Jolly Green Giant once said, Everybody needs a good pea. (Showing my age there).

I'm not against the electric car, great ideal, as long as we use something other than Nuclear and Coal to generate electricity. There are a lot of good inventions that could be used and/or improved upon however I don't forsee them allowing any of the ideals out, they can't charge and control us with them. I'm definately not against solar, have been switching my outside lights to run on them. The technology needs some serious work released, God knows they have experimented on Africans enough to have made advancements. Until there is a complete uprising, I don't see TBTP allowing anything beneficial to be widely produced or even allowed in main stream public.

Cars could also be converted to H2O, it is not logical that everybody could go buy a new car these days, possibly conversions for the transition period that could be continued with an alternative. http://www.h2earth.org/Memorial.htm , this also ain't likely to happen.

[Hans Olo]

Switch cars first, powerplants later. That's because only when people have an electric car they will think of new ways to power it.

[hilly7]

Wish it worked that way, but it don't. People in general are too stupid and TPTB are too greedy.

[Hans Olo]

Quote:Wish it worked that way, but it don't. People in general are too stupid and TPTB are too greedy.

I don't get your argument. People are too stupid... to do what? TPTB are too greedy so... what?