Does Evil Exist?

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Quote:But then I am the only person I have ever met who does not beleive in evil, I am quite proud of that. But, that is another discussion.

http://www.forensicpanel.com/aboutus/press...lpsychassoc.htm

http://ponerology.blogspot.com/

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story...Id=6268489

http://www.ponerology.com/

[mothandrust]

JJ Roussea Wrote:Oh man! Look no further for the author of evil, you are he. There is no evil but the evil you do and the evil you suffer, and both come from yourself

there is no evil in nature

[mastermg]

Evil is what defies what our conscious tells us is right, I think. So sure, it exists in the minds of the humans.

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Quote:

JJ Roussea Wrote:Oh man! Look no further for the author of evil, you are he. There is no evil but the evil you do and the evil you suffer, and both come from yourself

there is no evil in nature

some [other] primate groups have been shown to display psychopathic behaviour on occasion.

[mothandrust]

Quote:

Quote:

JJ Roussea Wrote:Oh man! Look no further for the author of evil, you are he. There is no evil but the evil you do and the evil you suffer, and both come from yourself

there is no evil in nature

some [other] primate groups have been shown to display psychopathic behaviour on occasion.

i don't doubt it - i've seen (what i would judge to be) horrible behaviour traits amongst baboons - although i would also say, the very fact it is being witnessed by humans compromises the findings.

but whatever, it is still a judgement call.

[JazzRoc]

On the ball. Just check your mirror.

Evidence of psychopathic behaviour in other creatures IS evidence of their intelligence. Nobody's perfect...

[mexika]

Yes,

Evil is the Vatican, Republicans, DemoCats, Christianity, deceived democracy, rich people, poor people, and you, all of you. except me....

Nature is Nature....the greatest evil is the humans, but more so the Educated Humans who are the worst because education in the capitalist way or European ways and to an extent Asian ways are dysfunctional...


Native Americans tend to be more with nature, less evil and more in tuned with civility, natural, and respecting of anything and everything....

[mexika]

Also, cultured people tend to be less evil since uncultured people tend to be more capitalist, greedy, to some extent sub-human and show characteristics of savagery and beast like behavior. Cultured people tend to build instead of destroying. Cultured people tend to be more respecting of other cultures instead of invading and killing them and destroying their culture. At the moment, the United States is the most savage place on the planet earth because it preaches humanity, democracy, good harmony and it does the reverse. Culture is less evil because it embraces nature and not self-fulfillment...

Show me a person with culture and than show a person with no culture and will tell you who has a more beast like mentality and who is more human....


Show me a nation with culture and show me a nation with no culture and I will finger decadence and twisted amoral...

Show me those and I will join the human than the wicked beast...


but the most evil combination of all is Politics and Religion. Aka Bush and Klan Satanists who are basically in simplest pure terms....TRUE DEVILS...

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Quote:We have not yet grasped the demonic possibilities of mediocrity. - Erich Heller

I would posit myself in the camp of moral Universalism. I think that the system we have thrown up around us over the last few hundred years as a species values aggressive individualism more than anything else - at least as a meme presented to the individuated psyche - in reality it is more oriented to a drone like structure,obviously..this keen deployment of the myth of overriding self importance as a tool of control even being evidenced in progressive concepts of personal liberty - thereby creating a multifaceted catch 22 whereby connection to others is stultified - by the very process of othering, itself.

The combine has swiftly learnt how to capitalise upon this to great magnitude, imho, resulting in a widely proffered and sacntioned form; a confused dynamic existing between neurotic obsession with self and a bastardised version of utilitarianism which must always necessitate a loser - the species cannot function without there being consignment of those who are to lose out, whether it be socially or economically etc. - what's the alternative? the menace of the mass man and collectivisation? That's what we're implicitly taught to believe, in the west anyhow.

I believe, the prevailing acceptance of this - as it being 'the innate way of things' is, in itself, very much a subtle exemplification of the 'banality of evil' and I am inclined to agree with Benjamin B. Wolman in the contention that human society as a whole, in this era of mass communication and an increasingly homogeneous corporate culture is in itself, moving closer and closer toward a psychopathic condition.

A perfect pretense for the chronically sociopathic to drop the bomb without anyone raising objection.

Evil exists, yes imo

[triplesix]

Mexika, normally I tolerate your idiosyncratic, hyperbolic, and hypocritical diatribes on the racism of other cultures when, truthfully, you are probably the most racist active member of the forum. But that isn't really the crime that motivated me to respond to your post.

I wanted to illustrate the fact that recently, far-leftist ideology, particularly among the environmentalist set, has shown an increasingly reactionary glorification of "old ways" and the vilification of our current system as fundamentally broken and entirely destructive. This has been coupled with a rejection of reality in the generalizations applied to the so-called Golden Age of mankind's primitive past. Ancient cultures are now said to be devoid of chaos, peaceful, bountiful, full of equality, brotherly care, and connectedness to nature.

Historically there is little to verify these misconceptions. We now track conflicts on a global scale. The most minor insurrection is displayed for the world to see. Conflicts become wars in the airing of a few news broadcasts. If you had this level of omniscience in tracking the world of the ancient past, I do not think for a minute you would have any trouble, at any specific time in history, discovering a genocide or skirmish act of war, happening somewhere in the world. This also at a time when to launch a military campaign put an almost overwhelming burden on any nation-state and when global populations were fractions of what they are today and frontiers existed for humanity to spread out and leave enemies if need be. Times have changed and we don't enjoy these blessings.

The Native American culture is often cited as the reference for such utopian societies. However, we don't have much information on ancient Native American culture. Most of their history was passed on orally for thousands of years. Often in oral histories in many cultures throughout the world the theme of an ancient, ordered, peaceful, enlightened past predating the modern erratic society can be found again and again. In Ancient China it is known as a fact that in Chinese pre-history their society was ruled by enlightened sage-kings who ordered the land in ultimate fairness, guiding society with complete wisdom. In the Ancient Chinese world-view, the best form of government was an enlightened monarch ordained by an infinitely wise god, a benevolent dictator in contemporary newspeak.

In any event, there are things of value from ancient cultures, and there are things of value in our modern society. I'm not going to argue that the track record of the White Man is anything to be particularly proud of, at least if you want to focus on White folks negative contributions to the world, but I think you could spend quite a long time listing life-changing and life-enhancing contributions by White people. But what the hell is a "White Person" anyway? Where do you draw the ethnic line in the sand? Are Russians "White People"? Their historical contribution to the world is quite different from other "white people." It's all horse shit. In reality, we are born as new consciousness and only observe petty five-sense differentiations between one another when conceptually, mentally, creatively, intuitively we know all people are the same. I was born a white person but does that make me guilty of the sins of "white people" of the past? Does it entitle me to take pride in the accomplishments of other "white people?" It doesn't mean anything.

Put simply, Mexica, you cherry-pick facts because your claims are intrinsically wrong. There is no way to apply conceptualized culture to specific races. It is empirically demonstrable that any human can conceive of any concept. What one culture does one way and another culture does another way are 'human' responses to the same dilemma. It is only by chance that one culture wears robes or another shirts and pants. Both are attempting to clothe themselves and both are human answers to the need for warmth. Not Japanese and European answers or whatever.

People may seem different on the outside, but we all have the same guts, the same emotions, the same awareness and the same natal consciousness. From there individuals must be made forces of negativity for them to be one. In that respect, the true enemy of mankind is the forces of the universe that shape negative behavioral responses in the form of 'bad people' and the savior of mankind is the recognition in the value and the resultant behavioral applications of 'good people.' In this sense, I have returned to the nature of the question and I can say there is no evil in nature and no force of evil acting on men.

There is only evil in the world when people think thoughts they know to be wrong, as all people will do at some time or another, and instead of resisting acting on the impulse, as their empathic social conscience demands, people do what they know to be evil. Worse yet, people with developed consciousness will, often but not always with evil intent, inhibit the development of empathic conscience in budding consciousnesses, particularly in compartmentalized ways, forbidding them from developing the empathy needed to instill a recognition of the evil nature of the behavior in question. What I mean is, people who know better can manipulate those who don't know, so that both can do evil, and only those who know better realize they are doing evil, those who don't know only believe they are doing the right thing.

In this sense, evil is objective in the universe, but is, like anything else, experienced subjectively. I, for one, believe eating meat is unnecessary, unless obviously situations dictate otherwise, and could stretch this to say the taking of innocent life for gluttonous purposes is evil. I grew up my whole life enjoying eating meat so I find this a difficult ideal to uphold. I still eat meat probably three days out of the week. But my point is this, my parents didn't raise me to eat meat because they understood it was evil and unnecessary and wanted to do society and me a deal of harm. In many ways, other people will raise their kids their way, and not even realize they are instilling evil in their child and their children will grow up thinking themselves good people.

Lao Tzu wrote in the 6th Chapter of the Tao Te Ching about a concept he described as 'xu yong' 虛用. Xu means emptiness or void and yong means to use. He was describing how usefulness and emptiness are not mutually exclusive. An example often given is of a clay pot. The pot has a value in that it is made of clay and someone labored on it, but it is the emptiness inside the pot that we actually need. The clay pot will be used forever not because it is clay, but because it creates a useful space.

Good and evil are clay pots. They are useful in that good implies something positive and evil implies something negative but this same definition makes them useless. They are like the clay of the pot. What we put into the pot is what matters and is of infinite greater importance than the pots themselves.

Many meditations,
Peace,
666

[mexika]

Quote:Mexika, normally I tolerate your idiosyncratic, hyperbolic, and hypocritical diatribes on the racism of other cultures when, truthfully, you are probably the most racist active member of the forum. But that isn't really the crime that motivated me to respond to your post.





The Native American culture is often cited as the reference for such utopian societies. However, we don't have much information on ancient Native American culture. Most of their history was passed on orally for thousands of years. Often in oral histories in many cultures throughout the world the theme of an ancient, ordered, peaceful, enlightened past predating the modern erratic society can be found again and again. In Ancient China it is known as a fact that in Chinese pre-history their society was ruled by enlightened sage-kings who ordered the land in ultimate fairness, guiding society with complete wisdom. In the Ancient Chinese world-view, the best form of government was an enlightened monarch ordained by an infinitely wise god, a benevolent dictator in contemporary newspeak.

Many meditations,
Peace,
666

Well, you might not know or understand the historical aspects of the native american. But I do, because I am of native american traditions and you could care less about that. In reference to being born WHITE, come on man...you were not born white. You were born human with an ancient past, but since you do not know it you have decided to call yourself white. Being white is only in America, not Europe. In europe, you are French, Russian, Finnish, German, Iraqi, or what not. But In America, you are born white after a white house in Washington DC, thats ridiculous and it only shows and displays white supremacy.

I know my ancient past and I know the native american traditions and culture and I know the respect Native american have towards The Earth, Mother Earth, and I know that Native Americans have a high respect for any people of color, even if you call yourself white. We also strive for culture and building and do not destroy just because we feel like it. Respect is given to all cultures and people and their religion, their true religion as being true to it. But capitalist or america does not respect native American religion and deems it as being of the devil or of heathens. Trully, we can see who is the racist ones.

When people forget their past, they become beasts. They become amoral because they do not want to remember the past and they do not want to correct the future based on the past, a book of corrections and consciousness based on wrongs to fix the present.

None the less, people with culture have respect for anything and anyone. None Cultured people simply exist for individual fulfillment, indifferent, and afraid of others.


You should start reading some native american books, maybe you will understand what native americans have been saying for the last 220 and so years, not that you would care about native american history!

At the present moment as I type, America is being censored from the rest of the good world. Indoctrinating people called Americans, more like stupid drones, to feel good about themselves, to shop, to consume, to behave and be a materialistic individual like the white house empire in D.C. It is a mirror of your statehood to be american or having roman empire characteristics. And if you say something that should not be said, the Romans Rise up crucify you because if you are not with them, than you must be against them (Romans). So much for democracy, liberty, freedom and justice. Its a damn joke, and americans, precisely white americans are a joke and bush and all those zionist are laughing at all of you for being so trustworthy of your leaders, of empire, of being brainwashed with materialistic candy. Yes, Evil in America exists and its next door or maybe you but you do not want to admit your hypocrisy of a good american. You can be evil without you realizing that you are evil, brainwashed thinking that you are good, when in reality you are the Devil. Clearly, bush had the last laugh and all Americans were robed blind!!! Such Evil.....

[mastermg]

Im sorry to bag on you Mexica but Iraq is not in Europe. Peace

[deathstickboy]

"evil" is just a human judgment call, and does not exist outside our own classifications.

Its just a concept humans use to label events.

So fundamentally it does not really exist.

[mexika]

Quote:Im sorry to bag on you Mexica but Iraq is not in Europe. Peace

oh yea...

Soon they will be, hopefully not. but empire thirsts for greed.

And yes, evil is a concept we use to denote the negative. Negative Energy, bad magic, sorcery as apposed to magic / positive energy, good.

[mastermg]

Id add Israel to that list too Mexica.