The History of YHWH the Demon God

[Shinobi]

[JuDiTh]

This is my first post, and maybe not be taken seriously by everyone. But I think the claims about the Illuminat/Freemasons/Jews-connection, and the question who they really worship is spinning out of all proportions.

If we are to take all these claims seriously, I would like to make the following claim:

One of the keys of Gnosis hidden by the Schribes of G*d's chosen people is the fact that the name 'Israel' should be read as follows: 'IS RA-EL' - the -EL ending frequently used throughout the Bible (Micha-el, Gabri-el, Emanu-el, Samu-el), and, if I'm not totally mistaken, meaning 'G*d'. (Emanu-el - G*d is with us/With us is G*d).

If we are to take my claim seriously, Israel is worshipping, or maybe are itself, the Egyptian Sun God RA. A sign hidden in 'plain view' - true Illuminati style. The trinity would then be as follows: Ra, Horus, Set.

Where to put the Messiah in this? Well, many scholars point to the simmilarities between Horus and Christ - quite many, infact - too many to list up here, but Google it, and you'll be wiser.

What my point here is, are the fact that if a claim is made, and you find information supporting your claim, discussed back and forth - doesn't make it true.

But it sure would fit nice into the picture if my 'Israel'-clame was true, considering several simmilarities between Egyptian religions and the Hebrew/Christian one.

[CharliePrime]

(06-24-2012 05:51 PM)Anarchist Wrote:  The purpose I intended was for the first part to include quotes from top Masons, to establish that they do indeed worship Lucifer

If this is your thesis, you need to consider what Tim said above.

Take apart everything he said and honestly evaluate each of his assertions.

I can't help you with that research because I'm new to the study of spiritual traditions. I was an atheist for the last thirty years, so I studied economics, politics, and public policy. What Tim said sounds correct to my new, limited understanding of these mystery school things.

Keep parsing this stuff out! It's the greatest adventure.

[Anarchist]

(07-04-2012 08:05 AM)JuDiTh Wrote:  This is my first post, and maybe not be taken seriously by everyone. But I think the claims about the Illuminat/Freemasons/Jews-connection, and the question who they really worship is spinning out of all proportions.

If we are to take all these claims seriously, I would like to make the following claim:

One of the keys of Gnosis hidden by the Schribes of G*d's chosen people is the fact that the name 'Israel' should be read as follows: 'IS RA-EL' - the -EL ending frequently used throughout the Bible (Micha-el, Gabri-el, Emanu-el, Samu-el), and, if I'm not totally mistaken, meaning 'G*d'. (Emanu-el - G*d is with us/With us is G*d).

If we are to take my claim seriously, Israel is worshipping, or maybe are itself, the Egyptian Sun God RA. A sign hidden in 'plain view' - true Illuminati style. The trinity would then be as follows: Ra, Horus, Set.

Where to put the Messiah in this? Well, many scholars point to the simmilarities between Horus and Christ - quite many, infact - too many to list up here, but Google it, and you'll be wiser.

What my point here is, are the fact that if a claim is made, and you find information supporting your claim, discussed back and forth - doesn't make it true.

But it sure would fit nice into the picture if my 'Israel'-clame was true, considering several simmilarities between Egyptian religions and the Hebrew/Christian one.

Sounds like someone just watched Zeitgeist and believed everything it said. The trinity is fake, El does not mean "G*d" (why people put an astrik over the o I do not know, please explain that), but power. Ra is just convenient coincidence, which following Zeitgeist, when people pray and say "amen" (which means "let it be true"), because it sounds like the English "amen-Ra", they are praising a sun god. Christ was not born Dec , that is the Winter solstice. The Christ modern Christianity teaches is none other than Tammuz, son of Semiramis, "Queen of the Heavens" (same title Catholics give to Mary, since according to their trinity, she birthed "Jesus, so she birthed God, so she is the mother of God and Queen of the Heavens). Tammuz was, according to story, Nimrod incarnate. He was not white either, and the image you see of him with the sun disk halo behind him, that picture is of Cesare Borgia, a Jesuit. Do some research on Zeitgeist, and see what you find. I know there was a guy, if I find his site or video I will edit this post, he is offering a $5000 cash reward for anyone who can verify the claims of Zeitgeist.

Have fun researching and welcome to ConCen!

---

(06-24-2012 08:07 PM)Tim Wrote:  

(06-23-2012 07:55 PM)Anarchist Wrote:  Masonry is Luciferian:

"That which we must say to a crowd is - We worship a God, but it is the God that one adores without superstition. To you, Sovereign Grand Inspectors General, we say this, that you may repeat it to the Brethren of the 32nd, 31st, and 30th degrees - The Masonic Religion should be, by all of us initates of the high degrees, maintained in the purity of the Luciferian Doctrine. If Lucifer were not God, would Adonay whose deeds prove his cruelty, perdify and hatred of man, barbarism and repulsion for science, would Adonay and his priests, calumniate him? Yes, Lucifer is God, and unfortunately Adonay is also god. For the eternal law is that there is no light without shade, no beauty without ugliness, no white without black, for the absolute can only exist as two gods: darkness being necessary to the statue, and the brake to the locomotive. Thus, the doctrine of Satanism is a heresy; and the true and pure philosophical religion is the belief in Lucifer, the equal of Adonay; but Lucifer, God of Light and God of Good, is struggling for humanity against Adonay, the God of Darkness and Evil."

-Albert Pike, 33° Grand Mason, Page 558, Instructions to the 23 Supreme Councils of the World, July 14, 1889. Recorded by A.C. De La Rive in La Femme et l'Enfant dans la FrancMaconnerie Universelle.

Like I said, the above passage is a fabrication, invented by De La Rive as part of his reporting on the Leo Taxil / Gabriel Jogand-Pagès Hoax:
http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/Blog/?p=3980
Also, Pike's falsely attributed "WWIII" quote is similarly a fabrication:
http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/Article...d-Wars.htm

(06-23-2012 07:55 PM)Anarchist Wrote:  Albert Pike was a 33° Mason, founder of the KKK, and one of the most prominent Freemasons to exist. In his book Morals and Dogma, he states:

"Lucifer, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the son of the morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with its splendors intolerable blinds feeble, sensual or selfish Souls? Doubt it not!"

-Morals and Dogma page 321.

There is NO EVIDENCE that Pike founded the KKK. None at all.
http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/anti-masonry/kkk.html
A Pike connection was first attributed posthumously, in 1905, by Klan sympathizer and biographer Walter L. Fleming.

The Morals & Dogma quote is cherry-picked and out-of-context. Here it is in full:

"The Apocalypse, that sublime Kabalistic and prophetic Summary of all the occult figures, divides its images into three Septenaries, after each of which there is silence in Heaven. There are Seven Seals to be opened, that is to say, Seven mysteries to know, and Seven difficulties to overcome, Seven trumpets to sound, and Seven cups to empty.

The Apocalypse is, to those who receive the nineteenth Degree, the Apotheosis of that Sublime Faith which aspires to God alone, and despises all the pomps and works of Lucifer. LUCIFER, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with its splendors intolerable blinds feeble, sensual, or selfish Souls? Doubt it not! for traditions are full of Divine Revelations and Inspirations: and Inspiration is not of one Age nor of one Creed. Plato and Philo, also, were inspired.

The Apocalypse, indeed, is a book as obscure as the Sohar.

It is written hieroglyphically with numbers and images; and the Apostle often appeals to the intelligence of the Initiated. "Let him who hath knowledge, understand! let him who understands, calculate!" he often says, after an allegory or the mention of a number. Saint John, the favorite Apostle, and the Depositary of all the Secrets of the Saviour, therefore did not write to be understood by the multitude.

The Sephar Yezirah, the Sohar, and the Apocalypse are the completest embodiments of Occultism. They contain more meanings than words; their expressions are figurative as poetry and exact as numbers. The Apocalypse sums up, completes, and surpasses all the Science of Abraham and of Solomon. The visions of Ezekiel, by the river Chebar, and of the new Symbolic Temple, are equally mysterious expressions, veiled by figures of the enigmatic dogmas of the Kabalah, and their symbols are as little understood by the Commentators, as those of Free Masonry."

Morals & Dogma, p.320-321

Somewhat different in context, huh? Did you not see the line "which aspires to God alone, and despises all the pomps and works of Lucifer"? This is why I think you simply copy & pasted parts without fact-checking or reading these quotes in context.

(06-23-2012 07:55 PM)Anarchist Wrote:  Manly Palmer Hall, 33° Mason, wrote a well known book titled “The Secret Teachings of All Ages”, in which Hall claims:

"I hereby promise the Great Spirit Lucifuge, Prince of Demons, that each year I will bring unto him a human soul to do with as it may please him, and in return Lucifuge promises to bestow upon me the treasures of the earth and fulfill my every desire for the length of my natural life. If I fail to bring him each year the offering specified above, then my own soul shall be forfeit to him. Signed..... { Invocant signs pact with his own blood }”

-The Secret Teaching Of All Ages, page CIV.

This is disingenuous cherry-picking again. Hall is reprinting a "genuine" medieval pact in his section on Ceremonial Magic and Sorcery:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/eso/sta/sta24.htm
He does not prescribe, recommend or condone the pact, as your cherry-picked quote implies. He is merely reprinting the pact for historical and scholarly purposes, in context.

Also, Secret Teachings of All Ages was written in 1928 when Hall was only 27 years old, and 47 years before he joined freemasonry in 1973!

The book is FULL of inaccuracies and flights of fancy.

(06-23-2012 07:55 PM)Anarchist Wrote:  However, that was not his only book, as he published over 150 other works, including “The Lost Keys of Freemasonry”. In it, he states:

"When The Mason learns that the Key to the warrior on the block is the proper application of the dynamo of living power, he has learned the Mystery of his Craft. The seething energies of Lucifer are in his hands and before he may step onward and upward, he must prove his ability to properly apply this energy."

-The Lost Keys of Freemasonry, Page 48.

The Lost Keys of Freemasonry was written in 1923 when Hall was just 22 years old, 50 years before becoming a freemason.

Again, this quote is taken out of context. The full quote is:

"The day has come when Fellow Craftsmen must know and apply their knowledge. The lost key to their grade is the mastery of emotion, which places the energy of the universe at their disposal. Man can only expect to be entrusted with great power by proving his ability to use it constructively and selflessly. When the Mason learns that the key to the warrior on the block is the proper application of the dynamo of living power, he has learned the mystery of his Craft. The seething energies of Lucifer are in his hands and before he may step onward and upward, he must prove his ability to properly apply energy. He must follow in the footsteps of his forefather, Tubal-Cain, who with the mighty strength of the war god hammered his sword into a plowshare.

Incessant vigilance over thought, action, and desire is indispensable to those who wish to make progress in the unfolding of their own being, and the Fellow Craft's degree is the degree of transmutation. The hand that slays must lift the fallen, while the lips given to cursing must be taught to pray. The heart that hates must learn the mystery of compassion, as the result of a deeper and more perfect understanding of man's relation to his brother. The firm, kind hand of spirit must curb the flaming powers of emotion with an iron grip. In the realization and application of these principles lies the key of the Fellow Craft.

In this degree, the two points of the compass (one higher than the other), symbolize the heart and mind, and with the expression of the higher emotions the heart point of the compass is liberated from the square, which is an instrument used to measure the block of matter and therefore symbolizes form.

A large percentage of the people of the world at the present time are passing through, spiritually, the degree of the Fellow Craft, with its five senses. The sense perceptions come under the control of the emotional energies, therefore the development of the senses is necessary to the constructive expression of the Fellow Craft power. Man must realize that all the powers which his many years of need have earned for him have come in order that through them he may liberate more fully the prisoner within his own being. As the Fellow Craft degree is the middle of the three, the spiritual duty of each member is to reach the point of poise or balance, which is always secured between extremes. The mastery of expression is also to be found in this degree. The keywords of the Fellow Craft may be briefly defined as compassion, poise, and transmutation."

And it's meaning is explained well, here, by zetetic0void:
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90318

(06-23-2012 07:55 PM)Anarchist Wrote:  A pattern seems to be occurring, in which high level Freemasons glorify “Lucifer, the Light-Bearer”. Bringing us to Arthur Edward Waite, 33° Mason as well, who requests:

"First Conjuration Addressed to Emperor Lucifer. Emperor Lucifer, Master and Prince of Rebellious Spirits, I adjure thee to leave thine abode, in what-ever quarter of the world it may be situated and come hither to communicate with me. I command and I conjure thee in the Name of the Mighty Living God, Father, Son and Holy Ghost, to appear without noise and without ...."

-The Book of Black Magic and of Pacts, page 244.

Again, this is cherry-picked out-of-context from a book on medieval grimoires. This passage is reprinted by Waite from the "Grand Grimoire". He does not prescribe, recommend or condone the pact, as the cherry-picked quote implies. He is reprinting the pact for historical and scholarly purposes, when viewed in context:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/grim/bcm/bcm63.htm

(06-23-2012 07:55 PM)Anarchist Wrote:  Eliphas Levi, whom Alester Crowley said he was the reincarnation thereof, was a high level Mason. Eliphas actually drew the Sabbatic Goat that came later to be associated with the word “Baphomet”. Some of his books were translated by Waite, mentioned above. An excerpt of The Mysteries of Magic is as follows:

"What is more absurd and more impious than to attribute the name of Lucifer to the devil, that is, to personified evil. The intellectual Lucifer is the spirit of intelligence and love; it is the paraclete, it is the Holy Spirit, while the physical Lucifer is the great agent of universal magnetism."

-The Mysteries of Magic, page 428.

Crowley often made wild claims about himself to bolster his image and provenance. He often admitted that his "past lives" weren't real, per se, rather each of those he claimed to have once been were large influences upon him.

Eliphas Lévi invented the "Baphomet" image in 1854, published in his book Dogme et Rituel de la Haute Magie. Let's see what Levi had to say about the image:

"The goat on the frontispiece carries the sign of the pentagram on the forehead, with one point at the top, a symbol of light, his two hands forming the sign of occultism, the one pointing up to the white moon of Chesed, the other pointing down to the black one of Geburah. This sign expresses the perfect harmony of mercy with justice. His one arm is female, the other male like the ones of the androgyne of Khunrath, the attributes of which we had to unite with those of our goat because he is one and the same symbol. The flame of intelligence shining between his horns is the magic light of the universal balance, the image of the soul elevated above matter, as the flame, whilst being tied to matter, shines above it. The beast's head expresses the horror of the sinner, whose materially acting, solely responsible part has to bear the punishment exclusively; because the soul is insensitive according to its nature and can only suffer when it materializes. The rod standing instead of genitals symbolizes eternal life, the body covered with scales the water, the semi-circle above it the atmosphere, the feathers following above the volatile. Humanity is represented by the two breasts and the androgyne arms of this sphinx of the occult sciences."

Not "Satan", "Lucifer" or whatever.

As for the quote from "Mysteries of Magic", there isn't even a page 428 in Waite's translation. It goes up to page 341 + notes, ads & index.
I don't know where this quote is from, but it is not from the book you copy & pasted, sorry, mentioned! (proof)
Nor in any of his other books.

Besides, there are many different meanings to "Lucifer", not necessarily your false misattribution of the character being one and the same as "Satan".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer
The bible's only mention, Isaiah 14:12, is a mistranslation, by the way. But the mistaken word is identical to the Greek word phosphorus, which is used in Revelation to describe "Jesus". What about that?

(06-23-2012 07:55 PM)Anarchist Wrote:  The quotes referenced above are few, but by no means limited. There is an abundant wealth of information similar to what is above, and what I have taken out is, as it is said, “a drop in the ocean”. What is evident is that the top degrees of Masonry worship Lucifer, whom is Satan. This point is very important to emphasise. To signify that the people at the top of the Masonic pyramid, collectively known as the Illuminati, worship Satan, is to insinuate that the powers that be who rule this world do so under the hand of Satan himself. Whether real or not, the “Illuminated Ones” believe such a being is real, and worship him religiously. Religiously does not even begin to portray their dedication. They obsessively cling to all that is Satan, and exalt him as the Grand Architect of the Universe, subjecting everyone underneath their rule to every whim of their, and by an extension of them, Satan’s desires. Everything they do, from their ceremonies, to the dates they hold events (an example is Hitler committing “suicide” on May 1, the same day the Illuminati were officially founded by Adam Weishaupt), to even what they wear. They fanatically embrace the doctrine of Lucifer, and subject everyone they can to its powers. We see it everywhere. They KNOW Satan is real, and desire to force him on all of us. They do so through media, through politics, contemporary education, general propaganda, religion, and non-religious holidays. An example would be Mother’s Day, which is celebration of Semiramis, whom birthed Tammuz, reincarnation of Nimrod, the original sun god, which is Satan.
It is not just the high level Masons that get tricked, just look at this video:

I don't think you've proven masonry has anything to do with "Satan" or "Lucifer".

The Illuminati was not, nor ever was, "Luciferian" or "Satanic". They were champions of the Enlightenment. They were Rationalists, Free-Thinkers, Atheists, etc. They wished to abolish tyranical dynastic monarchies across Europe, and to diminish the power of the Jesuits and the Roman Catholic Church. They were never opposed to christianity itself, par se, except as rational thinkers. This is much later propaganda attributed to them.

Historical innaccuracy: Hitler died April 30th, NOT May 1st.

Your Mother's Day banter is clutching at straws.

And, in the video, don't you think that guy could just be fucking with the interviewers? Ha ha.

(06-23-2012 07:55 PM)Anarchist Wrote:  It is also not just Masons that get tricked, and that is the purpose for this compilation of data. It is you. They spew lies in all directions, in hopes that some will eventually consume some of them. This is one of their biggest lies, and many people directly praise Satan himself without knowing. It is the lies of the Tetragrammaton.

Freemasonry has no secrets. All the rituals and teachings are in the public sphere (have been for 200 years or more) and there is nothing particularly sinister about them.

(06-23-2012 07:55 PM)Anarchist Wrote:  Jahbulon:

Jahbulon is Jahovah, and is revealed to be the name Satan chose for himself. This name breaks down into three parts:

Jah – Jahovah.

Bul - Ba’al, particularly the god of Canaanites, Ba’al Zebub.

On – Osiris, god of the dead.

Interestingly, when one does a Google Image of Ba’al, the first image is the same as when you search for Jahbulon.

And, lastly, This is also wrong.

There are no credible instances of Bul meaning Ba'al. Bel, maybe. But then, why not shoehorn in a similar word?

On does not, and never has, meant Osiris. On is the Hebrew form of the Ancient Egyptian word for the city of Heliopolis.

Read:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jahbulon

Since this Jah-Bul-On bilge, popularized by Jordan Maxwell, has been repeated uncritically ad nauseum, you would expect Google searches to provide such results. The Ba'al pic is from Collin de Plancy's Dictionnaire Infernal, first published with illustrations in 1863.

Really, you're into a deadend cul-de-sac of christian propaganda trying to find "Satanism" or "Luciferianism" in freemasonry. There is no proof, and it is a wrong claim.



And, by the way, didn't you know that the Canaanites were one and the same as the Israelites? Check out the pioneering work of Israel Finkelstein, Bible Unearthed (which used to be on the tracker). Archaeology does not support the myth that there was a Hebrew slave race in Egypt. The Egyptians used skilled workers and artisans, not slaves. There was no Exodus. The latest research suggests the collapsed Canaanite empire developed into the Israelites, who then constructed a mythology around their new identity and inventing a fantastical origin story. Ba'al (originally a fertility god linked to agriculture) and other contemporaneous gods contributed to the formulation of Elohim (El, a Canaanite word) / Yahweh / Jehovah, and it was a slow transition. People clung to the old Canaanite gods. When orthodoxy reigned, there were condemnations and writings against these rival gods. There is nothing special about the god of the old testament, nor of the later new testament. It's just another man-made, invented god, unsupported by archaeology, based on false premises, and full of inconsistancies, contradictions and fabrications, all of it.

While I was doing research on the Leo Taxil hoax, that is interesting information I did not know. I will have to look into the quotes a bit more, I thank you for bringing that to my attention. As I said, criticism is good and I am glad that you pointed out such flaws on my part in a mannered way.

Alester Crowley did make some insane claims, you are correct. However, the book translated by Waite, Levi's book "The Mysteries of Magic", does have more than 500 pages. Check it out at Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Mysteries-Magi...s+of+magic

Quote:Paperback: 542 pages
Publisher: Adamant Media Corporation (December 15, 2000)
Language: English
ISBN-10: 1402197683
ISBN-13: 978-1402197680
Product Dimensions: 8 x 5.3 x 1.6 inches

On May 1 and Hitlers death, you are also correct. Technically, it was April 30, although the "elite" have been known to do things a day early, it still was April 30. That one was off the top of my head, but a lot did happen on May 1, just look at some of these links:
First off, Adam Weishaupt founded the Illuminati on this day...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illuminati
Osama Bin Laden, while Local time was 1 am, it was May 1 in the USA when they "killed" him (for the nth time...)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_bin_Laden#Death
And a few historical events...
http://www.thepeoplehistory.com/may1st.html
http://timelines.com/what-happened-on/5/1
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_1

Personally, I think Hitler's death was close enough for May 1, but technically, it was April 30, like you said.

On Mother's Day, it is not clutching at straws, but a whole story in itself. Essentially, every major holi-day has some form of Pagan origins. Semiramis is a popular figure in quite a few, but not all, of these holi-days.

On the topic of Jahbulon, my research (which I did not include much of here) says differently, but I will have to look into it more before getting back to you.

As far as this goes...

Quote:Freemasonry has no secrets. All the rituals and teachings are in the public sphere (have been for 200 years or more) and there is nothing particularly sinister about them.

...believe that if you want. Last I checked, there is a reason it is called "esoteric" knowledge, since "esoteric" means only a few know. You are throwing opinions out there. However, I will admit, they are not as secret and shady as some would lead one on to believe. One of these days I mean to get a tour of our local Masonic lodge, let's see how that goes...

El is a Canaanite word, but you have to know the language of Canaan, which was Phoenician Hebrew. As far as the exodus and slaves in Egypt, that is because the modern timeline is wrong, and there was a group expulsed from Egypt. They were called the Hyskos:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyksos#Theban_offensive
This History Channel documentary touches on this topic.

Lastly, I find it interesting that you call it Christian propaganda, as by most Christians I am called a heretic. Fine by me, because I am not a Christian. Christianity is a RELIGION (I hate religions), created by Constantine through the Council of Nicea where he created what is now Roman Catholicism, perhaps one of the most Pagan religions to exist. From this, came most the variations of Christianity we see today, which are full of Pagan beliefs and practises. Scripture is not a religious book, but a history book detailing the rise, fall, and eventual rise of a people, and their God.

Oh, and lastly, sorry for the delay in replying to you. I hope it did not seem as if I was ignoring you.

---

(07-04-2012 06:50 PM)CharliePrime Wrote:  

(06-24-2012 05:51 PM)Anarchist Wrote:  The purpose I intended was for the first part to include quotes from top Masons, to establish that they do indeed worship Lucifer

If this is your thesis, you need to consider what Tim said above.

Take apart everything he said and honestly evaluate each of his assertions.

I can't help you with that research because I'm new to the study of spiritual traditions. I was an atheist for the last thirty years, so I studied economics, politics, and public policy. What Tim said sounds correct to my new, limited understanding of these mystery school things.

Keep parsing this stuff out! It's the greatest adventure.

I will have to look deeper into the quotes, as I said to Tim. To me, it is evident they worship Satan based off their actions, such as child sacrifice to name one. I may have to get into detail about it later, right now I am just seeing how this post goes. If it goes well, I may have to make more detailing other history. One more thing... Did you watch the videos linked above, and if so, what did you think?

[h3rm35]

Quote:One of these days I mean to get a tour of our local Masonic lodge, let's see how that goes...

best way to pull this off, (in my experience,) would be volunteering for public services run by the Elks, Shriners, Boy Scouts, possibly even the Lion's club. Dress in your best nondescript business casual, work HARD, and bring up benevolent, patriotic, (brainwashed,) topics with just a twinge of apt insight and of spirituality to older white men. I've done this a couple times and been offered sponsorship. That's what it'll take - nothing short of preludes to initiation. Even my own family wouldn't open up about the topic without this precondition.

(just so it's understood, I never actually went through with initiation.)

[Anarchist]

Hmm, interesting. Please elaborate, as my idea was a bit concise... Knock on the lodge doors and ask for a tour, which would almost be shot down. Not like it is anything major, just some rinky-dink shack painted sky blue and white with the little G insignia near the door. The irony is there is an elementary school, which is right next to this lodge (like 30 feet away close), and adjacent to the lodge is our friendly local Jewish Synagogue... Am I the only one who sees the humour here? There is a tattoo shop here where they have an image of the eye in a triangle, and two olive branches surrounding the eye. I asked the owned about Masons, and he was extremely hateful and said "The Masons stole the eye from Egypt!!!". From my experience, in Arkansas where I grew up the Masons there were proud if you recognised them and would tell you their degree. They just would not tell you about the "secret" stuff. But man, was this guy hateful when I brought up the subject. Is that common around the Washington/Oregon area?

[h3rm35]

Bear in mind, When I say they "offered me sponsorship," I wasn't being completely accurate - they identified themselves as masons, and I asked them to sponsor me. They require you to ask them - they won't ask you.

Honestly, I'm not sure about the northwest - I haven't dealt with it here - my experiences were in NY and AZ, and they were in relatively small but well-off communities. You can usually figure out how much (at least) the local chamber of commerce is down with the Freemasons by looking for a blue sign when entering the town (smaller towns tend to be easier,) that gives the date and time for lodge meetings (usually something like "first Tuesday" or "third Thursday" of the month, and sometime after banker's hours.) It may only be on one entrance, but if it has one (or many,) chances are there are (or were recently,) masons in or influential to the city gvt or CoC. You might be able to get in the door of one of these lodges at the time listed on the sign, but I doubt you'll get a full tour... If you're really interested in getting a look around, maybe brush up on some NLP, since lower-level folks are often highly suggestible.

As far as charismatic supporters of Freemasonry, they'll relate the surface image that they're supposed to (and many actually believe it,) - They know the history of what happens when they're too reclusive and secretive. They also have to recruit from outside and that's easier when actual examples aren't what one would expect from their reputation as an organization. All in all, though, one has to remember that they're a membership-only church so they don't get to hit up new-comers by passing a collection plate, yet they love getting more tickets for the ride. They need to expand just like any company, so they are actively recruiting most times. If you go to the right places and act the right way (as long as you're a white male... or obviously rich), chances are you'll be approached sooner or later. It seems as though the Philly Temple's pretty interested in appearing transparent:

Quote:On-Line Guided Tour
Let our guide take you on a special tour of the building, including areas that aren't open to the public.
On-Line Self-Guided Tour
Choose what you want to see, when you want to see it. This includes detailed descriptions and additional photographs of this magnificent facility.
360 Degree Images
Quick access to the latest images available in the BEHERE series, where you control the direction you are looking with a click and drag of the mouse.

bear in mind, this temple also actively supports a low-cost/free "microchip your child" program! In general, they seem to be big into youth indoctrination:

Quote:The Pennsylvania Masonic Youth Foundation
Provides leadership to the Order of DeMolay, Order of Job's Daughters and Order of the Rainbow for Girls. We ensure a brighter tomorrow by investing in our youth, providing character-building opportunities and support from mentors and trusted friends. We offer educational programs, service projects and award several scholarships each year. Within the community, the foundation sponsors the Children Identification Program (CHIP), as well as hosts training for Drug Abuse Resistance Education (D.A.R.E.) officers on its campus.

THIS is pretty fucking creepy too:

Quote:All Pennsylvania Masons are eligible for membership in the Masonic Blood Club. A donation of one unit of blood provides coverage for the immediate family.

As for all their "secrets" being out there already - this has been confirmed for me by active members, but there's sooooo much BS disinfo out there that it's difficult to get a true, clear picture of their beliefs/activities w/o a guide.

I've had a unique look at the inner workings as I was raised in a fifth (at least) generation family and was forced to attend a sleep-away Masonic youth camp when I was around 12 years old. (I didn't get much of the esoteric stuff 'til they tried to recruit me as an adult, though.)

[h3rm35]

PS: some interesting reading into the satan/lucifer question can be found here, the gist being that, as usual, somewhere between 155 and ~700 AD, there were conflicting texts, and it all really depends on how you interpret scripture (not just the bible.)

[Anarchist]

(07-05-2012 10:02 PM)h3rm35 Wrote:  Bear in mind, When I say they "offered me sponsorship," I wasn't being completely accurate - they identified themselves as masons, and I asked them to sponsor me. They require you to ask them - they won't ask you.

Honestly, I'm not sure about the northwest - I haven't dealt with it here - my experiences were in NY and AZ, and they were in relatively small but well-off communities. You can usually figure out how much (at least) the local chamber of commerce is down with the Freemasons by looking for a blue sign when entering the town (smaller towns tend to be easier,) that gives the date and time for lodge meetings (usually something like "first Tuesday" or "third Thursday" of the month, and sometime after banker's hours.) It may only be on one entrance, but if it has one (or many,) chances are there are (or were recently,) masons in or influential to the city gvt or CoC. You might be able to get in the door of one of these lodges at the time listed on the sign, but I doubt you'll get a full tour... If you're really interested in getting a look around, maybe brush up on some NLP, since lower-level folks are often highly suggestible.

As far as charismatic supporters of Freemasonry, they'll relate the surface image that they're supposed to (and many actually believe it,) - They know the history of what happens when they're too reclusive and secretive. They also have to recruit from outside and that's easier when actual examples aren't what one would expect from their reputation as an organization. All in all, though, one has to remember that they're a membership-only church so they don't get to hit up new-comers by passing a collection plate, yet they love getting more tickets for the ride. They need to expand just like any company, so they are actively recruiting most times. If you go to the right places and act the right way (as long as you're a white male... or obviously rich), chances are you'll be approached sooner or later. It seems as though the Philly Temple's pretty interested in appearing transparent:

Quote:On-Line Guided Tour
Let our guide take you on a special tour of the building, including areas that aren't open to the public.
On-Line Self-Guided Tour
Choose what you want to see, when you want to see it. This includes detailed descriptions and additional photographs of this magnificent facility.
360 Degree Images
Quick access to the latest images available in the BEHERE series, where you control the direction you are looking with a click and drag of the mouse.

bear in mind, this temple also actively supports a low-cost/free "microchip your child" program! In general, they seem to be big into youth indoctrination:

Quote:The Pennsylvania Masonic Youth Foundation
Provides leadership to the Order of DeMolay, Order of Job's Daughters and Order of the Rainbow for Girls. We ensure a brighter tomorrow by investing in our youth, providing character-building opportunities and support from mentors and trusted friends. We offer educational programs, service projects and award several scholarships each year. Within the community, the foundation sponsors the Children Identification Program (CHIP), as well as hosts training for Drug Abuse Resistance Education (D.A.R.E.) officers on its campus.

THIS is pretty fucking creepy too:

Quote:All Pennsylvania Masons are eligible for membership in the Masonic Blood Club. A donation of one unit of blood provides coverage for the immediate family.

As for all their "secrets" being out there already - this has been confirmed for me by active members, but there's sooooo much BS disinfo out there that it's difficult to get a true, clear picture of their beliefs/activities w/o a guide.

I've had a unique look at the inner workings as I was raised in a fifth (at least) generation family and was forced to attend a sleep-away Masonic youth camp when I was around 12 years old. (I didn't get much of the esoteric stuff 'til they tried to recruit me as an adult, though.)

Yeah, they have a sign right by their door listing the meeting times, and it is Tuesday... What is up with Tuesday? Oh, and what is NLP? I am at a loss. As for the rest, that is some creepy stuff. I really enjoyed the links, thanks! Being white as paper (sadly, it is so easy to burn), I do not think I will have a problem fitting the requirements. I guess I just have to track one down and see if they can give me a tour.

[h3rm35]

(07-05-2012 11:36 PM)Anarchist Wrote:  Yeah, they have a sign right by their door listing the meeting times, and it is Tuesday... What is up with Tuesday? Oh, and what is NLP? I am at a loss. As for the rest, that is some creepy stuff. I really enjoyed the links, thanks! Being white as paper (sadly, it is so easy to burn), I do not think I will have a problem fitting the requirements. I guess I just have to track one down and see if they can give me a tour.

NLP = Neuro Linguistic Programming - be aware though, many higher-level masons have a pretty good grasp on it, and it may either help or hinder your progress if they recognize you using it.

Neuro-Linguistic Programming
http://concen.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=33825

The Morality of NLP: A Double Edged Sword to be Used or Outright Theft of Free Will?
http://concen.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=32162

[CharliePrime]

(07-05-2012 11:36 PM)Anarchist Wrote:  ...what is NLP?

NLP is "Neruo Linguistic Programming".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuro-lingu...rogramming

Could be bullcrap. Could be highly effective evil. Opinions vary. My close friend who is a university psychology professor says "It's bullcrap, but it's not.", whatever that means. I haven't bought him enough beer yet to find out exactly. :-)

I have several books on my Sony Ereader which claim to teach you how to "Win Friends. Influence People. and Succeed in Business" by employing NLP techniques. I haven't read them yet.

Here are a couple: http://thepiratebay.se/search/Neuro-ling...ing/0/99/0

[Anarchist]

Tim:
http://troyspace2.wordpress.com/2008/06/...onfession/

As for the text of the Leo Taxil confession, it can be found here:
http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/texts/taxil_confessed.html

[Anarchist]

And another one for you, Tim. While Hitler did not kill himself on May 1, but April 30, this is still an Illuminati/Satanic date. Ever hear of Walpurgis Night? Turns out, witches love this holi-day, and tend to celebrate it. Walpurgis is considered to be both April 30 and May 1, so Hitler "killing himself" (if it really happened) was, essentially, on May 1, since it was for Walpurgis.

[iwilliam]

I'm only qualified to speak authoritatively on certain points in this debate. However, one of those is the fact that "El" is most assuredly a "name of god," in both the Jewish language / religion as well as in western (hermetic) occultism.

[Anarchist]

El, essentially, means power.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_%28god%29

Quote:Hebrew Bible

The Hebrew form (אל) appears in Latin letters in Standard Hebrew transcription as El and in Tiberian Hebrew transcription as ʾĒl.

El is a generic word for god that could be used for any god including Baal, Moloch,[18] or Yahweh.

They would, sometimes, refer to Him by many names and titles, such as:

El Shaddai
Elohim (or Eloah, to denote singular.)
Baali (which was changed to Ishi after Baali was synonymous with the Canaanite diety)

There are more, these are just the few I remember off the top of my head. El, then, can be either a term for god(s), or a name for the Most High, which is another title. So, in Exodus, He clearly said:

Quote:13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?

14 And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you.

15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, the Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.