What kind of tracker should ConCen be?

[yeti]

All you tracker users here on ConCen are probably aware of the fact that while the torrent selection is great, the software serving it is, to be polite, flaky.

Although this is a fast server, the announce URL we've been using (http://concen.org/announce) is very slow and prone to trashing database tables. It hogs most of the traffic on port 80 which means at times the web site will be slow too. This will not do.

All the best alternatives are written with speed in mind. This means they record very little information - only torrent hashes (a unique ID of the torrent) and peer data (torrent, IP, port). All this info is kept in memory only - no logging at all.

I have set up opentracker on port 6969 which supports both http and udp.

The announces for the ConCen opentracker are:
http://concen.org:6969/announce
udp://concen.org:6969/announce

If you create a .torrent file using those announces and upload it to the tracker, it will be an EXTERNAL torrent, available to ConCen users and the public. Basically anyone who has that torrent file will be able to join the swarm. Anybody with just the info_hash of that torrent will be able to join the swarm using magnet links.

If you create a .torrent file using only the announce http://concen.org/announce, then the torrent will be private, unavailable to the public (if you have disabled DHT and PEX in your torrent client).

This means you now have 4 choices when creating a torrent file for upload to ConCen:

1. Create a ConCen members only torrent by using only:
   http://concen.org/announce
2. Create a public torrent tracked by ConCen only, using only:
   http://concen.org:6969/announce
   udp://concen.org:6969/announce
3. Create a public torrent tracked by ConCen and others, example:
   http://concen.org:6969/announce
   udp://concen.org:6969/announce
   udp://tracker.openbittorrent.com:80
   http://tracker.torrentbay.to:6969/announce
   http://tracker.novalayer.org:6969/announce
4. Create a public torrent tracked by others only, example:
   udp://tracker.openbittorrent.com:80
   http://tracker.torrentbay.to:6969/announce
   http://tracker.novalayer.org:6969/announce
   

Since TT has to be retired, I need to decide whether or not to replace it with something else. If we decide to get rid of private only torrents, then I don't need to replace it. If we decide to stay with the private torrents option, I need to find or build a tracker that tracks users. Since we don't have ratio enforcement anyway, why bother?

So here we are at a turning point...

If you care about the tracker's future, you should take the poll. Comments welcome...

[FastTadpole]

If the server can handle it a Private/Public Tracker would be ideal for maximum distribution of original and freely distributed material over the torrent protocol.

[SiLVa]

Im not sure of all the technical aspects of what your trying to get across here but just thought I'd throw it out there...

I was a member on another website that didnt have a bit torrent tracker but there was a section that members could access to download files that others had uploaded onto the website using direct download links and such. The catch was that no one had access to those pages of the site unless they were members registered to the site and had at least 10-15 posts- so not sure if that is something worth doing, maybe a variation of it or not but just an idea.

Sorry if that was a waste of input, but Im no good when it comes to technical aspects of computer problem solving. - my 2 pennies.

[icosaface]

What FastTadpole said!

[Hans Olo]

I'm not sure yet.. let's discuss

[yeti]

Whew, I finally fixed the lack of updating of external torrents. What a bitch that was. Took me like 3.5 hours of head scratching, chest pounding, and beating up random strangers. Only 5 minutes of actual coding though.

Funny how things work...

[zapoper]

I don't see any advantages to having a private tracker. My vote is public only.

[yeti]

(12-19-2011 06:28 PM)SiLVa Wrote:  I was a member on another website that didnt have a bit torrent tracker but there was a section that members could access to download files that others had uploaded onto the website using direct download links and such. The catch was that no one had access to those pages of the site unless they were members registered to the site and had at least 10-15 posts- so not sure if that is something worth doing, maybe a variation of it or not

Was it a big site?

[yeti]

(12-19-2011 10:39 PM)zapoper Wrote:  I don't see any advantages to having a private tracker. My vote is public only.

I tend to agree. I'm sick of the whole ratio tracking thing. The VAST majority of accounts on the tracker are just people who download once and bugger off anyway. What's the point in tracking that? It's just depressing...

[FastTadpole]

Scrap private but registration would required for uploader status and maybe a few extras.

[Genteel]

Realize that if we go public in any capacity, we most likely will have much more material removed based on copyright infringement. Not like I'm trying to publish material that should not be here, but it will be much more publicized, and open to the public.

I think you generate more interest in our "community" if it was privately based, and not public. Though, it may get our message out mo-better...? I'm kind of at a crossroad and don't know which direction to go. Not sure how I'll vote.

[FastTadpole]

Quote:Not sure how I'll vote.

The last time I was in the admin settings I changed up the poll voting permissions so now members can undo their vote, aka flip flopping is enabled.

As for copyrights, some radio shows, books, documentaries and TV episodes may be subject to procuring permissions to distribute. That said there is a LOT of content out there that is under Creative Commons Licence, freely distributable, internet radio, derivative works and/or public domain. CBC, BBC, PBS content is a bit of a grey area - at least in my mind since it's publicly funded - so we paid for it anyways. ConCen Originals are always awesome.

Sharing and stealing can always be debated pending context.

Blacklisting is a creeping issue I'm finding with Google, Facebook and Twitter much less the DNS, ISP or IP level blocks that are being bandied about.

Lots more on that here:

Investigation into the extent of infringing content on BitTorrent networks
http://concen.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=43878

Mininova, Torrent-finder, Bite the Dust. ISOhunt, Demonoid and TPB under Fire by ICE
http://concen.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=30496

I like the direction that hexagon.cc has gone and integrating a wiki* or slashdot style feed on top of it would make for a phenomenal resource.

*If you want to be a beta tester for this shiny new wiki, just send a PM to yeti with the password you want to use.

The Private vs Public tracker debate is basically one of speed vs visibility. Since we're a non-ratio tracker and we're not uploading the latest DVD Screeners of Hollywood flicks so bottlenecks are not so ridiculous and could be addressed with any members willing to share a seedbox and we are blessed with a few members who do so already for select torrents.

A private tracker does have advantages in banning announce request packet flooders, something that can be confronted various ways with a public tracker with some extra effort.

With a public tracker we would also have less dead torrents with higher distributions to external trackers combined with a public announce URL. Ratio stats would not be tallied with external trackers.

Unfortunately, if I am reading ACTA correctly, and if it is ratified, it may put a speedbump on the distribution of certain content. That may be less of an issue if we were a private tracker but I've seen a few private trackers bite the dust - for whatever reason. That said public trackers are lower hanging fruit since they are more visible.

[Dunamis]

It's a difficult one, and I am going to leave voting for a while to read some more comments. I have always appreciated the private tracker status as it's clearly a factor in what makes Concen, well, Concen, if you catch my drift.

I also know that a public tracker will publicise the place more, but not always to the "right" people, being those that aren't actually people, but fictional persons acting as such (aka Corporations). It would be a pity to see, as Genteel has suggested, material have to be taken down due to such things.

But at the same time the information is good to get out there, and it's would be good to let those that have the same interests, such as information sharing and "alternative" research, in mind.

I would ask if we could possibly encourage an influx of new members, as well as continue to get out torrents to those who want it, without using a public tracker.

Ft's suggestion of Private and Public, offering uploaders the choice has it's merits, but could still leave us with the issues mentioned. And again, I understand the frustrations about the slowing of the server, as well as that it would take time to sort such a new platform out.

Does anyone know what tracker software http://thebox.biz uses? Just out of curiosity, as I know there area few trackers our there that are fully private and offer forums etc, and I'm sure they wouldn't be using TorrentTrader.

Also, for many of us, such as myself, we don't have the option of a high speed connection, and I already have troubles uploading content due to so many leech only peers in the initial-seeding stage, at times I have had to upload almost 200% of large files before they are initially seeded. A public system will ensure that issue only gets worse.

[Genteel]

Like I said if it is a private tracker, then it makes it more appealing to actually get in. I'd wonder, what do they have going on? I gotta get in to see that place.

Why do you want people here that are not passionate about this material? Okay, distribution is king, but also a little intelligence is what is needed now more than ever. The people that just make more noise than make a difference disturbs me. That means we are willing to go as far as we can go in the system they have created, not far enough to change the existing system.

I'm holding off voting, but leaning more towards private.

[Dunamis]

@Yeti, if we were to allow public trackers to be added, in addition to the private tracker (option 3 you presented), could we have it so that our tracker, when put in with no passkey, displays something like "Visit Concen.org - The Worlds Treasure Chest of Alternative News and Media" like in Aprils ace pic:



I suppose that way it could create traffic coming here from genuine "seekers" increase.