Post Reply 
 
Thread Rating:
  • 1 Votes - 5 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Bill Still: "No More National Debt"
12-21-2010, 10:57 PM
Post: #1
Rainbow Bill Still: "No More National Debt"
Bill Still: "No More National Debt"

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1259...ional-debt
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
01-05-2011, 01:34 AM
Post: #2
RE: Bill Still: "No More National Debt"
MEET BILL STILL, FIAT-MONEY ADVOCATE

An analysis of the documentaries Money Masters and Capital Crimes
by G. Edward Griffin

http://www.freedomforceinternational.org...=meetstill
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
01-05-2011, 03:03 AM
Post: #3
RE: Bill Still: "No More National Debt"
Bill Still refutes G. Edward Griffin on Economics:
http://truthseeker2473.blogspot.com/2010...in-on.html

Worth placing to see both sides.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
02-02-2011, 02:16 AM (This post was last modified: 02-03-2011 07:01 PM by burtlancast.)
Post: #4
RE: Bill Still: "No More National Debt"
(01-05-2011 03:03 AM)aura Wrote:  Bill Still refutes G. Edward Griffin on Economics:
http://truthseeker2473.blogspot.com/2010...in-on.html

Worth placing to see both sides.

Thank you.

Most interesting, i should say....

I will just quote some passages, like this one:

Quote:Griffin:Lincoln’s issuance of fiat money, called Greenbacks in violation of the Constitution, once again was presented as an act of statesmanship.

Still:I wonder what part of the Constitution Mr. Griffin is referring to here? Article 1, section 8 clearly says that Congress alone should
create the money
and "regulate the Value thereof….”
Wouldn't regulating the value thereof mean the Congress should be in control of the quantity?

Now, there's an outright lie right here from our Bill the shill, if i ever saw one:
Here's the correct text from the section 8:
Quote:Congress shall have the power to coin money and regulate the value thereof.

Anyone who read Griffin's book knows he went to great lenghts in explaining the difference between COINING money and CREATING it.
Coining means regulating the amount of metals in the coin; it does not mean at all creating money .
The constitution reserves the right to create money to the states and forbids it to the governament.
Section 10 also stipulates states CAN NOT make anything other than gold and silver LEGAL tender (meaning people [the free market] can use whatever they want as currency BUT, legally, gold and silver are the official currency).

Still knows it too, but he would rather have you not knowing it as well.

Another gem:

Quote:Griffin:This brings us to the crux of the matter. Still claims that, because the bankers have operated a gigantic monetary scam for hundreds of years, it is time to break their grip over our lives and establish a fair and honest monetary system We could not agree more on that point. But then, in the tradition of Greider and Stinnett, he attempts to lead us to a non-solution. He claims that we should take this power from the bankers and give it to the politicians, because they are chosen by the people and, therefore, can be trusted.

Still:Well, unfortunately, they cannot be trusted in today’s world because the banking monopoly has controlled the quantity of money for nearly 150 years now. However, history has shown that freely-elected governments have always been humanity’s only successful method of freeing itself from serfdom --- the serfdom of the big banker’s gold-only money system. Today, we have nearly lost our precious freely-elected Republic. We have in its place, for all practical purposes, a plutocracy --- rule by the rich. Ed’s gold money system with only serve to enhance the powers of plutocracy and diminish the capability of the average American to have an influence over their government.

I would like to believe i'm dreaming, but that's saddly not the case..

The way to get trusted politicians serving de facto the interests of the people is to have free elections, so says Bill.

Mao and Staline were freely elected , weren't they ?

Honest , principled American politicians would have no difficulty being financed in their campaigns by the very same people they are denouncing, right ?

Bill basically suggests whoever the pupett masters installed as political candidates deserve our trust once democratically and freely voted into office.

I have seen naive people before , but this is possibly the mother of them all , not even worth my time commenting any further.

The rest of the article is exactly in the same vein.
Bill "the shill" Still is reduced at falsifying words from the constitution or playing dumb with us.

He fails to debunk one single word from Griffin's work and his "reply" would not stand in front of any reasonably intelligent contradictor.

I really would like for someone to upload his book so we can further debunk him.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
04-28-2011, 07:51 PM (This post was last modified: 04-28-2011 08:05 PM by yeti.)
Post: #5
RE: Bill Still: "No More National Debt"
(02-02-2011 02:16 AM)burtlancast Wrote:  Mao and Staline were freely elected , weren't they ?

Do you really need an answer to that question?

(02-02-2011 02:16 AM)burtlancast Wrote:  Honest , principled American politicians would have no difficulty being financed in their campaigns by the very same people they are denouncing, right ?

Wrong.

(02-02-2011 02:16 AM)burtlancast Wrote:  Bill basically suggests whoever the pupett masters installed as political candidates deserve our trust once democratically and freely voted into office.

I see no evidence that Bill believes that puppet masters deserve the trust of the people. You're just putting words in his mouth.

(02-02-2011 02:16 AM)burtlancast Wrote:  I have seen naive people before , but this is possibly the mother of them all , not even worth my time commenting any further.

You are setting up a straw man and knocking it down. You'd be doing yourself a favour if you took your advice.

[Image: randquote.png]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
04-28-2011, 10:31 PM (This post was last modified: 04-28-2011 10:46 PM by burtlancast.)
Post: #6
RE: Bill Still: "No More National Debt"
(04-28-2011 07:51 PM)yeti Wrote:  
(02-02-2011 02:16 AM)burtlancast Wrote:  I have seen naive people before , but this is possibly the mother of them all , not even worth my time commenting any further.

You are setting up a straw man and knocking it down. You'd be doing yourself a favour if you took your advice.

I don't take my advice from shills falsifying words from the constitution and neither should anyone else ,for that matter.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
04-28-2011, 11:19 PM (This post was last modified: 04-28-2011 11:20 PM by yeti.)
Post: #7
RE: Bill Still: "No More National Debt"
(04-28-2011 10:31 PM)burtlancast Wrote:  I don't take my advice from shills falsifying words from the constitution and neither should anyone else ,for that matter.

You say he falsified words from the constitution. I don't agree. I believe he misspoke. Are you saying he believes the constitution says "create" when it really says "coin"? Are you saying he's deliberately trying to mislead people by misquoting the constitution? C'mon...

You say he is a shill. I don't agree. I happen to agree with him that an elected government free of corruption is a good thing. I also believe that it is possible, but unlikely without a massive effort by the people, followed by constant vigilance. I don't believe he thinks it's an easy accomplishment either.

I also share his belief that a gold standard plays right into the hands of the uber-rich.

[Image: randquote.png]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
04-29-2011, 12:18 AM (This post was last modified: 04-29-2011 12:29 AM by burtlancast.)
Post: #8
RE: Bill Still: "No More National Debt"
Quote:However, history has shown that freely-elected governments have always been humanity’s only successful method of freeing itself from serfdom

So, all elections since Andrew Jackson weren't free, right ?

Right ?

Quote:Are you saying he's deliberately trying to mislead people by misquoting the constitution? C'mon...
His whole argument is build on the fact whether the governament has the right or not to create money.
He damn well sure didn't misspoke.

Quote:I happen to agree with him that an elected government free of corruption is a good thing.
Griffin's whole book is a testament to the impossibility to get a corruption free governament. It never ends.
Ralph Epperson even demonstrated how the founding fathers, supposedly intended to guarantee freedom from governament, rigged the constitution right from the start while announcing the emergence of the new world order on the dollar bill.
How many proofs one needs ?

Quote:I don't believe he thinks it's an easy accomplishment either
Bill believes AL Qaida did 911. (He might be from the same place as Hardlie)The guy looks like a buffoon for claiming that, but i reckon he plays the game as he's been told.

Quote:I also share his belief that a gold standard plays right into the hands of the uber-rich
Anthony Sutton, Stanley Monteith, Edward Griffin, Ron Paul , Alan Stang, Alan Greenspan (before he joined the FEd and flipped his trousers) think otherwise.
Griffin made a powerful case the gold standard would be much preferable and he explained it in great detail.Not foul proof but certainly much more difficult to manipulate.

I don't see where he's wrong, unless, as FastTadpole mentioned, the elites found a way to manufacture somehow gold, which might or not be possible, and they are playing both sides as usual.

Griffin's book is brilliant but flawed as he doesn't give all references to his facts.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
04-29-2011, 07:27 AM
Post: #9
RE: Bill Still: "No More National Debt"
(04-29-2011 12:18 AM)burtlancast Wrote:  So, all elections since Andrew Jackson weren't free, right ?

I'm sure many were. I'm also sure many weren't. You can pretend life is black and white, but I'm not that naive.

(04-29-2011 12:18 AM)burtlancast Wrote:  Right ?

See my answer above.

(04-29-2011 12:18 AM)burtlancast Wrote:  
Quote:Are you saying he's deliberately trying to mislead people by misquoting the constitution? C'mon...
His whole argument is build on the fact whether the governament has the right or not to create money.
He damn well sure didn't misspoke.

You ducked that question like a true politician. I'm starting to wonder whether I'm wasting my time with you. You clearly accused Still of being a liar and deceiver because he used a different word when paraphrasing. This is an act of a dishonest person.

(04-29-2011 12:18 AM)burtlancast Wrote:  
Quote:I happen to agree with him that an elected government free of corruption is a good thing.
Griffin's whole book is a testament to the impossibility to get a corruption free governament. It never ends.

Which book is that? Certainly not one I read. Anyway, have you heard about what's going on in Iceland? Is it necessary for a government to be 100% free of corruption to function better than the one you have now?

Why give up before you even start? Who benefits from that? They do. Big brother loves people who think like you.

(04-29-2011 12:18 AM)burtlancast Wrote:  Ralph Epperson even demonstrated how the founding fathers, supposedly intended to guarantee freedom from governament, rigged the constitution right from the start while announcing the emergence of the new world order on the dollar bill.
How many proofs one needs ?

Could you show me a link to Epperson's extremely contentious claim? I'm sure a few people might want to dispute him. While you're at it, could you link to an image of this circa 1776 dollar bill with NWO announcements on it?

(04-29-2011 12:18 AM)burtlancast Wrote:  
Quote:I don't believe he thinks it's an easy accomplishment either
Bill believes AL Qaida did 911. (He might be from the same place as Hardlie)The guy looks like a buffoon for claiming that, but i reckon he plays the game as he's been told.

That's your proof that Bill thinks it's easy to form a corruption free government? This is another one of your straw men, but I'll be willing to see your proof that he believes that.

(04-29-2011 12:18 AM)burtlancast Wrote:  
Quote:I also share his belief that a gold standard plays right into the hands of the uber-rich
Anthony Sutton, Stanley Monteith, Edward Griffin, Ron Paul , Alan Stang, Alan Greenspan (before he joined the FEd and flipped his trousers) think otherwise.
Griffin made a powerful case the gold standard would be much preferable and he explained it in great detail.Not foul proof but certainly much more difficult to manipulate.

So how do these people get around the fact that whoever sets the standard can manipulate it for their own purposes? These creeps aren't even being truthful about how much gold they own. A gold standard without a strong oversight by the people is not a standard at all.

(04-29-2011 12:18 AM)burtlancast Wrote:  I don't see where he's wrong, unless, as FastTadpole mentioned, the elites found a way to manufacture somehow gold, which might or not be possible, and they are playing both sides as usual.

See above. The problem is not the amount of gold, it's who controls the standard.

[Image: randquote.png]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
04-29-2011, 08:40 PM (This post was last modified: 04-29-2011 11:10 PM by burtlancast.)
Post: #10
RE: Bill Still: "No More National Debt"
(04-29-2011 07:27 AM)yeti Wrote:  
(04-29-2011 12:18 AM)burtlancast Wrote:  
Quote:Are you saying he's deliberately trying to mislead people by misquoting the constitution? C'mon...
His whole argument is build on the fact whether the governament has the right or not to create money.
He damn well sure didn't misspoke.

You ducked that question like a true politician.

If calling someone a liar and a shill is playing politics, then yeah, a politician is who i am.

(04-29-2011 07:27 AM)yeti Wrote:  
(04-29-2011 12:18 AM)burtlancast Wrote:  
Quote:I happen to agree with him that an elected government free of corruption is a good thing.
Griffin's whole book is a testament to the impossibility to get a corruption free governament. It never ends.

Which book is that? Certainly not one I read.
Try to avoid selective reading, it will do wonders for you.

By the way, which facts did you get from Still's book ?
Oh yes, that book that disappeared completely.


(04-29-2011 07:27 AM)yeti Wrote:  Anyway, have you heard about what's going on in Iceland? Is it necessary for a government to be 100% free of corruption to function better than the one you have now?
How would you know the corruption level for a start ? Who would set what an acceptable level of corruption is ?

(04-29-2011 07:27 AM)yeti Wrote:  Why give up before you even start? Who benefits from that? They do.
I'm giving up because i don't trust politicians ans Bill does ? I see things the way they are and look for answers. Power corrupts.
You cited Iceland; how do you know for a fact the people who took over are honest ? You don't know.

Personnally, the only way i will trust the new political class is when heads will start to roll for the jail cells and properties/accounts confiscated.
Then we might be onto something.


(04-29-2011 07:27 AM)yeti Wrote:  Big brother loves people who think like you.
Stop assuming you know me.
You don't.

(04-29-2011 07:27 AM)yeti Wrote:  
(04-29-2011 12:18 AM)burtlancast Wrote:  Ralph Epperson even demonstrated how the founding fathers, supposedly intended to guarantee freedom from governament, rigged the constitution right from the start while announcing the emergence of the new world order on the dollar bill.
How many proofs one needs ?

Could you show me a link to Epperson's extremely contentious claim? I'm sure a few people might want to dispute him.

http://www.outlawjournalism.com/forum/vi...e14649b7a. Go to the "frank8" post.

(04-29-2011 07:27 AM)yeti Wrote:  
(04-29-2011 12:18 AM)burtlancast Wrote:  
Quote:I don't believe he thinks it's an easy accomplishment either
Bill believes AL Qaida did 911. (He might be from the same place as Hardlie)The guy looks like a buffoon for claiming that, but i reckon he plays the game as he's been told.

That's your proof that Bill thinks it's easy to form a corruption free government? This is another one of your straw men, but I'll be willing to see your proof that he believes that.

Someone claiming the 911 official story is correct while even it's own commissioners have denounced it should never be allowed to open it's mouth in public again , let alone speculating on politician's morality.

(04-29-2011 07:27 AM)yeti Wrote:  
(04-29-2011 12:18 AM)burtlancast Wrote:  
Quote:I also share his belief that a gold standard plays right into the hands of the uber-rich
Anthony Sutton, Stanley Monteith, Edward Griffin, Ron Paul , Alan Stang, Alan Greenspan (before he joined the FEd and flipped his trousers) think otherwise.
Griffin made a powerful case the gold standard would be much preferable and he explained it in great detail.Not foul proof but certainly much more difficult to manipulate.

So how do these people get around the fact that whoever sets the standard can manipulate it for their own purposes? These creeps aren't even being truthful about how much gold they own. A gold standard without a strong oversight by the people is not a standard at all.

You entirely missed the point made by Griffin in his book.
Gold cannot be inflated at will like fiat money; a gold currency market auto regulates itself; rich people might hoard it in it's coffers but that would only stimulate gold production. Besides,people can store gold too.
On a gold standard, Politicians can't steal their citizen's wealth through inflation or finance ruinous wars .
On a gold standard , politicians can't get funds if their electorate knows they lie .
On a gold standard, Bank managers can't receive golden parachutes on the backs of their customers after driving their institutions into the ground; they will be allowed to go bankrupt.

On a gold standard, politicians can't freely decide to sponsor a third world communist dictator without anyone having a damn say in it.

On and on and on and on and....

(04-29-2011 07:27 AM)yeti Wrote:  
(04-29-2011 12:18 AM)burtlancast Wrote:  I don't see where he's wrong, unless, as FastTadpole mentioned, the elites found a way to manufacture somehow gold, which might or not be possible, and they are playing both sides as usual.

See above. The problem is not the amount of gold, it's who controls the standard.

The problem, the real problem, is there will never be such a thing as an incorruptible man.
Unless one believes mainstream media, naturally.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
04-29-2011, 11:11 PM
Post: #11
RE: Bill Still: "No More National Debt"
(04-29-2011 08:40 PM)burtlancast Wrote:  
(04-29-2011 07:27 AM)yeti Wrote:  
(04-29-2011 12:18 AM)burtlancast Wrote:  
Quote:Are you saying he's deliberately trying to mislead people by misquoting the constitution? C'mon...
His whole argument is build on the fact whether the governament has the right or not to create money.
He damn well sure didn't misspoke.
You ducked that question like a true politician.
If calling someone a liar and a shill is playing politics, then yeah, a politician is who i am.

You know damn well that is not what I asked you. Obviously you're not willing or capable of defending your own rhetoric. Since you'd rather play word games and knock down your little straw men than have an honest conversation, there is no point in talking to you.

[Image: randquote.png]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
04-30-2011, 12:28 AM (This post was last modified: 05-01-2011 07:29 PM by burtlancast.)
Post: #12
RE: Bill Still: "No More National Debt"
I believe to have been perfectly clear.

Griffin's argument was Lincoln didn't have the right to create it's own money because the constitution never gave this power to Congress
Quote:Griffin:Lincoln’s issuance of fiat money, called Greenbacks in violation of the Constitution, once again was presented as an act of statesmanship.
and Bill in his response avoids totally the issue by attempting to build a strawman where he argues Griffin in his critique is challenging the right of Congress to regulate the quantity of money, which isn't at all what Griffin implied.
Quote:Bill: I wonder what part of the Constitution Mr. Griffin is referring to here? Article 1, section 8 clearly says that Congress alone should create the money and "regulate the Value thereof….”
Wouldn't regulating the value thereof mean the Congress should be in control of the quantity?

To make it's strawman more plausible, he's reduced at falsifying the word "COIN" with the word "CREATE" as to make it seem the Constitution did indeed give Congress the right to issue it's own currency.


Bill wants to make it appear as if the creation of money by Congress is perfectly honorable and legal and in line with the Constitution, because the solution he advocates proposes the creation of money by the governament.

He lied with malice; if you can't see that then that's too bad.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 


Possibly Related Threads...
Thread: Author Replies: Views: Last Post
Smile U.S. Government Stages Fake Coup To Wipe Out National Debt CharliePrime 0 309 09-26-2012 01:14 PM
Last Post: CharliePrime
Exclamation prosecutors sell their letterhead to debt collectors in over 300 jurisdictions h3rm35 0 300 09-16-2012 04:32 PM
Last Post: h3rm35
  Wall Street's Protection Racket of Covert Derivatives: JPMorgan Props Up U.S. Debt h3rm35 0 327 06-20-2012 05:00 PM
Last Post: h3rm35
  Global Debt Crisis dioskouri 0 267 02-25-2012 06:33 PM
Last Post: dioskouri
  Massive Downward Revisions Imminent: National Association of Realtors Miscounted Mill B4Time 0 214 12-16-2011 03:35 AM
Last Post: B4Time
Information The Jobs Bill: Pretending to Fund Social Security FastTadpole 0 274 09-30-2011 04:39 AM
Last Post: FastTadpole
Information Bill Gates: World Bank Tax on Financial Transactions, Tobacco, Shipping and Aviation FastTadpole 1 841 09-28-2011 09:58 PM
Last Post: Dunamis
  British families face £5,000 bill to bail out debt-stricken Euro nations TriWooOx 1 375 09-27-2011 07:03 PM
Last Post: Dunamis
  The Money Masters: Behind the Global Debt Crisis Solve et Coagula 0 253 09-24-2011 10:50 AM
Last Post: Solve et Coagula
  American Debt Crisis Online Documentary Weyland 0 281 09-14-2011 09:37 PM
Last Post: Weyland

Forum Jump:


User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)