100% Conclusive Proof of No-Planes & TV-Fakery on 9/11 in under 8 minutes

[Negentropic]

Quote:If there were no planes, then why isn't there any video showing explosions only, with no planes impacting?

Here's the channel 4 chopper live video of the 'impact' explosion in the 2nd building with no plane whatsoever visible and no reporter announcing any plane hitting anything, they just call it an explosion in the other building:

where is the plane ?







Of course, the plane-huggers respond with 'the big bad aeroplane is BEHIND the friggin building, that's why you can't see it, or accuse the poster of editing the plane out of the video which is nonsense since then he would have had to edit out the reporter's commentary too which confirms no plane and only an explosion. Looks like they forgot the plane layer composite on this one.





Fake Planes 911 = No Planes 911






NO ✈ THEORY - 119 Reasons Why I'm A No-Planer - Dedicated to Disinfowarrior Jason Bermas

---

http://www.salem-news.com/articles/septe...ons-ew.php


Sep-12-2010 14:10

9/11 Reflections Part 2: Interview with Simon Shack of September Clues

Ersun Warncke Salem-News.com

Out of 2,970 9/11 victims listed, only 446 appear in the Social Security death index. Of those only 249 have a confirmed death certificate on file. Maybe Simon Shack is not as crazy as it would seem at first glance.

Watch Online: September Clues


(EUGENE, ORE.) - Simon Shack is emphatic: “nobody died on September eleventh.” I am talking to him in Rome, via Skype. He has recently asked me if I believe that the moon landing was real, laughing derisively.

To put this in context, Simon Shack is not talking in general about any given September 11. 300,000 people around the world die every single day. Simon Shack is referring, in particular, to the media event known as 9/11. The World Trade Center. All of that. These 3,000 people, who died on television in the United States, occupy a sanctified position not enjoyed by the other 99% of the people who died on September 11, 2001.

They are the casus belli for the longest and most disastrous wars in the history of the United States. Simon Shack is convinced that these 3,000 odd people never existed.

Simon Shack will tell you that nobody actually died on television. There is almost no evidence of any fatalities whatsoever. Only a few bone fragments and rumors that thousands of bodies were “vaporized.”

Simon Shack believes, sincerely and based on serious evidence, that nobody died in the events known as the “9/11 terrorist attacks.” He believes that the entire event was a hoax propagated by means of the modern mass media. The evidence that Simon Shack has compiled to support this theory rests in a documentary film series “September Clues” and at the website septemberclues.info.

The September Clues series is a compilation of evidence of lies, deceit, the use of green screens, computer generated imagery (CGI), and fake video and audio in the live network broadcasts from September 11, 2001, and in supposed amateur recordings of the events of that day.

The proofs of fakery that Simon presents include: Strong evidence of the use of a CGI plane in the “live” Fox broadcast.

The “live” Fox broadcast has been replaced, in the “official archive” on the internet, with a re-edited fake version compiled from the broadcasts from other stations.


Strong evidence that NBC replaced their “live” shot of the second airplane hitting the tower with a CGI version of the same shot, which was shown on the evening news on September 11.

Irrefutable evidence that the evening news shot on NBC of the plane hitting the tower was accompanied by a fake studio soundtrack.

Irrefutable evidence that the fake soundtrack from the NBC nightly news contained audio samples identical to the ones found in two supposedly amateur videos of planes hitting the World Trade Center Tower.

Irrefutable evidence that background scenery - such as birds, helicopters, and bridges – were inserted into “live” broadcasts using CGI, and could not possibly be real.

It is on the strength of this kind of evidence that Simon Shack makes, what appear to be, some very outlandish claims about what actually occurred in New York on September 11.

The logic is: if the live broadcasts were faked, and the amateur videos were faked, and there is conclusive evidence of the same fake material being used in both the live broadcasts and the amateur videos, then there must be a single source that produced most, if not all, of the faked media material that purports to depict planes flying into the World Trade Center towers in New York.



How this was all accomplished is unknown. What Simon Shack presents is simply evidence of the video fakery. He is an investigator looking at the remnants of a crime scene that has not only been manipulated and disturbed, but in his opinion, faked entirely.

Simon’s thinking goes like this: if the video from September 11 was faked, then the only plausible reason to fake it would be to conceal the fact that no commercial airliners hit the WTC towers.

This reasoning jibes with numerous strong proofs that the destruction of the WTC buildings resulted from the use of pre-planted explosives and a controlled demolition. It also fits well with strong proofs that a commercial airliner did not hit the Pentagon.

If you break down these theories, it makes no sense that commercial airliners would hit the WTC, but not the Pentagon. It makes no sense that you would have both a controlled demolition at the WTC complex and commercial airliners hitting the buildings.

If a person was going to take down the WTC with a controlled demolition, they would not use hijacked commercial airliners as part of this plot. This would be redundant, and it would introduce unacceptable levels of risk, because if the hijackings failed there would be no viable explanation for why the buildings had collapsed. Thus, either there were no airplanes, or there was no controlled demolition.

Once you see September Clues, the evidence of airplanes looks very weak. The evidence for controlled demolition has always been strong, but it has been counterbalanced by the video of planes hitting the buildings, which renders the idea of controlled demolition nonsensical.

Over the past decade a great deal of attention has been paid to the events of September 11, 2001.

In the first part of this series, The Elephant and the Mosquito, I showed how political leaders and the media used the events of September 11 as part of a concerted propaganda plan to promote the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, along with an increase in the militarization of Asia and the Middle-East generally. This propaganda was based on the myths of Al-Qaeda, Osama Bin Laden, the Taliban, and Iraqi weapons of mass destruction, which the media bought and sold willingly and with full knowledge of their falsehood.

The purpose of The Elephant and the Mosquito was to show how the simple magic trick of misdirection works on the massive stage provided by modern mass media.

Simon Shack’s work goes a step further by showing just how easy it is to broadcast fake video and audio and pretend that it is real, even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

The brave new world of “news,” where the same company (News Corp) that produces films that convincingly depict the White House and Empire State Building being blown to bits by alien death rays (Independence Day) also produces your nightly news cast, is truly one where the phrase caveat emptor applies.

Talking with Simon, we discussed the fact that television is fundamentally a technology designed to mass produce illusions. The perfection of this technology of illusion to the point that entirely simulated realities can be created raises serious questions for a society that depends on media to maintain social order.

These are not new questions, but they are raised under new circumstances. False pretenses for war have been manufactured by politicians and generals since the beginning of recorded history.

The “Golf of Tonkin incident,” one of the pretexts for the Vietnam War, is a good recent example. The entire “Cold War,” in retrospect, appears to be primarily an adventure in lies, deception, paranoia, and propaganda.

What is different now is that the media stage has changed, society has changed, and the sophistication of the population has changed. It is no longer good enough for the President to go on TV and denounce the enemy. People have learned to treat politicians like used car salesmen and ask for the proof.

If a politician or a general wants to start a war under false pretenses today, just as politicians and generals have done for millennia, then they have to work with the toolkit that is available to them. The assassination of an unwanted official, and the production of an agent from the enemy camp who willingly confesses to the crime, simply will not cut it anymore.

To manufacture a pretext for war in the modern era you need to connect with the entire population, which means that you must use television, and you must create a televised spectacle with suitable dramatic impact to galvanize the public for the costs of war.



In the first Iraq war, the one in 1993, both politicians and the media engaged in hoaxes and frauds to sell that war to the public. Foremost amongst these was the lie about Iraqi soldiers throwing Kuwaiti babies out of their incubators and onto the floor of a Kuwaiti hospital’s maternity ward[1].

This lie was told by the daughter of the Kuwaiti ambassador to the United States. A fact conveniently overlooked by the media.

It goes without question that the President, intelligence agencies, and any congress person who cared would have known exactly who this girl was, and that her claims were an absurd fantasy. The media certainly should have known, and if they did not, it would be another case of the willfully ignorant bliss that seems to be so common with them.

Throwing babies out of incubators is some absurdly evil stuff, but some of the absurdities spun around the events of September 11 are equally audacious. Simon Shack draws attention to the story of the “missing persons” fliers in New York as a prime example of absurd manufactured propaganda. The story is that thousands of people put up tens of thousands of fliers in New York to try and locate lost love ones.

Simon’s response to this is that “people put up fliers when they lose a dog.” His point is that in a civilized society people call the police when they are missing family members. He concludes that the fliers in New York must be a hoax, simply because they are so absurd.

Watch Wag the Dog. The part where they throw old shoes on telephone lines. It might ring a bell. I asked Simon how he got into producing September Clues, a video series that clearly took an enormous amount of work and time to compile. He described sensing an “aura” in people, regarding the topic of the September 11 events. He observed that people felt that something was not right, and that “many expected that it was a hoax, but didn’t know how it was done.”

As a person with experience in video editing and production, Simon noticed some obvious problems in the September 11 broadcast footage, and began to systematically break it down and review it. Simon released the first version of September Clues on the internet in 2007.

Contrarian viewpoints on September 11 have found fertile ground on the internet. Simon dismisses much of the “9/11 Truth” material, particularly Loose Change and Alex Jones, as “candy for the conspiracy theorists.”

What is true about most of the “9/11 Truth” material is that while it criticizes the story told in the mainstream media on specific points, it largely serves to maintain the key myths of the mainstream story. The role of the September 11 events in creating fear that can be channeled into aggressive military action is unchanged.

Conspiracy theorists, whether on Fox News talking about Osama Bin Laden, or on Alex Jones’ radio show talking about the new world order, are doing the exact same thing. They are selling people the illusion of imaginary enemies, in order to make them afraid, and make them malleable by means of their fear.

Conspiracy theorist used to be a dirty word in American political discourse. At this point, faith in political and corporate institutions has collapsed to the point that people only argue over the relevant merits of various “brands” or “flavors” of popular conspiracy theories.

There is the one conspiracy theory about a few dozen Arabs, commanded from a cave in Afghanistan, who hijacked four planes on September 11.

Somebody else points out that the leader of these Arabs is a former CIA asset and that his family are major business partners with the Bush family who own shares in many leading American defense companies. At this point, absurdity has already fallen by the wayside, and any intellectual discourse enters the twilight zone. Conspiracy theories are excellent propaganda tools for stifling legitimate debate.

The mass repetition of absurdity in public discourse drives away honest participants and creates a grossly obese body of lies that must be dug through before any truth can be extracted from the mess.

Conspiracy theories are hardly the province of lone gunman nuts these days. The “Global Warming Hoax” conspiracy theory has been funded and propagated by Exxon and other major oil companies for decades. Fox News has been more than happy to report on conspiracy theories about a “socialist,” “Marxist,” “fascist” takeover of America by “Obama.” The conspiracy theory about “death panels” as a part of Federal health care reform got plenty of traction.

When the producers of mass media abandon the idea that there is a true objective reality, that it is their duty to report on, then their product becomes worthless. At that point, you are reduced to selling lies, and your dubious accomplishments are measured only by the money you have made and the audacity of the lies you have sold.

In the industry of professional liars, actors, stage magicians, petty hustlers, and con artists the product is a lie, and the profit is in selling an illusion. Honor and dignity must be checked at the door. It is by no accident that the Romans ranked actors as the social equals of prostitutes. One sells their body, the other sells their soul. The two things are not so different.

Every news program is a theatrical production, staged, scripted, and delivered by professional actors. The actors who perform in these productions are no different than the actors who perform in a Hollywood movie. They are even employed by the same companies. Should it come as a surprise that they rely on the same special effects techniques to create their props?

If the companies, such as Cantor Fitzgerald and Morgan Stanley, that lost so many employees on September 11, should happen to be involved in massive financial frauds involving hundreds of billions of dollars, should that come as any surprise?

Is it any surprise that all of the stock market frauds, bubbles, and collapses have been happily cheered on by the entirety of the mass media? And if those media companies happen to be owned by the same banks and industrial conglomerates that profit from this activity, who should be surprised?

Is it any surprise that nobody in the media bothered to report on the lies about Bin Laden, the Taliban, and Iraqi weapons of mass destruction? Is it any surprise that they blithely repeat every manor of proven lie and falsehood about Iran?

The media is full of lies. That is easy to point out. But what is the truth? How could Simon Shack prove that people who never existed didn’t really die? You can’t prove a negative.

Simon Shack’s challenge is simple: “show me real proof that somebody died in the WTC towers on September 11.”

Simon boldly declares that “nobody died on September 11” because he wants to be challenged. He actually wants to get to truth. He is hoping to stimulate a reaction that will result in the revelation of new facts that will flesh out the details of a real history of our modern era that will stand in contrast to the fake history created by the Platonic mythmakers in politics and the media.

So far, Simon Shack’s call has gone unheeded. September Clues has been seen by a million people or more, but it languishes in obscurity by contrast to the “candy for conspiracy theorists” such as Loose Change, and Alex Jones. So, what about the official victims?

I did an exhaustive check of the list of victims provided on the CNN website. What I found is that out of 2,970 people listed, only 446 appear in the Social Security death index. Of those only 249 have a confirmed death certificate on file. Of those, not a single one has a valid “last address of record” on file. That is a lot of clerical error, or maybe Simon Shack is not as crazy as it would seem at first glance[2].

Part one in this special series:

Sep-10-2010" 9/11 Reflections Part 1: The Elephant and the Mosquito - Ersun Warncke Salem-News.com
[1] http://www.prwatch.org/books/tsigfy10.html
[2] http://www.scribd.com/doc/37270708/CNN-9...-Reference
________________________________________


Salem-News.com Business/Economy Reporter Ersun Warncke is a native Oregonian. He has a degree in Economics from Portland State University and studied Law at University of Oregon. At a young age, his career spans a wide variety of fields, from fast food, to union labor, to computer programming. He has published works concerning economics, business, government, and media on blogs for several years. He currently works as an independent software designer specializing in web based applications, open source software, and peer-to-peer (P2P) applications.

Ersun describes his writing as being "in the language of the boardroom from the perspective of the shop floor." He adds that "he has no education in journalism other than reading Hunter S. Thompson." But along with life comes the real experience that indeed creates quality writers. Right now, every detail that can help the general public get ahead in life financially, is of paramount importance.

[Negentropic]

That's right. Given no real videos & no plane parts, the 'planes' are NOT & cannot possibly be presented as the murder weapon of any dead people that can be confirmed dead at the WTC sites on 9/11 or as a result of exposure to micron dusts during the rescue & clean-up efforts.. The murder weapon or weapons are whatever was used to destroy & turn the buildings into dust, bombs & the DEW Directed Energy Weapons, most likely in combination used to dustify the buildings, including WTC 7 later in the day which most people call a standard 'classic' controlled demolition but which showed hardly a seismic footprint (Jesse Ventura just threw this directly back in Alex Jones's face by the way, check out the audio here http://www.checktheevidence.com/audio/91..._AJ1c3.mp3 ):


http://drjudywood.com/articles/DEW/StarWarsBeam2.html


Judy Wood & Jim Fetzer - Dynamic Duo - WTC Destruction - 29 Nov 2006.mp3 (8.1 MB)
http://www.checktheevidence.com/audio/91...202006.mp3

As did neither WTC1 or WTC2 show a seismic footprint even remotely consistent with 500,000 tons of concrete & steel hitting the ground. Rather their seismic footprints were consistent with somebody jackhammering into the ground which is plain ridiculous!



So you have no planes that can be physically proven on one side with ZERO empirical evidence except for 45 completely frame-by-frame analyzed fake videos & a Directed Energy Weapon or other high-tech weapon of some kind that no one has ever heard of but with PLENTY of empirical evidence (dustified buildings, seismic footprints, scorched cars, no computer parts or toilets found but paper everwhere, hurricane erin, http://www.drjudywood.com/articles/erin/ etc. etc.) on the other side. Any missiles that may have hit the building have not been proven through any evidence, there's only speculation. Since those names supposedly on the planes cannot even be confirmed dead, that's yet another reason to dismiss both the official conspiracy theory & the alternative conspiracy theory of Loose Shills and Alex Jones and Jeff Rense & Michael Rivero and the rest of them plane-hugging leaders of the 9/11 half-truth movement. The media and the people who had full access to those buildings are the main culprits of this co-ordinated, Orson-Welles-War-of-the-Worlds-like special effects extravaganza complete with hired actors and fake victims with GAG-ORDERS who refuse to talk to reporters.






"Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see."
— Arthur Schopenhauer


"It often happens that we blurt out things that may in some kind of way be harmful to us, but we are silent about things that may make us look ridiculous; because in this case effect follows very quickly on cause."
— Arthur Schopenhauer

"Every man takes the limits of his own field of vision for the limits of the world."
— Arthur Schopenhauer

"Thus, the task is not so much to see what no one yet has seen, but to think what nobody yet has thought about that which everybody sees."
— Arthur Schopenhauer

"All truth passes through three stages: First, it is ridiculed; Second, it is violently opposed; Third, it is accepted as self-evident."
— Arthur Schopenhauer

---

Quote: Cameron to investigate if 9/11 victims targeted


By ROBERT BARR - Associated Press | AP – 1 hr 30 mins ago -

(7/13/2011)

http://news.yahoo.com/cameron-investigat...54857.html

LONDON (AP) — British Prime Minister David Cameron vowed Wednesday to look into whether 9/11 victims were targeted in Britain's phone hacking scandal, as lawmakers were poised to demand that Rupert Murdoch give up his goal of taking over a lucrative U.K. broadcaster.

The fallout from a phone hacking and police bribery scandal at Murdoch's U.K. newspapers roiled unabated across Britain's political landscape Wednesday and grew near to striking its hardest blow yet at the media baron's global empire.

"There is a firestorm, if you like, that is engulfing parts of the media, parts of the police, and indeed our political system's ability to respond," Cameron said in the House of Commons. He said the focus must now be on the victims, and make sure that the guilty are prosecuted.

The Daily Mirror newspaper had claimed that some journalists had approached a private investigator in the U.S. to try to access the phone data of some of the victims of 9/11. Cameron told lawmakers Wednesday that he will look into the claims.

In an about-face, Cameron has put his party's weight behind an opposition Labour Party motion up for a vote Wednesday that declares that Murdoch's News Corp.'s bid for full control of British Sky Broadcasting would not be in the national interest.

The motion doesn't carry legal force, but with the three main parties in support, it looms as a powerful expression of the tide running against Murdoch's newspapers.

Murdoch's hope to gain control of the 61 percent of BSkyB shares that his News Corp. doesn't yet own has already been delayed for several months while the British government's Competition Commission reviews monopoly concerns.

The uproar also claimed another top executive his job. News International, Murdoch's British unit, said its legal manager, Tom Crone, has left the company, but spokeswoman Daisy Dunlop declined to say if Crone had resigned or been told to leave.

But a defiant mood was evident at one News International paper, The Sun tabloid, which slapped the headline "Brown Wrong" across its front page in response to claims by former Prime Minister Gordon Brown that the paper had obtained confidential medical records of his younger son.

Outrage has grown and Murdoch's News Corp.'s share price has fallen since a report last week that The News of the World hacked the phone of teenage murder victim Milly Dowler in 2002, followed by claims of intrusion into private records by The Sun and The Sunday Times.

Murdoch has already shut down the 168-year-old News of the World and has come to London to direct the company's efforts to get on top of its problems.

A report Wednesday in The Wall Street Journal, which is part of News Corp., said that Murdoch has met with advisers over recent weeks to discuss possible options including the sale of the remaining British newspapers — The Sun, The Times and The Sunday Times.

The Journal, citing unidentified people familiar with the situation, said there didn't appear to be any buyers given the poor economics of the newspaper division.

Brown accused Murdoch's papers, including The Sun and The Sunday Times, of obtaining his confidential bank accounts, tax records and even health information about his son, Fraser, who suffers from cystic fibrosis, using fraudulent, criminal means. But, the newspaper insisted it learned of the boy's ailment from the father of another child with the same condition, and that it contacted the Browns, who consented to the story.

"We are not aware of Mr. Brown, nor any of his colleagues to whom we spoke, making any complaint about it at the time," The Sun said.

Its coverage included picture of Brown and Murdoch standing together, both grinning.

Murdoch's News International responded to his accusations by asking Brown for any information that would help to investigate them.

London Mayor Boris Johnson said Wednesday that he had been informed that his telephone had been hacked, but he decided not to take legal action.

"Quite frankly, why on earth should I go through some court case in which it would have inevitably involved going over all the pathetic so-called revelations that the News of the World had dug up?" Johnson said.

"Why should I, when the police had made it clear to me when they had abundant evidence?" he added.

In Washington, Sen. Jay Rockefeller, a Democrat from West Virginia, urged an investigation into whether Murdoch's U.K. newspapers had violated U.S. law.

If there was any hacking of phones belonging to 9/11 victims or other Americans, "the consequences will be severe," said Rockefeller, chairman of the Senate Committee on Commerce, Science and Transportation.

The suggestion that 9/11 victims may have been were targeted surfaced Monday in the Mirror, a British competitor of The Sun. It quoted an anonymous source as saying an unidentified American investigator had rejected approaches from unidentified journalists who showed a particular interest in British victims.

Cameron promised that the claim would be investigated.

Police in the U.K. are pursuing two investigations of News International, one on phone hacking and the other on allegations that the News of the World bribed police officers for information.

Hugh Orde, president of the Association of Chief Police Officers, urged News International to come clean about any such payments.

"Let's not play around with legal games here: If they have names, dates, times, places, payments to officers, we would like to see them so that we can lock these officers up and throw away the key," Orde told the British Broadcasting radio.

Police officials have indicated the bribery investigations involve about half a dozen officers.

This is from the FRONT PAGE of today's Internet News Items on Yahoo. Looks like they're shitting their pants with diarrhea that people are even trying to access 9/11 'victims' families. So we have this orchestrated NWO WWF pathetic media charade between Murdoch & others to pass ever more restrictions on the free press. Murdoch is nobody's crusader and you can bet your ass he agreed to this public silly-assed Hegelian dialectic false paradigm charade so that the government 'do gooders' can both pretend to be fighting on the public's side against evil big business yellow journalists & cut down that same public's freedoms of press & expression and investigation with new draconian you-will-shut-the-fuck-up-&-not-talk-to-anyone-we-don't-want-you-to-talk Orwellian regulations.


I love this paragraph especially:

"In Washington, Sen. Jay Rockefeller, a Democrat from West Virginia, urged an investigation into whether Murdoch's U.K. newspapers had violated U.S. law."

Ha ha ha hee hee ho ho. When a Rockefeller is investigating a Murdoch for breaking sacred U.S. law then you know for damn fucking sure it's for REAL ! Thank god these Rockefellers are around to save our rights from these evil Murdochs and their yellow journalism!


9/11 victims were TARGETED? Nice choice of word there douchebags. I'm sure it was purely accidental. Targeted? As in put into the cross-hairs for a killing? Oh those poor, poor people they've been grieving so much for 10 straight years now that God Forbid someone should even ask them a few simple questions. Oh the HORROR THE HORROR !!!! Anyone that would even bother them wth so much as a phone call and a few questions is the lowest scum of the earth.



Why is it such a big crime or 'hacking' all of a sudden for newspapers or reporters to try to get somebody's phone number so they can interview them or investigate something? Can't just anyone claim their phone number was 'hacked' and not obtained through other means whenever someone feels like it since hacking someone's e-mail or Phone # is so easy to do? Since when did getting a phone number or address to investigate stories become a 'crime' in the western world?


Private investigators and journalists aren't allowed to get anybody's phone number but the government can hack into anybody's e-mail or phone at anytime and get their number, is that it? Those poor 9/11 vicsims, god forbid someone should ask them a few questions for a newspaper, what an unspeakable, horrific thing to do to these poor grieving souls. [/quote]



And check out some of the trolled or useful-idiot comments:
•
•

Quote: john 42 minutes ago
Hacking 9-11 victims is about as low as you can possibly go. What total shameless disregard for the victims, their families, and all Amercian citizens. Murdoch belongs with Madoff. Strip him of his assets and lock him up for good

What kind of idiot would consider investigating a case that has not been solved for 10 years, shameless disregard and anti-American? Strip Murdoch and lock him up for good for even daring to have some employees who hack into a phone number, something the government, the NSA and the ADL do all the time, yeah right!


•
•

Quote: applesbanana 21 minutes ago
Legitimate news organizations do not bribe the police and hack victims' phones ..


News Corp. should be ashamed of itself .. especially if they wanted to look into the personal lives of people murdered on 9/11 ..

And why are the people murdered on 9/11 so special even after 10 years? How come the victims of OJ Simpson's murder rampage were being interviewed left and right but no one is allowed to even so much as hack a phone # of one of these so-called victims or should we say VICSIMS?

They may not bribe people with payola but people have been doing favors for each other since time immemorial, it's part of the game and has always been. You can ban bribery but you can't ban barter of favors and information. Barter of favors and information is what investigating anything has always been about. Without that there is no free speech, free press or any kind of checks and balances on power through even a marginalized area of the press.

[rsol]

is it me or are you just talking to yourself?

[Bull Medicine]

(07-14-2011 03:16 PM)rsol Wrote:  is it me or are you just talking to yourself?

Yes, it's just you trolling. If you are not interested in the thread and have nothing to add then just ignore it.

[rsol]

funny i have plenty to say but it just gets ignored. i would point out that in a thread, its nice to have someone retort before continuing to babble away. Its almost like someone wants to keep this thread running when there is little or no interest in it.

[JazzRoc]

(12-02-2010 10:45 AM)Negentropic Wrote:  

(11-26-2010 06:43 PM)JFK Wrote:  Actually it was Louis Briendel, AKA Scaffoldrider who found those parts on the nearby roof. I have been in contact with him and there were serial numbers stamped into the parts he photographed as well as the ones he did not. Those numbers never made it into the public record. If they had a lot of this debate would be moot as I also have contacts which could cross reference those numbers and tell if those parts were actually installed on the planes in question.

I remember seeing those numbers at the time.

Quote:The PTB want this debate to go on, if they didn't they would simply release all the info.Too bad so many of you do not see this.

OR no-one has challenged them to reproduce them. Are those numbers not visible even now?

Quote: the Indestructible black boxes should have survived for sure, right?

Only if the TAIL of the plane exited the tower. The falling structure chopped similar bits of equipment within the building such that no equipment fragments longer than FOUR INCHES were found.

Quote:After they find the plane parts & match it to the planes WHICH THEY HAVEN'T DONE

They probably did, as quite definitely they wanted to find out too. But tell YOU about it - why should they? For you believe:

Quote:all you plane-huggers and Alex Jones / Dylan Avery followers still need to find ONE SINGLE AUTHENTIC VIDEO of a real plane crashing into to towers that is not doctored with fakery.

And that is simply untrue. ALL your "fakery" was caused by video compression algorithms. You KNOW this, for I'm sure you've seen glaring examples in compressed video elsewhere. If you haven't, then get your eyes tested.

Quote:Actually since you do not possess high quality authentic video of planes hitting towers & NO ONE ELSE DOES EITHER, and all the videos that have EVER BEEN SHOWN TO ANYONE ANYWHERE have proven fakery in them

Get your eyes tested.

Quote:your firmly formed conviction that 125 ton planes really do cut through 500,000 ton steel-&-concrete buildings like a knife through butter

You can cut steel with WATER. All that's necessary is a lot of ENERGY. In the case of the two aircraft, their motion energy alone was the equivalent of a ton and a half of TNT each. You haven't watched sufficient high-energy events (WW2)? You don't appear to be aware AT ALL of the physical world around you. Don't apply to be a marine....

Quote:ZERO DECELERATION ON IMPACT (proven in September Clues with frame-by-frame analysis)

That's simply a big fat porky. Sleight of hand and frame removal. I've seen a couple of analyses contradicting you.

Quote:and then leave no black boxes and no parts for anyone to ever find

You don't let up, do you? They never left anything. OBL did!

Quote:we'll have to conclude that your case is faulty and wanting and not the No-Planers'

My heart goes out to the "vicsims". Don't ever let yourself be cornered by their relatives.

Quote:how long is the 9/11 truth movement supposed to wait

For ever. Or at least until the day when you escape your paranoias and learn enough engineering to be able to read and understand the NIST report for the elegant masterwork it truly is.

Quote:"When men are most sure and arrogant they are commonly most mistaken, giving views to passion without that proper deliberation which alone can secure them from the grossest absurdities” - David Hume

One can always rely on "truthers" to manifest an ironical statement.

WOW! ROFL etc... ...thanks for THAT one! I know, YOU aren't arrogant. I mean, it isn't arrogant to assume you know better than the hundreds of engineers that worked for the NIST Report, is it? (Each of them having studied their subject for years, burning the midnight oil while you were tossing-off.)
That team used the very best computer simulation technology to reproduce in digital form a precise timescape of the towers' destruction. By impact and fire, of course.

QUESTION 1: If the towers were hit by "missiles", how did they get the "missiles" to hit the 24,000 gallons of kerosine they must have had stored (secretly) in each building? Why hadn't the survivors from those floors noticed this "prestorage" - especially the smell of kerosine?

QUESTION 2: Who was it that climbed into tower 2 to pour several tons of molten aluminum out of a window? Don't say THERMITE because NO MATERIAL exists, outside of a foundry, that could contain it. Oh, and by the way, the color temperature indicated 1000+ deg C - well above the softening temperature for structural steel. Tell me WHO.

QUESTION 3: There are probably THREE DOZEN privately-shot videos of the second impact. How come they are unerringly ACCURATE with respect to each other? That is in terms of the plane, the light, the timing, the explosion, the falling glass, the falling engines and u/c, the rising explosion, the wake vortices, and the rising smoke?

QUESTION 4: How come they've collected 95% of the Shanksville plane, and identified half the victims?

QUESTION 5: With respect to the hundreds of media people tailoring images and FBI operatives scattering body and plane parts, what sort of inducements did they offer that are still as good today as they were ten years ago?

QUESTION 6: Ever heard of Occam's Razor?

That's enough questions - ed.

[Bull Medicine]

(07-15-2011 02:59 PM)rsol Wrote:  funny i have plenty to say but it just gets ignored. i would point out that in a thread, its nice to have someone retort before continuing to babble away. Its almost like someone wants to keep this thread running when there is little or no interest in it.

A lot of people out there have little interest in many important topics but that does not mean that the discussion or monolgues/blogs about them should cease, quite the contrary, i would have thought. Beside who made you arbitor of generic internet messageboards rules? One thread to fit them all? Have there never been monolgue blog like threads here many times before on a site of this age? I would find that hard to believe. Did you always mock people in those because they were against your rules too?

If you have plenty to say then don't puff about it and allude, start, and consequently babble away in, your own thread/s and stop trolling someone else's with haranguing inanities. Simple.

---

(07-15-2011 04:13 PM)JazzRoc Wrote:  QUESTION 1: If the towers were hit by "missiles", how did they get the "missiles" to hit the 24,000 gallons of kerosine they must have had stored (secretly) in each building? Why hadn't the survivors from those floors noticed this "prestorage" - especially the smell of kerosine?

QUESTION 2: Who was it that climbed into tower 2 to pour several tons of molten aluminum out of a window? Don't say THERMITE because NO MATERIAL exists, outside of a foundry, that could contain it. Oh, and by the way, the color temperature indicated 1000+ deg C - well above the softening temperature for structural steel. Tell me WHO.

QUESTION 3: There are probably THREE DOZEN privately-shot videos of the second impact. How come they are unerringly ACCURATE with respect to each other? That is in terms of the plane, the light, the timing, the explosion, the falling glass, the falling engines and u/c, the rising explosion, the wake vortices, and the rising smoke?

QUESTION 4: How come they've collected 95% of the Shanksville plane, and identified half the victims?

QUESTION 5: With respect to the hundreds of media people tailoring images and FBI operatives scattering body and plane parts, what sort of inducements did they offer that are still as good today as they were ten years ago?

QUESTION 6: Ever heard of Occam's Razor?

That's enough questions - ed.

1.What happened at the Venice Flying Circus and why does the information alone found through such national media level investigative journalism not manage to inform your current perspective wholly aligning with the officially sanctioned narrative account in any shape or form?

2.What was the cause of a run on AA share value and apparent insider trading on the NYSA in the days leading up to the attacks?

3.Was Larry Silverstein in foreknowledge of the event considering his newly aqquired insurance plan on his newly aqquired asbestos stuffed towers or was it was a fluke that simply coicedentally shined consequently so brightly in his favour, financially? Did he "profiteer" with almost uncanny foresight from the drafted terms of his insurance contract in the aftermath, accruing ...a sizable profit or just sign a very lucky guess on his part a mere two weeks earlier? What would Occam's method suggest as the conclusion?

5. What happened to the issue of and the actual missing cash Donald Rumsfeld disclosed news of to the press immediately prior to "the attacks"? Was the timing for the anouncement about the never again mentioned/forgotten about missing $ simply jammy too? What would Occam's method probably conclude if applied?

6.What was the conversation between two Israeli sounding men heard by a Jewish American pensioner whilst visiting a Jewish cemetary in the outskirts of NYC 3 months before the attacks really about, if not a breifing being given about what was to soon planned to happen?

7.Were your Islamic fundamentalist fanatics aware of the massive NORAD exercises occurring that day or was it simply a barely calculable "lucky" fluke? What would Occam's method suggest? If they, for the sake of arguement, were informed: How and by whom?

8. Why when civil aviation was strictly grounded across the entire country were the the Bush oil family's Saudi oil family friends and partners ushered out of the USA with a military escort? What was the reason given that such a spontaneous exit was necessary and is it believable or does it even make the slightest sense to justify such odd and preferential treatment, to someone with a scrutinizing mind with properly working critcal faculties? Was the now proposed dead renegade son of the Saudi oil family, officially proposed as the financier mastermind behind "the attacks", set up as a ringer to help those who profited, profit in the ensuing invasion of the Iraqi oilfields and museums?

9. How did Mohammed Atta's passport survive from the plane considering the violence of the kerosine explosion as you describe it?.. and then after that, how did it clone itself? Who was Mohammed Atta and was he connected to the CIA in some way?

10. Why do eye witnesses at the Pentagon site, including Pentagon guards describe, all in inerringly matching accounts, as to witnessing a very large plane flying extremely low "at" the Pentagon at a trajectory/path differing entirely from the official sanctioned account of events, which when as reported, almost seemingly too late, veered away back to a higher altitude and away shortly before the actual impact..be it another plane or not?

That's enough questions for now too but one more nevertheless:

11. Does the sheer volume of factual data researched and collated in relation to significant and glaring anomalies to the official account who actually died in "the attacks", name by name, warrant dismissing with, pardon me, with an almost bullying emotive churlishness and overly simplified rhetorical appeals to distress and decency rather than being factually understood to at least the extent to make informed comment about the massive amount of errors, inconsistencies and non existents also "found" to be "real", as no doubt a great number of actual victims were?

Quote:"Thus, the task is not so much to see what no one yet has seen, but to think what nobody yet has thought about that which everybody sees."
— Arthur Schopenhauer

[icosaface]

Interesting comments Bull Medicine.

Not that it matters much but just to be precise, it was

"the passport of hijacker Satam Al Suqami was found a few blocks from the WTC. Satam Al Suqami was supposedly on Flight 11, the plane that hit the North Tower. In that collision, the building's core absorbed almost the entire airplane, which hit the northeast wall nearly dead center."

or so I have been led to believe anyway,

[JazzRoc]

(07-15-2011 10:58 PM)Bull Medicine Wrote:  1.What happened at the Venice Flying Circus and why does the information alone found through such national media level investigative journalism not manage to inform your current perspective wholly aligning with the officially sanctioned narrative account in any shape or form?
2.What was the cause of a run on AA share value and apparent insider trading on the NYSA in the days leading up to the attacks?
3.Was Larry Silverstein in foreknowledge of the event considering his newly aqquired insurance plan on his newly aqquired asbestos stuffed towers or was it was a fluke that simply coicedentally shined consequently so brightly in his favour, financially? Did he "profiteer" with almost uncanny foresight from the drafted terms of his insurance contract in the aftermath, accruing ...a sizable profit or just sign a very lucky guess on his part a mere two weeks earlier? What would Occam's method suggest as the conclusion?
5. What happened to the issue of and the actual missing cash Donald Rumsfeld disclosed news of to the press immediately prior to "the attacks"? Was the timing for the anouncement about the never again mentioned/forgotten about missing $ simply jammy too? What would Occam's method probably conclude if applied?
6.What was the conversation between two Israeli sounding men heard by a Jewish American pensioner whilst visiting a Jewish cemetary in the outskirts of NYC 3 months before the attacks really about, if not a breifing being given about what was to soon planned to happen?
7.Were your Islamic fundamentalist fanatics aware of the massive NORAD exercises occurring that day or was it simply a barely calculable "lucky" fluke? What would Occam's method suggest? If they, for the sake of arguement, were informed: How and by whom?
8. Why when civil aviation was strictly grounded across the entire country were the the Bush oil family's Saudi oil family friends and partners ushered out of the USA with a military escort? What was the reason given that such a spontaneous exit was necessary and is it believable or does it even make the slightest sense to justify such odd and preferential treatment, to someone with a scrutinizing mind with properly working critcal faculties? Was the now proposed dead renegade son of the Saudi oil family, officially proposed as the financier mastermind behind "the attacks", set up as a ringer to help those who profited, profit in the ensuing invasion of the Iraqi oilfields and museums?
9. How did Mohammed Atta's passport survive from the plane considering the violence of the kerosine explosion as you describe it?.. and then after that, how did it clone itself? Who was Mohammed Atta and was he connected to the CIA in some way?
10. Why do eye witnesses at the Pentagon site, including Pentagon guards describe, all in inerringly matching accounts, as to witnessing a very large plane flying extremely low "at" the Pentagon at a trajectory/path differing entirely from the official sanctioned account of events, which when as reported, almost seemingly too late, veered away back to a higher altitude and away shortly before the actual impact..be it another plane or not?
11. Does the sheer volume of factual data researched and collated in relation to significant and glaring anomalies to the official account who actually died in "the attacks", name by name, warrant dismissing with, pardon me, with an almost bullying emotive churlishness and overly simplified rhetorical appeals to distress and decency rather than being factually understood to at least the extent to make informed comment about the massive amount of errors, inconsistencies and non existents also "found" to be "real", as no doubt a great number of actual victims were?

All off-topic and almost unlinked to the topic (unless you'd care to elaborate further) which is 100% Conclusive Proof of No-Planes & TV-Fakery on 9/11 in under 8 minutes. I'll concede that two of my six questions were similarly disqualified, but the other four I CAN show strong links to the topic. Try again.

[Bull Medicine]

(07-16-2011 12:50 AM)JazzRoc Wrote:  

(07-15-2011 10:58 PM)Bull Medicine Wrote:  1.What happened at the Venice Flying Circus and why does the information alone found through such national media level investigative journalism not manage to inform your current perspective wholly aligning with the officially sanctioned narrative account in any shape or form?
2.What was the cause of a run on AA share value and apparent insider trading on the NYSA in the days leading up to the attacks?
3.Was Larry Silverstein in foreknowledge of the event considering his newly aqquired insurance plan on his newly aqquired asbestos stuffed towers or was it was a fluke that simply coicedentally shined consequently so brightly in his favour, financially? Did he "profiteer" with almost uncanny foresight from the drafted terms of his insurance contract in the aftermath, accruing ...a sizable profit or just sign a very lucky guess on his part a mere two weeks earlier? What would Occam's method suggest as the conclusion?
5. What happened to the issue of and the actual missing cash Donald Rumsfeld disclosed news of to the press immediately prior to "the attacks"? Was the timing for the anouncement about the never again mentioned/forgotten about missing $ simply jammy too? What would Occam's method probably conclude if applied?
6.What was the conversation between two Israeli sounding men heard by a Jewish American pensioner whilst visiting a Jewish cemetary in the outskirts of NYC 3 months before the attacks really about, if not a breifing being given about what was to soon planned to happen?
7.Were your Islamic fundamentalist fanatics aware of the massive NORAD exercises occurring that day or was it simply a barely calculable "lucky" fluke? What would Occam's method suggest? If they, for the sake of arguement, were informed: How and by whom?
8. Why when civil aviation was strictly grounded across the entire country were the the Bush oil family's Saudi oil family friends and partners ushered out of the USA with a military escort? What was the reason given that such a spontaneous exit was necessary and is it believable or does it even make the slightest sense to justify such odd and preferential treatment, to someone with a scrutinizing mind with properly working critcal faculties? Was the now proposed dead renegade son of the Saudi oil family, officially proposed as the financier mastermind behind "the attacks", set up as a ringer to help those who profited, profit in the ensuing invasion of the Iraqi oilfields and museums?
9. How did Mohammed Atta's passport survive from the plane considering the violence of the kerosine explosion as you describe it?.. and then after that, how did it clone itself? Who was Mohammed Atta and was he connected to the CIA in some way?
10. Why do eye witnesses at the Pentagon site, including Pentagon guards describe, all in inerringly matching accounts, as to witnessing a very large plane flying extremely low "at" the Pentagon at a trajectory/path differing entirely from the official sanctioned account of events, which when as reported, almost seemingly too late, veered away back to a higher altitude and away shortly before the actual impact..be it another plane or not?
11. Does the sheer volume of factual data researched and collated in relation to significant and glaring anomalies to the official account who actually died in "the attacks", name by name, warrant dismissing with, pardon me, with an almost bullying emotive churlishness and overly simplified rhetorical appeals to distress and decency rather than being factually understood to at least the extent to make informed comment about the massive amount of errors, inconsistencies and non existents also "found" to be "real", as no doubt a great number of actual victims were?

All off-topic and almost unlinked to the topic (unless you'd care to elaborate further) which is 100% Conclusive Proof of No-Planes & TV-Fakery on 9/11 in under 8 minutes. I'll concede that two of my six questions were similarly disqualified, but the other four I CAN show strong links to the topic. Try again.

It's 2011, don't hide behind that pathetic "off topic!" nonsense -- you state the official account of events is true in your opinion, so i ask you, in light of this, to answer the questions posed. It's a conspiracy site, last time I checked and if you want to frequent it declaring the official account true and NIST a "masterwork" then answer the questions. It's ON topic.

[rsol]

you seem to be confused.

whether it was an inside job or not. planes did hit those buildings.

[Bull Medicine]

(07-16-2011 08:52 PM)rsol Wrote:  whether it was an inside job or not.

you seem to be the one who is confused...

[JazzRoc]

(07-16-2011 01:57 PM)Bull Medicine Wrote:  It's 2011, don't hide behind that pathetic "off topic!" nonsense

Look, bozo, communication involves mutuality and exchange. NOT deflection and confrontation.

You replied to my questions with questions. So tell me, why shouldn't I reply to YOUR questions with FURTHER questions? Do you see where this leads?

Quote:you state the official account of events is true in your opinion

I certainly don't.

My complaint is with slack-jawed fools bad-mouthing engineering reports they simply don't understand to maintain a mythical conspiracy theory.

Quote:So i ask you, in light of this, to answer the questions posed.

Hypocrite much?

Quote:It's a conspiracy site, last time I checked

So where is the (other than Arab) conspiracy here, if the physical facts check out for the impacting 767s possessing all the energy required to bring down all three structures?

Quote:and if you want to frequent it declaring the official account true and NIST a "masterwork" then answer the questions. It's ON topic.

I don't need YOUR permission, mate.
And it isn't "on-topic" at all. Which is:
"100% Conclusive Proof of No-Planes & TV-Fakery on 9/11".
Which would be OK except for there being ZERO PROOF within it.
Would you care to supply some?

[rsol]

(07-17-2011 12:21 AM)Bull Medicine Wrote:  

(07-16-2011 08:52 PM)rsol Wrote:  whether it was an inside job or not.

you seem to be the one who is confused...

weak.. very weak. you seem to want to argue rather than find conclusion. your fault. say something of worth then you can tell others. Ive been studying this since those planes entered the twin towers. so far all ive seen from you is argument. if you wish to just bitch and troll please consider youtube as your place of conversation. plenty of like minds there.

your statements have no relevance to the topic at hand. you talk of missing money and runs on shares what the FUCK has that to do with the subject apart from you proving you can copy and paste?

[stonecutter]

I'm not trying to disrupt a good pissing contest, but I too have become a "no-planer"... Do I know that a plane did not hit any of the WTC buildings? No. I wasn't there. But I do know that the garbage videos we've been shown are doctored and are a composite (the LIVE helicopter shot with the landing gear swinging into frame is astoundingly absurd). I've got many hours (countless) of shooting with all types of cameras, and tons of B-roll that includes planes and jets, from various distances, in various lighting circumstances. Not one of those shots looks anything like the composite planes in the footage from 9/11. NOT ONE. Not anything resembling a black blob (ON A CLEAR DAY). Even when critical focus is not on the plane, it's still quite clearly an actual plane.
I'm actually looking for ANY video footage, from any other day, that resembles the plane shots from 9/11. Anyone know of any?

And the sources of all the supposed amateur footage speaks volumes as well (all media related sources). Doctored, just like the Zapruder footage.