How Old Do You Really Have to Be to Buy Beer? UPDATED INFO

[NickHedge]

I like to sit back and have a beer when I get back to my room every so often. I don't drink regularly but one of the few luxuries that I allow myself is to have a beer when I get off work. I don't like bars because of the people and prices. I would rather drink in my own surroundings and comfortably instead of constantly fending off drunks (men and women), music that is too loud and annoying, being tired and uncomfortable. So with all that being said here is something that has been going on for a long time but is getting worse now.

Now I realize that there are many people on this board that live outside the US. I don't know what your laws are involving alcohol, so I am only speaking to the people here in the US.

Have you ever paid attention to the place you live in and what the legal drinking age is? I don't really pay attention to it much since I travel regularly but I assume that it is either 18 or 21.

I was in the local Marsh grocery store today buying my groceries for the week and I just happened to pick up a 6 pack of beer. When I had entered the store I had seen the big sign posted by the office that told me that as of tomorrow (July 1, 2010) due to a new law you will be carded when purchasing alcohol if you don't LOOK 50 years old. That's right, 50 years old.

Okay, whatever I thought. I went about my shopping and came to the register. What does the girl at the register say? "How old are you?" Well, of course I went into smart ass mode right away. I looked at her and said "How old do I look to you?". She said without even blinking, in her most drone like voice "How old are you?". I came back with "Do I look 21?" Then she said in her most android like voice "License please". I felt like I was being pulled over by a cop. I then reluctantly handed over my license and told her that what she was doing was in fact "Profiling".

Needless to say this cashier looked young, had the butch haircut and was every inch dyke like. She looked at me with that same loathing attitude that most lesbians have when dealing with a MAN. They hate men you know.

So she looked at the license and handed it back and scanned through the beer. I told her that what the store was doing was illegal. She didn't bother to look at me and said "I have a job to do". I told her that the job that she was being instructed to do was against the law. She came back with "I do the job that I am instructed to do". I knew at that point that it was hopeless, she had turned me off from the start and was only speaking in the programmed voice. However, the bag boy was listening!

At the end she asked me for my customer rewards card. I handed that over and proceeded to correct her by saying "You actually mean my 'Consumer Purchase Tracking Card'. She took it, scanned it and rolled her eyes. She could not wait to get rid of me. However, the customers behind me heard everything that was said. Even the bag boy piped up and said "You know I never thought about the card like that before". Touche'

Here's my point. Does anyone remember when this type of "profiling" began? I do. It started with Walmart. They are the ones who started doing this by saying that "New Company Policy Is......". They skirt the law by instituting "Company Policy". But if someone was to push the company policy in a court of law against the state law they would most likely win. Companies do have the right to set any policy they want. But the LAW says that anyone over the age of 21 can buy beer. ABC (Liquor) stores don't do what these other stores do and they are in the alcohol business. But the grocery stores can say that they have to deal with younger people that don't frequent liquor stores. Well true enough, but......

What about the people under 21 who are behind the register handling the alcohol and ringing it up and bagging it and selling it essentially. How can you have a teenager doing that and then have that same teenager stand there and demand that you prove you are 50 years old? But the teenager can't even buy the stuff.....but yet they sell it. What's wrong with this picture and why hasn't anyone ever challenged this before? It's not a law, it's a store policy.

But yes, I am going to have to research this new law and see what it in fact does say and how the grocery stores are manipulating it for their own purposes. But aside from the new law this practice has been in place for at least 25-30 years in this country. And no one has ever challenged it.

I guess from now on I have to make 2 stops instead of one because even though I am 50 years old I have to prove it to some snot nosed little brat who can't even drink. I think not. I will make the extra stop and not worry about having to prove it to a fellow adult.

Fascinating.....

[FastTadpole]

It's really a Know Your Customer implementation that's going viral worldwide. One way or another they associate a purchase with a legal entity (you). They use the means of customer cards, IDs and bank/credit cards to associate your purchase data which eventually ends up being carnivored and compiled into your profile along with health, criminal and personality/physiological records. I heard of a lady who had saved up all her dollars and went into an Apple store to purchase a iPad and put a stack of cash out to buy it. "No can do, credit card or debt card only" was the mantra they puppeted. That associates every iPhone, iPad, iPod or iToast-R-Oven with a person + the added benefit of ushering in a cashless society.

On the booze front, and ciggys for that matter, we have had signage here in Canada that went from look under 21 to 25 and now 30. Drinking smoking age is 18. I used to be able to get smokes and beers when I was 14 if I went to the right venue but not a chance in that anymore. I get carded about 20% of the time at which point I either show them pictures of my teenage kid or get another random customer to vouch for me and pretend they know me. I don't carry ID or a cell phone, which is basically the same thing. May as well be chipped.

Pardon me for the thread drift but this needs to be said and repeated until people get it, although this crowd is more aware than other groups peeling at the outer layers of the onion:

"We the people will NOT be chipped."

If that's the line in the sand held by most of us we've already lost.

I drew a hard line at cell phones. The people are kidding themselves if they think they aren't basically 'chipped' already. Your cell phone can be monitored (audio and video if you have it), ping your GPS coordinates (8M by NSA on Sprint alone in 2009), get hacked, contain financial information, it's linked with the "know your customer" program, any online data gets carnivored and it causes tumours (Dr. Magda Havas). Millions of CCTVs, hi-res satellites, a fleet drones ready to launch, our computers, our bank cards, your TV (it has eyes and ears), our customer cards, your car (and not just OnStar - check behind your airbag) and active & passive RFID (they can be reactivated) on pretty much any consumer product you can buy. Not to mention neighbourhood snoops and the ever growing military / police / inspector / security contingent whose paid to watch and keep you in line paid for with your money.

The only things that they might want is direct access to the hypothalamus via a chip so they have a more direct path to influence our minds and engineer our emotions.

A similar effect can be achieved with a combination of drugs, certain frequencies (HAARP?), TV influence and social programming/engineering.

We are being treated like farm animals. How long will people, starting with you and I, put up with this abusive relationship playing the role of the banking elite's bitches? People are so far removed from real freedom they don't even know what it truly encompasses.

[NickHedge]

I feel like I've died and gone to heaven reading your post. I believe (based on the threads that I have read since I have been here) that this post Fast is one of the most succinct and concise posts that I have ever read. It was actually a joy to read it. Maybe it is just the day or the moment but you put it straight all the way down the line.

I think that people for the most part are so lazy and complacent that its just too much work to do anything anymore. They will always have the energy to complain, but not much beyond that. Like I have always said they are too medded up to do anything. Too desensitized, too fat, too dumbed down, too confused, too weak. It's those few of us who haven't given in.

When I worked at Presidential Air (Former Air Wing of Blackwater), I was given a choice when I first got there. (They don't tell you these little details at the contract house), but I was told that I would be REQUIRED to have a cell phone in order to do my job. I asked them how that had a damn thing to do with working on aircraft. Their answer? When you are away from the facility you may need to be contacted. And I look at the guy and say yeah? and? He looked at me and told me that when they need to contact you they need to contact you and it is your responsibility to be able to be contacted. I'm like whatever dude.

It seems that right before I got there Blackwater was actually supplying all the direct employees by GIVING them Blackberry's upon hiring. Contractors need to have them when they show up to work. That was a first for me. I was at a crossroads. I had a choice to make, do I say F You and walk away or do I get a burn phone and get the job experience for later utilization later on. I needed the helicopter experience and they were willing to take a chance on a good mechanic that even though he didn't have that much experience was worth the risk. So I essentially compromised my standards. That is what it is in the end. Compromise. For what? Future job possibilities. But is that good enough or just an excuse? I still struggle with that.

I marvel at the places I do business with and the fact that they EXPECT you to have a cell phone. They look at you like you are from Mars if you don't. I can't get over the attitude I get when I say NO CELL PHONE.

But you are right, they have us all no matter which way we go. Food, Air, Water, Clothes, electronics, automobiles, etc.

I still drive an older truck refusing to get a new one. I keep this one up to keep from going to one with a computer in it. I pay dearly in Insurance because I am penalized for it. If it isn't listed as an antique they see it as a liability. But I have to take a stand somewhere.

The cards at the grocery stores. I have had people tell me "Just use a phoney name on them". But that does no good if you use plastic to pay for your food. The card ties back to your credit or atm card. No win situation. Unless you use cash. I try as much as possible but not always able to do that. You don't leave cash in motel rooms. You don't carry large amounts on you. I do the best I can to plan for what I will spend but shit happens.

They make it hard and it is hard. 24/7/365 you have to stay on your toes and not get sidestepped by something as innocuous as giving in to a cell phone or a new car or a new tv, etc.

I remember when 911 happened. I was working in Seattle and I watched the news that morning and watched my chosen career field go up in flames. I knew what was coming. So I took a break from it for a year and went and helped out a friend that ran a storage facility. I figured I would take that time and see how things played out and I would decide after a year.

What I found was interesting was the people who were working at the other facilities in the area that was in the chain. We would move around from location to location filling in and helping out as needed. Alot of the older resident managers were CONVINCED that the company was watching them through the computer monitors in their offices. They were absolutely convinced. I thought at the time these people were off their rockers but then again it was just before I started seeing things for what they really were. But looking back on it now I see it a little differently. Of course I don't think the company could do that but maybe more nefarious forces could. But these people refused to use their computers anymore than they were forced too. It was sad in a way and this was in '01.

Trying to eat food that hasn't been treated or tainted some how is nearly impossible. If you aren't growing your own food then what? If you do grow your own food you have to be very, very careful about the seeds you use. You have to know the seed companies and who owns them. It's not as easy as people think. Then you have the chem trails and the shit that falls on your food from the skies. Plus what you are breathing.

Like I said it is an individual choice in the end. We can't help the masses because the masses don't want the help. The masses see us as the enemy thanks to the propaganda. Thanks again for the great post.

[h3rm35]

Wouldn't it be profiling not to ask you for ID? If this cashier just let you roll through, it would be her depending on her preconceived notion of what someone over the age of 21 looked like, right? From the way you described it, it sounded like if you just told her how old you were she never would have asked for your license...

Completely agreed on the bullshit "rewards" card.
a few years ago, most grocery stores I went to would have a "courtesy" card at all register for those that didn't feel like dealing with the whole application process and invasion of privacy. Nowadays, It seems as though they're dead-set on tracking every purchase you make. I went through a line recently, and I had forgotten the card I talked a cashier into activating for me without applying (it was quite a debate, but it worked,) and if I didn't use one a $30 purchase would have cost over $40... there was a huge line - it was about 6PM - and she flat out refused to give me the "Club" price. She actually made me leave the line, go over to the customer service desk, fill in an apllication with totally bogus information, then wait another 22 minutes on line to simply finish the transaction. I had to wait 22 fucking minutes to PAY THEM MONEY.

Fuckers.

"Rewards" my ass.

[FastTadpole]

For rewards cards a group of about 6-10 of us just recite the number of a person we commonly know to get the member discount price. .. just to frak with the system. I carry cash only and spend it immediately and ride a bike, carry no ID and barter when I can. I recently declined to be a registered voter. Yes I am on social networks but I use it more than it uses me, or so I think. Besides I signed on the net anyways which is like a global mind tracking and profiling system. I'd like to avoid taxes but that's stupid in this system so I just run a home based business and get a few deductions + less travel time.

It exists but we exist in it so we abide by it since we are held at gunpoint. We feel powerless and apathetic. We protest it and get thrown in crowded vans full of piss. The so called elite are pushing the despair button, taking our power while harvesting our energy and common resources because they think they know better or are addicted to control. Despair is what they want because each and every one of us represent a threat to that power base. When enough people stop feeding that corrupt power and start directing our collective energies to building a world directed voluntarism that serves the contributors.

[April]

Quote:I feel like I've died and gone to heaven reading your post. I believe (based on the threads that I have read since I have been here) that this post Fast is one of the most succinct and concise posts that I have ever read. It was actually a joy to read it. Maybe it is just the day or the moment but you put it straight all the way down the line.

HAAaaa....
I felt the same way. I literally said out loud " Fucking incredible post FastTadPole," only to continue on to find your paragraph. ~small concen moment~ lol

I enjoyed your original thread starter also NH.

I'm carded 100% of the time. I hate it... and 8 times out of 10, I say something to the cashier also. The responses I've gotten over the years don't leave me optimistic anymore honestly.

About three months ago, while leaving the grocery store, and being carded for wine.... the cashier ACTUALLY TOLD ME, that iris scanners would be what solves this problem. I think my heart stopped beating for a second. The woman wasn't against the idea either..... The way she told me, it was like she was given some "inside knowledge" from a district manager at a meeting or something. She was confident, that in the future..... that is the next technology that will be introduced.... and physically IDing people won't be necessary.

It's going to be easy to sell the idea to the public.... IMO

AS CUSTOMERS.... people are sick of being treated this way. It's an inconvenience..
problem, reaction, solution.

As for customer rewards cards...... I think people ( like us ) should get rid of them. (or at least that's our strategy) What's the catch.... sales on products? FUCK their SALES ! AT the COST of what? MY PRIVACY ! When you sign up for rewards cards.... those corporations sell your address to anyone that benefits them in the conglomerate world. THIS is where physical JUNK MAIL comes from. We HATE junk mail ! HATE

I don't use coupons.... I don't look at coupons. I use to..... as I was RAISED to. My mom is a SLAVE to advertisements, junk mail, and coupons. Seriously...... If I could calculate all the time she has spent on going through ads, looking for ads.... adjusting her time according to ads..... cleaning up and finally throwing away ads... SHE DIDN'T SAVE AN EFFING THING. The way i see it..... she LOST ! THEY GOT HER.... and her time... and her money.

Quote:I heard of a lady who had saved up all her dollars and went into an Apple store to purchase a iPad and put a stack of cash out to buy it. "No can do, credit card or debt card only" was the mantra they puppeted. That associates every iPhone, iPad, iPod or iToast-R-Oven with a person + the added benefit of ushering in a cashless society.

I don't believe this. I'd bet it's a rumor completely. Daniel and I paid for our iMac with cash just around new years. THEY DID treat us as if they weren't used to customers making purchases in the way that we did..... but I'd be surprised if apple store's aren't accepting cash.

Rewards cards are SCAMS.... and it's an illusion that a person is actually "rewarded."

Carding people sucks.... but the solution they are going to give us.... WON'T be a solution.

lastly.... I always thought the age laws on alcohol were retarded. In the United States, you can sign up for the army, be given guns, and kill people LEGALLY in other countries before you can even DRINK LEGALLY in your OWN COUNTRY. That alone, is sad IMO.

sigh.

[NickHedge]

Well this is an update on my situation so far.

Yesterday (Friday) I stopped by the Liquor Store to check on an order I had put in with the manager to see if she could secure me a case of Leinenkugel 1888 Bock. (I discovered it too late and it was seasonal, but she thought someone might still have some at one of the other stores). Anyway, when I went in she told me "no can do", all has been returned to the warehouse or whatever. So I mixed a 6 pack with some new beers I had yet to try and went up to the register.

Guess what I found when I got there? That's right, the carding bullshit. Well with it being the manager who checked me out, she slid a piece of paper over to me and proceeded to explain that the news had made a major blunder in reporting this new law (who would have thunk it). She told me to read the paper. I did and what I read surprised me in a very unnerving kind of way.

The paper (which I need to find on line somehow, so far I can't) said in plain language that ALL PEOPLE will be carded. I looked at the manager and she smiled and nodded in agreement. She told me that her customers are raising holy hell about this. They had watched the news and got upset and then came in there and got EVEN MORE UPSET when finding out about EVERYONE BEING CARDED. It has nothing to do with over 50, it has more to do with who has their PAPERS! HELLO!!!!

She went on to tell me that if I came in her store 7 - 8 times in one day she would have to card me EVERY SINGLE TIME. This is the new law. I wonder how many other states have these or are getting ready to pass them.

Well, needless to say when I got back to the room and sat down with ONE OF MY BEERS, I thought about our conversation and what is going on in the news right now.

The conclusion that I came to is that this is nothing more than PAPERS PLEASE. They talk about the illegals and profiling but it isn't so much directed at them as it is with us. The illegals are the decoys so to speak. We are the ones that it is being perpetrated on. We are the ones who will have to show papers. Once it is accepted with alcohol (and alot of people "consume" alcohol) it will be with everything and by that time we will all be conditioned to it. They are putting it in our faces and we can't get past the obvious to see the reality of it.

It is going to be a much different playing field for us by the end of the year. I am feeling this stronger and stronger every day.

[FastTadpole]

This is going to be taken to a whole new level and make most other surveillance moot if we let that smart dust be deployed. Let's not take our eyes off the ball this is very real and there are powerful (at least as much as we give them) corporations behind it like HP, IBM, Cisco and Shell Dutch Oil. Probably a few silent partners with a vested interest too.

Getting back to the more mundane. They used to take pictures of everyone's IDs ~10 years ago but it hurt sales a bit and slowed down efficiency so they ditched it. One of the beer stores still does it though and no id, no matter how old looking, no sale -- at least until they have a photo of your ID for their customer database.

Google "Know your Customer" for more info.

[h3rm35]

Quote:Google "Know your Customer" for more info.

pun intended?

[NinjB]

How about, how old do you have to be to make alcohol? I'm still buying kits, but, it's relatively cheap and easy! Also about smoking. I've got a book that says young Hawthorn leaves can be a tobacco substitute and this is spooky (joke) I planted two Hawthorns about a week from budding and the frost got them! so got two trees full of brown leaves that look smokeable! Either I'll update or get a darwin award. Cheers

[---]

outstanding post there, NinjB

[NickHedge]

Something that was mentioned to me a month or so ago at the last gun show that was in town was that no more gun sales in the state of Indiana to people who do not have STATE DRIVERS LICENSES. You cannot buy a gun now in this state if you have a state ID Card. I asked the dealer what difference did it make whether it was an ID or DL and he said that as far as Indiana was concerned the ID card didn't count as official ID. I'm like WHAT?! The state issues both cards, so what difference does it make? He couldn't really elaborate beyond that point. This was only a month or so ago. I don't know how long it has been like that and I didn't think to ask.

People will whine and cry but they will go along. Look at what they have put up with up to this point.

One of the things that the manager mentioned to me that I forgot to include in my previous post was that you CANNOT just flash your ID when buying alcohol. You have to take your ID out of its holder (wallet, etc) and HAND IT TO THEM. They will not touch any holder that it is in. You must physically remove it and hand it to them. She said that was going over like a fart in church with the customers. They are raising more hell about that than having to show it. Think about that.

[NickHedge]

I was in the liquor store yesterday with a friend of mine and we were picking up some beer. I was riding with him and didn't bother to take my wallet because I didn't think I would be needing it since he was buying the beer. How wrong can someone be these days? Well this is how wrong I was.

We go in, he picks his choice and I pick mine. We get in the line and while the guy ahead of us is checking out I grab the sheet of paper off the counter (that I was referring to earlier in this thread). The manager had printed it out and placed it on the counter for the customers to refer to when they had a squawk about the new law. Well, I grabbed it and was showing it to my friend who hadn't seen it yet. I was thinking to myself, I need to get a copy of this and post it on the forum so everyone can see what a REAL ID state does.

So we get up to the register and luckily the cashier is a drone. She cards my friend of course and then looks at me and asks for mine. I look at her and ask why? She told me because I had "handled" the beer. I asked if I could go wait in the car and everything be ok? She said sure. So I took the piece of paper with me like nothing was out of the ordinary. She was so busy making sure she was carding everyone she didn't catch it.

The reason I couldn't find this on the net is because it is an "interoffice" memo of sorts. This was strictly to the store managers on how to handle their customers. But I thought folks here would be interested to see just how militaristic things are.

Here is what it said:

MANDATORY CARDING

Indiana Association of Beverage Retailers
200 South Meridan Street, Suite 350
Indianapolis, Indiana 46225-1076
317-684-7580/1-888-838-IABR/317-673-4210 Fax

Beginning July 1st, it will be mandatory to card everyone who makes an alcohol purchase for carry out. Although some news reports have stated mandatory carding for "everyone under 50", the law is clear: Mandatory carding for everyone. Every retailer must comply, including drug and grocery stores as well as restaurants/bars for carry out.

MANDATORY CARDING RECOMMENDATIONS

*Start mandatory carding before the deadline
*Post a sign at counter or entrance to prepare customers prior to implementing (IABR has signage available)
*Consider a letter from the owner informing customers of the change and asking their support in helping you to be in compliance

*Prepare your "REGULARS" in advance
***By starting before the deadline you can give your "regulars" a warning before you refuse service to a good customer and empower your clerks to be discretionary in order to serve some without ID before it is required by law

*Train Employees
**Make sure your employees understand WHY
***Discuss the failure rate in the compliance checks
***This is one more step to keep alcohol out of the hands of minors
***When it is a habit, clerks won't "forget" to card when they are busy
***Clerks won't make a bad judgment call on a guest's age

*Be polite even if customers are upset

*If you have to refuse service don't be judgmental, use empathy. Continue to repeat recommended statements and the customer will tend to eventually understand

*Look the customer in the eye and continue to repeat yourself if necessary

*Use statements like:
***Our company policy does not allow me to serve you alcohol without an ID
***It is against the law for me to serve you alcohol without an ID
***I know this is frustrating but we have to follow the law
***I know you are upset but carding everyone helps us to never serve a minor
***I'm sorry but I could get fired if I serve you

*Monitor employees to determine they are in compliance

*Be supportive of the law and the need to do everything to keep alcohol out of the hands of minors
*Owners and Managers should be available in the beginning to handle difficult customers
*Although it can be difficult at first, store owners who have already implemented mandatory carding indicate customers comply after an initial introductory period.

If you have any questions please contact the IABR staff Debbie Scott at 317-673-4211/888-838-4227 or dscott@Imvconsulting.com (That could be I or L in the email name)

*******

This is what it has come to folks. Listen to the wording and think about what is being said. Every single time they say "It's for the children" you know that it isn't. Any minors that I know that want to drink get an adult to buy it for them. It isn't for the children.....it's for you who they see as "Children". You're the children.

What a load of shit. And NO they didn't want this to be posted on the internet. But we can't all have what we want now can we?

And something else that I want to mention. I was informed by my friend later that day that had we been stopped by cops while out and I did not have my ID, I could have been arrested. FOR NOT HAVING MY ID. And they are giving Arizona shit over what again?

[h3rm35]

they're giving Arizona shit over racial profiling. It's discriminatory. Most locales in the US can detain (not arrest) you if you refuse or can't give ID, until they can verify your identity. I'm not saying that it's right, but it's not race-based at least.

[NickHedge]

But what is going on here as "everyday, run of the mill" is what the idiots are yelling about where Arizona is "attempting to do with their law". It is already happening to the whites and anyone else for that matter here. It's standard operating procedure. Why isn't anyone saying anything else about it in support of Arizona? I mean hell, it's already being done, why not stand up and say "Hey, that is going on here everyday, where's the problem?"

The argument that is being put out by the media is that Mexicans, Latinos or whatever they are wanting to be called today are being threatened with being carded wherever they go and whatever they do. That is what is going on here for the most part with EVERYONE. Where is the difference? You go shopping you will be carded, if you are RIDING in a vehicle you will be carded, you go to a restaurant, carded, buying insurance, renewing licenses, etc - carded. You could be standing on the street doing nothing and a cop could card you. Where is the friggin' difference here?