America No. 1?

[Deathaniel]

(04-28-2010 08:04 PM)nik Wrote:  

(04-28-2010 07:04 PM)Deathanyl Wrote:  i used to work in telecommunications and after katrinia alot of us from the north were sent down to help with the clean up..

Before this happened were you already convinced the world was about to end?

Yes and world ending is stretch, this world ending yes, and have known since late 80's and as i wasted 8 years in university i got the habit of doing too much research, not believing what I was reading/ learning....

WE bought the village in 1998 as an exit strategy, but was a scout and so have always been about self-sufficiency and the outdoors.

Katrinia was just a job, need capital to make sure me and mine survive but seriously the state of the infrastructure down there is a definite sign as to how long "they" need things to last for. they have known much longer then my type of knowledge holders

but i do enjoy a more open 2012 atmosphere that has risen, as for the most part out side of my circle we never discussed dates, or our plan, and legally it as all been black ops for all of the sections so nothing can be seized by govs if they got wind/ or we got caught doing something they don't approve of... the ones before the past 2 years who preached or spoke openly of what is were silenced if credible, or laughed off as false as they were forecasting deep into the future...

now with easily provable scientific evidence of what is to come and being so close, i have seen more awareness, and some of the many of the prophesies i have been watching for are happening or have happened, so my awareness in short has been for all my adult life, and has shaped it in ways one can not imagine, will it be worth it? Guess we'll see what happens, either way i have a comfort in knowing if i have a place to go, guns to defend it, and skills to keep it going. Worse case i end up retiring early and live to a ripe old age off the grid, and as a ghost out in my own community with other like minded people...

Either way...

[NickHedge]

Yo Deathanyl, don't worry I wasn't raggin' on you about you laughing at the movie. I was contrasting off you because the majority of the people that have recommended it to me always describe it as "funny as hell". So I understand where you were coming from.

Also not trying to insinuate to anyone that they are judging the US without having traveled here or lived here. I try not to speak about places outside the US since I have never been there. Despite what the papers and media says about them I know that that information is tainted and not truthful, so I can safely say that I know nothing about anything outside the US.

We are in fact entitled to our own opinions and what is within our own comfort zones. The reason I feel comfortable going where we have gone with this topic is because the people involved in this discussion are intelligent and are capable of stating their points of view without reducing themselves to trivialities. Which in this case makes this discussion interesting and fun.

I just can't see myself walking around here when the shit hits the fan, holding a book of statistics going "but the statistics show this wasn't supposed to happen". Know what I mean?

[---]

(04-28-2010 08:59 PM)NickHedge Wrote:  I just can't see myself walking around here when the shit hits the fan, holding a book of statistics going "but the statistics show this wasn't supposed to happen". Know what I mean?

you are from the movie 'idiocracy 2: morans get smug' obviously

[NickHedge]

There are those that hold fast to numbers you know. And I believe you mean "moron".

[---]

(04-28-2010 08:49 PM)Deathanyl Wrote:  

(04-28-2010 08:04 PM)nik Wrote:  

(04-28-2010 07:04 PM)Deathanyl Wrote:  i used to work in telecommunications and after katrinia alot of us from the north were sent down to help with the clean up..

Before this happened were you already convinced the world was about to end?

Yes and world ending is stretch, this world ending yes, and have known since late 80's and as i wasted 8 years in university i got the habit of doing too much research, not believing what I was reading/ learning....

WE bought the village in 1998 as an exit strategy, but was a scout and so have always been about self-sufficiency and the outdoors.

Katrinia was just a job, need capital to make sure me and mine survive but seriously the state of the infrastructure down there is a definite sign as to how long "they" need things to last for. they have known much longer then my type of knowledge holders

but i do enjoy a more open 2012 atmosphere that has risen, as for the most part out side of my circle we never discussed dates, or our plan, and legally it as all been black ops for all of the sections so nothing can be seized by govs if they got wind/ or we got caught doing something they don't approve of... the ones before the past 2 years who preached or spoke openly of what is were silenced if credible, or laughed off as false as they were forecasting deep into the future...

now with easily provable scientific evidence of what is to come and being so close, i have seen more awareness, and some of the many of the prophesies i have been watching for are happening or have happened, so my awareness in short has been for all my adult life, and has shaped it in ways one can not imagine, will it be worth it? Guess we'll see what happens, either way i have a comfort in knowing if i have a place to go, guns to defend it, and skills to keep it going. Worse case i end up retiring early and live to a ripe old age off the grid, and as a ghost out in my own community with other like minded people...

Either way...

Thing about New Orleans is, as I understand it, it has always been a liability in terms of how close to sea level it is - but the states needs to keep it up and running as it is a primary energy conduit for the national apparatus.

---

(04-28-2010 09:04 PM)NickHedge Wrote:  There are those that hold fast to numbers you know. And I believe you mean "moron".

do you? that's nice to know You can believe whatever you like - obviously hard data makes no difference.

population - being ransacked.

MIC - doing just fine.

---

my spelling was intentional btw. Happy daze

[NickHedge]

Deathanyl - I got one for you.

I was working at a maintenance facility about 4 + years ago and at the time the facility was in fact employing illegals as "aircraft mechanics". They spoke no english but yet worked on the airplanes. At this particular facility the company had a number of contract houses employed and one of them was funneling in illegals. The onsite coordinator would get the order for a number of them from the company and he would make arrangements for that number to be delivered to the facility. When they arrived he would have all their paperwork ready for them. Drivers Licenses, social security cards, Mechanics Licenses, birth certificates, etc. This costs the average illegal thousands of dollars. They have to pay this back. One of the illegals was actually living at the facility in a room upstairs that was no longer being used. The way he worked his time he managed to show that he was working 29 hours a day. Well we know that there isn't that many hours in a day but he was actually being paid for those hours.

How it works is in aircraft maintenance, companies like Continental, United, etc., contract out their planes to be repaired at what are called MRO's - Maintenance Repair Organizations. Every plane that comes in has a specific check that has to be done due to the hours that are on that particular aircraft. So with all work that is done each particular job has a job card and a certain amount of hours for that job to be completed. This guy would clock to one job and then to another and then another and go disappear and not show back up until the next day. The way the hours added up they would actually show more than 24 hours a day of work performed. And for a time he got paid for it. He wasn't a genius, he just stumbled onto a glitch in the system.

The illegals basically when working on aircraft did not read or speak english, so what they did was look at the pictures in the maintenance manuals and duplicate what they saw. If you questioned them on what they did they would point to the picture. Frightening isn't it? Makes you want to fly on airplanes doesn't it?

At the time this was happening, there was a simultaneous sting operation being conducted by the INS called "Project Tarmac" at multiple MRO's. I'm sure there is information on this somewhere. But the INS busted several MRO's at one time and swept all the illegals out and sent them all packing. Now you can't find any working in those type of facilities. Or at least I haven't seen any in years.

That was a bad time in the aircraft business because of the fact that these companies were looking for anyway possible to cut costs and if it meant bringing in illegals to do the work they would do it. There are alot of things that go on with aircraft that regular people do not know about and if they did would never fly again. There are a few of us still out there who do care about the job we do and do realize that we are responsible for hundreds of lives and want to do the best work we can to ensure safety but the management continually thwarts that effort.

On a lighter side note: I was having a conversation recently with a pilot who is a contract pilot for FedEx. He was telling me about how the FedEx pilots (direct employees) are catered to by FedEx.

When the FedEx planes come in the pilots (flight crew) are shuttled from the plane in a special van that only flight crew can ride in to a nice hotel to await their departure times. They aren't forced to wait their time out in the shitty pilots lounge at the airport. They get catered meals brought on the plane for them, not just any meals. They make 6 figures a year and only work about 6 months.

I wasn't aware the FedEx pilots were so special.

---

nik,

That's the mentality of this country. Perfect example of why things will fail. And the guy in the picture seems to be proud of it no less.

Like I said, I don't hold fast to numbers, (some do) BUT I go one step further, I pay attention to my immediate surroundings and take note of what is happening despite what I am being told by the MSM. Think about it for a minute. These people sitting around writing books and spouting numbers - are they where we are? Living in our worlds? Experiencing things first hand? Or are they sitting in a cushy office somewhere, smoking a pipe and looking down on the useless eaters? I tend to think it is the latter. When I see them walking the streets and talking to people and engaging then I might take what they say seriously.

That isn't a selfish attitude to have. In order to survive you have to be aware of your surroundings and environment. You need to know what is going on around you. If you depend on what someone says that is thousands of miles away that have never even been familiar with your way of life how can they possibly know what is really going on?

I take information in, assimilate it and make my own decisions.

And I had no way of knowing that your spelling was intentional without seeing the picture. Private jokes more often than not remain private until being shared with someone. You may laugh and think its funny but we see you laughing and think you an idiot.

[---]

yes but Nick, you are still seemingly unable to divorce the fact of a population being ransacked from the concept of a beleaguered military industrial complex...

this is entering into the time of austerity - the actual power block that is America is massively strong still - even if not evidenced in your immediate surroundings. JMO

Also, your agricultural harvesting needs would be screwed without illegals..as the system you live with is currently structured anyhow.

---

(04-28-2010 09:42 PM)NickHedge Wrote:  And I had no way of knowing that your spelling was intentional without seeing the picture. Private jokes more often than not remain private until being shared with someone. You may laugh and think its funny but we see you laughing and think you an idiot.

fuck it. whatever dude..

[NickHedge]

Most of the commercial harvesting is done by machine. The illegals are there for the smaller harvesting, things that have to be done by hand. Now that is just the food stuffs. When you get into the tobacco harvesting, only burley tobacco can be harvested by machine. The other, Flue tobacco, has to be done by hand because of how it has to be harvested. This is where illegals are employed. You will never find illegals employed to large degrees (as pickers) in large industrial harvesting.

Almost all of the root crops are done via machine in the commercial arena.

Your more delicate crops such as tomatoes, grapes, strawberries, mushrooms, etc are done by illegals.

The bulk of commercial harvesting in this country consists of three primary crops: Grain (Wheat, Rye, Rice, etc), Corn & Soy. The vastest majority of these crops ARE NOT for human consumption. They are grown primarily for FEED. Quite a bit of which is in fact exported and those crops are primarily machine harvested. You will never find illegals working those operations. And when you look at the parts of the country that deal in those crops you are looking at 2/3's of the country. The midwest and southern quadrant. You may find illegals operating the machines, but not working the fields.

Yes, illegals are integral to the agricultural aspect of the country on the whole. Once the whites are unemployed long enough and suffer enough hardships, the illegals will have their jobs taken from them.

As far as my attitude toward the MIC I would have to say that I have not made myself clear. Let's see if I can articulate it any better.

Yes, for the most part we have a strong military. BUT when you spread your forces in too many countries there will come a point of being stretched too thin. Is there any country in the world that we could not overtake if we threw everything we had at it? Probably not. But we couldn't hold it for long. And that is bearing in mind that we keep a reasonable force here in this country, but we pull EVERYTHING we have in all other countries and concentrate all our power on one target. We could take any country but not hold it. We won't do that though. We will continue to spread out and sprinkle troops in places of interest to us. We could have stormed Iraq, we can storm Afghanistan or any other place, but that is not the intent. We are there for personal reasons not for war.

I will say this, that Clinton (under orders from above) dismantled quite a few of our military bases and in doing so forced unemployment to go up - even though the Clinton regime constantly reminded us of how well off we were. When a military base closes down so do all the surrounding businesses. You can kill a town completely by shutting down a military base. He closed 90 some bases in 8 years. It didn't do anything to strengthen us.

Just because we are strong today doesn't mean we will be tomorrow. If we came under attack tomorrow and have the majority of our troops around the world we would be at a disadvantage to be sure.

So do we have real strength or illusory strength?

[---]

Friedman also covers from his own geopolitical analyst's perspective the scope of overseas military engagements and the arenas in which and how war shall be waged in the 21st century from the perspective of US military vision. I would just further recommend it to you even if you found the previous extract to be nonsensically statistical.*shrugs*

[NickHedge]

It's not that it is "nonsensically statistical". I know what you are saying, but I disagree with you/him (both). I am sure that there will be a difference in how things are done militarily in the future, I have no doubt of this. But I just do not subscribe to the belief that America is #1 militarily and economically. I believe the country is in the very late beginnings of its own demise. You have a political power that is working to dismantle the country, the country is at the mercy of it's debt collectors and it is selling itself to the highest bidder. No one in business would agree that that is the way you maintain power and control. At some point the country must fall due to its own mishandling and shortsightedness.

You talk as if there is no other country in the world that can take power....or even a collection of countries for that matter.

What is not being discussed here (and really shouldn't be) is that there is also spiritual beliefs involved. Both you and I are of different belief systems so we are only going to be able to go so far in this discussion before it sounds as if we are talking in circles.

Suffice it to say we agree to disagree. We both have our reasons for why we believe the way we do and there is no one to say that either view point is right or wrong. It is what it is.

[---]

hang on a minute, Nick.

WTH do "spiritual beliefs" have to do with anything? It is a rhetorical question insofar as I really don't want to acknowledge such bait.

I have printed and recorded the RAW DATA as based on stats. As the OP posted a piece based on stats. If you do not believe the stats that is fine. that is your own analysis. I would have preferred to have been able to leave my last post in the thread at a simple repeated recommendation to actually read or listen to that book. have a nice day.

[NickHedge]

I wasn't trying to shut you down or bait you into another line of debate. That was clearly not my intention.

Yes, yeti posted a topic based on stats, no one is arguing that point. Yes, you made your point based on Friedman's analysis. I don't argue that. And I did take the time to download two of his books (looking for the third) and plan to read them. Just because I don't agree with something does not mean that I will not take the time to check it out. I'm not that myopic.

What I was trying to get across to you is that at this point in the debate I have come to a point where I feel in order to pursue the subject further I would have to either 1) agree with you, 2) give you some kind of hard data to strongly counter your information or 3) fall back to what I believe to be the truth spiritually. Those are the choices that I have before me.

You believe in what Friedman says. I say that he is wrong. I never said you were wrong. You have the freedom to entertain whatever information meets with your belief (secular) system. If that fits into what you believe to be true great. I don't subscribe to that theory. Should I be skewered over that?

If I wanted to bait the topic I would have done so from the very beginning. I have no issues here and I am surprised that you are as sensitive about this as you are. I have always considered you to be someone who has their feelings in check and does not get lost in the intensity of the discussion. I still respect you and your ideas. You bring an intelligent and balanced point of view to the table and you are a worthy adversary in the debate. I can't or won't say that about many here.

At the end of the day I consider it a privilege to have had this discussion with you (and Deathanyl).

[---]

I don't necessarily believe him, Nick. it's not that binary. You have more options than you think.
I just think his forecasts and cited statistics are worth investigating before dismissing as "wrong" or not. it's no problem.
For instance, from his analysis I should be another European assuring you that you are right and America is indeed about to topple.
To my mind, when contemporaneous critical analysis from an ex RAND company man such as Friedman's is factored in to some of the more vocalised lines of argument and theory found here it's adding a significant dimension to the overall piece.

[Deathaniel]

(04-29-2010 12:25 AM)NickHedge Wrote:  At the end of the day I consider it a privilege to have had this discussion with you (and Deathanyl).

thank ya thank ya

[---]

I have always considered you to be someone who has their feelings in check and does not get lost in the intensity of the discussion. I still respect you and your ideas.

don't be silly, Nick. no ones getting worked up here.