I want to know

[melina]

I think this time for me to clear my doubt.What is the relation between gold and dollar?

[NickHedge]

The most simple explanation there is is this:

When gold is trading and going higher the dollar will ALWAYS FALL. The higher gold goes the lower the dollar will drop. The lower gold drops the higher the dollar will rise.

That doesn't tell you what the true relationship is between the two but it does tell you how each affects the other.

Watch the market and you will see what I am talking about.

[FastTadpole]

NickHedge is pretty much right about gold except the market is rife with manipulation like with any other commodity but gold has a bubble built up by a physiological need so the value is ahead of the curve IMO. There is a indiscernible amount of tungsten on the market so be sure to factor that in.

Remember when the Saudis were convinced to buy gold by their "impartial" investment advisors, they bought it by the truckload. Then, almost overnight, gold made a steady drop. The oil price dropped coincidentally at the same time gold dropped, they were forced to sell their gold for ~20% of what they paid. Consequently their wealth was sucked away. Another example citing gold's volatility was when it was illegal in the US to own any gold and was repossessed by the state, don't think that cannot happen again.

There is always the risk of some elitist ploy of sitting on a giant vein of gold or maybe they have discovered a way to transmute elements in a cost effective manner. I really would put nothing past those schemers.

For a truly good and safe investment. Get self sustainable for the long term if you have some liquidity now. Sooner rather than later. Invest in hydroponic equipment, land with rich soil, build a well, get a good source of energy and, most importantly, live in a good community - build a solid group of friends. Don't depend on government / corporations for your essential needs as much as you can bear. Sustainable independence is real wealth. If you only have a few bucks to spread around I'd stock up on some basics like natural native seeds, peanut butter, honey and tools. Anything someone in Haiti wish they had right now is a good start. Some people, especially here, strongly advocate lead over gold as an investment. Useful staples are skyrocketing in price now but the non-essentials (like wide screen TVs) are crashing to rock bottom prices so you'll see those items at garage / barter sales in the future.

That's just my opinion though, consider all options before committing and never put all of your eggs in one basket.

[---]

(02-18-2010 07:07 PM)FastTadpole Wrote:  the non-essentials (like wide screen TVs) are crashing to rock bottom prices so you'll see those items at garage / barter sales in the future.

Cool!

[NickHedge]

Wide screen TV's aren't rock bottom at the local Walmart (where I live), they are still running $2,000 - $3,000 per TV. Even at the cheap Chinese stores like Big Lots, etc, they are spendy for the little ones they sell. $400 on up (for the little tiny ones).

On the subject of Gold, it is my understanding that China buys Gold by the truckload and it is China that manipulates the price most of the time. But who knows how reliable that info is since it is the MSM pushing that story. But I do know that foreign countries prefer doing business with Gold or Euros over the dollar. But that is pretty much common knowledge. It was the primary reason that Saddam Hussein was executed (or his body double). He was supposedly stirring up trouble by trying to move off the dollar and onto the euro to buy oil. I never really researched it beyond that point. But it made sense.

Anytime the elites want to outlaw Gold they can. You could wake up tomorrow and it could be illegal, which is what happened in the 30's.

I agree with self sustainability. But work as much alone as you can. My reasoning for this is because I believe when the time comes the man will go after all "known" survivalist camps. Primarily Utah, Nebraska, Montana, North Dakota, etc. Places that are popular for survivalists to congregate. It is this congregation that makes these people easy targets. I have always believed that a person can survive on their own better than with a group. When you have a group of people you have trouble. The chance of infiltration is greatly increased. My opinion only.

But I would not buy one scintilla of Gold right now because it is being pushed HARD. When I see something being pushed that hard I know what is coming down the road. But alot of people believe that Gold will save them when things get bad. Maybe, but I think it will do the opposite.

Only my opinion.

[FastTadpole]

Up here in Canada, inflation is setting in for day to day product needs at a much higher rate than the frilly items like TVs and lawn ornaments. China is hoarding, India is hoarding .. but the IMF is dumping gold.

As for the move out to communes deal, sure live off the land out in the boons if you want but you may be hunted down like jackrabbits like the Natives in every country around the world have historically. A stand can be made in shit hole cities just as well by planting crops on your front lawn and retro fitting sustainable energy. Cities are communizes too - at least they used to be. People can instill that spirit back with their neighbours if they put forth the effort.

I am working to reinvigorate and establish community hall gatherings to combat divide and conquer with good old fashioned grassroots unification tactics. I stated by talking to kids and randoms that walked into the local gas stations, the mall, the bus, medical waiting rooms and the libraries to drum up interest. If everyone just talked to eachother armed with the knowledge we have in daily life seeds will be planted and change will be a comin'. If you are really feeling ambitious, make up some flyers, get some local funding government and donation and establish a weekly social meeting at a church or hall. Each and every one of us can incite change by going door to door and talking to our neighbours to re-establish the forums that are the backbone of every community.

But I'm too busy... maybe later, some of us might be saying. Any work you do now will pay off tenfold for future generations we're past the century of self and it's time for some forward thinking people to step up to the plate. The generations have been procrastinating and those values are corrupting us and our children to a point where our community has eroded and been degraded to neighbourhood watch groups that rat their fellow man out for transgressions such as parking infractions and garbage can placement (I just got a $320 ticket to prove it) to the nanny state. The long term solution isn't isolating and hiding in the bushes with peanut butter patting yourself on the back for how insightful and prepared you were while the rest of society is crumbling and you haven't lifted a finger or were fooled into the notion that you were powerless to enact change.

Gold and paper are not wealth, they are manipulation tools and the sooner people realize that true richness is freeing yourself from oppressive systems and uniting with friends, community and family to build something, the better off all of us will be.

[Frozin]

(02-18-2010 12:20 PM)melina Wrote:  I think this time for me to clear my doubt.What is the relation between gold and dollar?

Absolutely nothing. "Dollar" as used on a Federal Reserve Note is not legally defined anywhere. A federal reserve note is nothing more then a debt instrument. It is worthless paper.


As the poster above stated, when gold rises the dollar falls, this is inflation, inflation is merely a hidden tax on goods.

"The abandonment of the gold standard made it possible for the welfare statists (government bureaucrats) to use the banking system as an unlimited expansion of credit. In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation... Deficit spending is simply a scheme for the "hidden" confiscation of wealth. Gold stands in the way of this insidious process." Alan Greenspan

[NickHedge]

I think the term you are referring to is "Fiat Money". It has nothing backing it. Back in the day the bank would give you paper equivalent to the amount of gold you had....or something like that. But once the gold standard was gone, so to was the balance and the system that held things in balance. Now money is printed helter skelter and it means nothing. THEY TELL YOU its worth something, but the elites can make anything valuable by saying it is. It's a game.

I agree FastTadpole that people need to be educated but people are going to do what people do best, screw up. I don't have faith in people because people continue doing what they have always done. If they come together for any reason it doesn't take long before turmoil sets in. It's cyclic.

The powers that be will go after the groups first. The easy pickings. The ones they need to make examples out of to keep the weaker ones in line. Once those people are out of the way then they will concentrate on the stragglers, the lone wolves, the true separatists. All one can do is learn how to fend for themselves and sustain themselves on next to nothing. It can be done. It isn't the preferred way to live and most people are quite spoiled and would balk at having to "live off the land". But time and necessity will determine otherwise.

[FastTadpole]

@NickHedge
I suppose we disagree on this one, I'll play the role of delusional optimist in your mind but I think the respect for eachothers' views are mutual.

Of course as individuals we all wish everyone saw the world through our eyes but the beauty of humanity is that there are so many eyes and perspectives. Common goals are a salvation and even the simplest of minds can be convinced when presented the choice of slavery vs freedom. It is only a matter of time before people understand and embrace this, likely after they lose nearly everything but they will learn. Once they (us) have their attention we have an opportunity to present a viable solution for the continuance of humanity. I like to think of it as a marketing project, and the so called 'elite' are working hard on their campaign. Most of us here know how they work, and I personally believe it is my (our) duty and responsibility given this power and knowledge to counteract their campaign of lies with truth and intelligent solutions to at least give humanity a viable opportunity to establish a system that serves them as opposed to the default 'do nothing' option of perpetual tyranny.

Getting back to gold, I noticed some underlying advocation of linking gold to back the monetary system.

I think there is too much faith in a gold backed currency as a final solution. This is partially due to the fact that a large contingent of the alt media push this because they are sponsored by gold dealers. Listen to the commercials and don't be swindled by this second layer. It's a trap or maybe some of these alt-media types are just in it for the money, they could be hijacked. Really who knows or cares about their motives, bottom line their information is compromised to a certain degree. They reveal enough of the truth to convince many that they finally have the wool pulled from over their eyes telling you to do your own research and find out for yourself. The thing is they direct your research to their hijacked sources. Try looking for information deeper than the first page of Google, this site is much better than that, but keep your filter on for the half-truthers.

A good example of this is the late Eustace Mullins' work being hijacked by Creature from Jekyll Island author G. Edward Griffin of the Rockefeller funded John Birch Society. G. Edward Griffin is a huge supporter of a return to the gold backed currency standard.

Gold is finite but it can be manipulated as a commodity. The market has been cornered before and it will be cornered again. The US was on the gold standard during the great depression. I am not willing to bet the future on a system propped up by who controls an element. You might say that a lot of people own gold now, maybe for awhile but for how long - you cannot eat gold but it is good for spending. The only people that can afford to sit on it are and always have been the ultra wealthy so eventually it will systematically flow to them. Once they have total control, if they don't have enough of the gold already, the banks can do what they please.

The dollar is dead one way or another so short term gold and silver will replace it as currency. That's the short of it, but longer term thinking denotes that as a trap to have us worship the metal as our god. A god (golden calf for you Catholics and Jews out there) that will ultimately fall under the so-called 'elite' persuasion.

By the act of abolishing fractional reserve banking, usury and the multitude of ways the systems have been gamed and defrauded (credit swaps, otc derivatives) would be enough to tighten up a lot of the faults of the system. A truly public bank would be a nice touch so interest would be paid to the citizens instead of the bankers. Ideally money would be printed as needed from a GDP formula of sorts based on value and not debt. For example, a bridge is built by the state/nation/community it is paid for by newly minted money a lot of this is common sense but it has been construed by the presenters and overcomplicated by law and banker speak. And yes - there would have accountability, transparency and some basic rules. Just as there would be if we were to use any currency system at all.

For now I prefer to barter when I can. It's bad enough that I (we) use money as much as we (I) do, it only re-asserts the illusion of power it has over us. So much to an extent people subject themselves to slavery, kill and die for paper and metal on an hourly basis. Currency, whatever it is constituted of, is what it is - a tool for facilitating exchange of goods and services. It was conceived to serve us not the other way around.

[NickHedge]

FastTadpole,

I will always gladly participate in the intelligent debate. It is by our civilized disagreement that the other people reading this will be the most served.

The reason I speak as I do about surviving by oneself is because I have already had to more or less. I speak from experience.

At one point (a few years back) I was working a job on the road in a city far from where I normally live. I was living out in the boondocks and it happened to be on a farm and the landlord (as I would later learn) was inclined to use his tenants as they would fall on hard times as "farm help". You worked off your rent, but got no money. My rent house was down off the road literally in the woods. I had the privilege of hunting since it was private property and my landlord hated all animals and was glad to see them all dead. So I was "encouraged" to hunt.

I was lucky in the sense that my dad had taught me well with firearms and I can hold my own.

Eventually what I had saved while I was working had gone to pay bills and keep things running until I got called back to work. Well, as fate would have it the waiting time out lasted the money. Eventually the power company shut off the power and April was just beginning in the South. Now I was faced with some serious issues. I couldn't go anywhere because I had no money for gas. I had no job. Was too far out in the boondocks to look for anything close by. I was stuck.

As fate would have it again, one of the other tenants that I had helped earlier the year before came by and asked if I wanted to work a few days because his regular help had laid out on him. It was landscaping work. I said sure.
4am til 1pm. I got paid in cash at the end of the week. Now I had a little money for my bills, enough to keep them from being turned over to collection. Plus since I paid my bills (bills back home) on time they worked with me when I told them my situation. Most people will take some money as opposed to none.

I had well water, an old grill and charcoal was cheap (which I could buy when I was working during the day). In order to shower, I took some wood laying around the farm and put together a three sided shower and used an old water heater tank that I painted flat black, filled it with water and connected a hose to the spigot. Let it sit in the sun during the day to heat the water. I had some connectors from another project I was working on and used some hoses and hooked it up. Crude shower, but it worked and I had adjustable hot water by 4pm.

As the days got warmer I learned to keep the house closed off during the early part of the day to keep the cool in as long as possible and later in the day as it got warmer, the house didn't get as bad until later. By then the porch was in the shade and it all worked out. I hunted alot of deer, turkey, rabbit and squirrel and was able to use my boss's freezer and shared 3/4' s of the meat with him. I smoked alot of it and did the best I could with no refrigeration. But if need be there was a creek less than 500-1000 feet away that I could have stored stuff in to keep cold.

Needless to say this went on until July and at that time the landlord decided that I wasn't working for him enough and he took me to court for non-payment of rent. He wanted me on call for him all the time. Due to some information that I was able to get at the library I was able to land another job 3 hours away. The company understood my situation and worked with me and I was able to sell some things I had to make the money to get there and stay until first pay check.

The moral of the story is that if I had been living in the city it would have not been do-able. I would have been forced to either go on the street or go to the shelter. I learned something that I have heard people talk about, sound off on, speculate on, etc. But I had to go through it first hand and I came out more confident and stronger on the other side. But I will admit that I would rather have gone it alone as to have had to worry about feeding and taking care of others. I do understand what homeless people mean when they say they want no part of the system. I can see their side.

Don't get me wrong, I had people stop by to see me and marvel at how I was doing, some saw the truth of it, some saw it as nothing more than white trash living that way, others decried it.....everyone had an opinion.

It is a lesson that I am proud and glad that I experienced. Would I do it again? Absolutely. To me I was living more honestly than I ever had and was able to see things from a much different perspective. When I emerged back into society I came back with different eyes and ears. I was different.

So, I know personally what I am capable of, but I also watched the people around me, (visitors and neighbors) who couldn't deal with it just by looking at it from the outside. It scared them. Too much reality. I know what I am talking about when I say there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth very soon. It will be ugly.

You can never know until you live an experience.

Just my two cents worth.

[FastTadpole]

Fuck yeah, that's the stuff life is about.

I'm a guy who lives in a city (Edmonton) with the largest urban forest in the world. I've camped rough in the winter (-20ish) without incident, and every other season too. I've worked tree farms, had a modest garden. That said I've been a city boy all my life but the line isn't that concrete for a lot of us. It's really neat how resourceful you can get out there in the bush, I think we all tend to underestimate ourselves a bit due to fear of the unknown. I've biked and x-country skied the Rocky Mountains - kinda had to I've never driven a car. Now granted I lived off canned goods and had water well access ready for me but I know where you're coming from buddy. I can fish but I've never fired anything more powerful than an air rifle. I've learned a lot from the torrents on this site (thanks to the uppers and seeders) though and hope to put some of that knowledge to use with my kids this summer on our next trek out from the electromagnetic sphere and into wild. Some of the folks here are on a totally different level of survival training, I'll get there someday. I feel a different kind of vibrancy out there and recommend the experience to everyone.

Society should be whatever you shape it to be and the smaller the community the easier it is to do this. I was envisioning self sufficient nodes of communities (including governmental, legal and monetary systems) in a decentralized context. I suppose it may be labelled as tribal but that invokes thoughts of something primitive. Technology is a double edged sword and to harness it sustainability you need two cups of wisdom for every one cup of development. I don't want to live in a world with manicured lawns and cookie cutter houses but some people do and they have every right to that. They deserve that choice just as much as some among us prefer to live off the land for a more traditional and ethereal life.

The trick is to balance the overall systems of society so it does not inhibit some styles of life and leverage some instances of society against another. The plundering of resources for example is highly leveraged through economies and imbalance in trade regions. The patent / copyright system needs an overhaul or abolishment to usher in the next stage of human development rather than to stunt the potential advancements of humanity.

A large part of our oppression is the fact it is inherent in a system that creates scarcities so that the gatekeepers of information and resources hold the reins of human development and the vast majority of them steer it in a way that benefits self interest and perhaps compromises with other factions of these gatekeepers.

Steering a bit more on topic - the 'elite' primarily use money or gold to control the 'serfs', military/police, resources and information without that power they cannot control government, without government they cannot enact laws. So power shifts back to the people to make their law to take back their shit that was stolen, build systems, build communities (or live alone) and build businesses to serve themselves. The key word I was shooting for was "build" just in case you missed it. Fighting is destructive, buying gold is just feeding the beast that owns most of it and is not producing anything other than gold miners and gold mining technology. The world is ours, history and the knowledge within is ours and it is being guarded by the hired gun. There wouldn't be too many military guys, international spies or beat down cops working for free.

Take out the money system and the house of cards falls. Just be sure you have a suitable replacement and/or a common understanding among people or you will have a chaotic anarchy so awful that we'll be begging for the nanny state or its next incarnation back to suckle off of.

[NickHedge]

You know sometimes I wonder if the people are too far gone. I can't help but ask the question. I look around at people who consider themselves survivalists and in touch with what is going on. But when you really look at them they are buying the newest vehicles, taking the viagra, on the meds, drinking every night after work, wrapped up in sports and oblivious to the real situation at hand. They think that they can grab a little news here and there, glance at the paper and move on to their favorite TV show or sports event. I play games with them at work. When we are standing around on break or lunch and someone brings up something in the news I purposely start in about what is really going down and try to explain but they blow me off as a "CONSPIRACY NUT" or the newer label that is all over the MSM right now "WING NUT".

I see it in their eyes, they actually cannot handle it. They want the right to complain about it but retain their world. That is why I don't think these people will ever be able to come together enough to actually get anything real accomplished. Not yet. Everything will have to actually go down and the troops in the streets before they will get up off the couch and get serious. Even then I see alot of them bargaining with the powers that be in order to try and hold on to what they have. "I'll do whatever you say, just let me keep my truck, or my car, or my house or my money." I'll snitch for you, just don't take away my stuff, man". I see this happening.

People are still walking around in a fog. It will take something serious, much more serious than this to jar them awake. They still think they can vote in a decent person and that one person will make it all better. They still haven't learned. They don't want to face up to it. It's too much reality. I've actually had guys at work say THIS. What I hear alot is "Hey man, shut up, I don't want to go there". What do you do? Keep talking until they get mad enough to fight you? Or do you just consider them warned and move on?

After dealing with that I just think back and I smile, knowing that I can do it on my own and everyone can do their thing, whatever that may be. You can't force them to see, sometimes they need their own experience to wake up.

[arjelynmirador18]

(02-19-2010 09:30 AM)Frozin Wrote:  

(02-18-2010 12:20 PM)melina Wrote:  I think this time for me to clear my doubt.What is the relation between gold and dollar?

Absolutely nothing. "Dollar" as used on a Federal Reserve Note is not legally defined anywhere. A federal reserve note is nothing more then a debt instrument. It is worthless paper.


As the poster above stated, when gold rises the dollar falls, this is inflation, inflation is merely a hidden tax on goods.

"The abandonment of the gold standard made it possible for the welfare statists (government bureaucrats) to use the banking system as an unlimited expansion of credit. In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation... Deficit spending is simply a scheme for the "hidden" confiscation of wealth. Gold stands in the way of this insidious process." Alan Greenspan

I see, but can you explain why is the higher gold goes the lower the dollar will drop and the lower gold drops the higher the dollar will rise? :idea:Give me more information please about the banking system. Thanks a lot, i hope I will be given a chance to have more knowledge.

[NickHedge]

FastTadpole is the go to person on this I believe. I detest banking and the monetary system myself. However I do follow the rise and fall of the dollar and gold just to see what it is doing. Right now gold and the dollar are both rising, which is unusual. But I can't explain it. I leave things like this to the more educated posters. FastTadpole will be around to this and I believe will have information that will help you to understand.

[FastTadpole]

Eustace Mullins is the go to guy on this topic. I rarely advocate an individual and thrust them upon a pedestal but he fits the bill. Eustace spent 3 years speed reading (and living) at the library of congress and is the first and foremost expert on the federal reserve. The mother of all federal reserve books was his Secrets of the Federal Reserve. All other works about the system either cite, plagiarize or bastardize his works. He explores other areas as well, particularly law and goes into pharma too.

Search out the tracker and you'll find material-a-plenty from the late Eustace Mullins .. RIP.

http://concen.org/tracker/torrents-searc...d=1&lang=0