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sirius57 · 02-12-2007, 06:16 PM

What is it about the collapse of distinctions between Zionism and Judaism? I understand Zionism to be a political movement and Judaism to be a religion. There are Jews who are against Zionism and there are Christians who are Zionists (Witness Evangelical "Christians" fawning over Israel). I think it does a disservice to intelligent, and therefore powerful, discourse to collapse these distinctions.

mothandrust · 02-12-2007, 08:40 PM

they are both labels, and as such imperfect, amorphous generalisations that change through time - Einstein called himself a Zionist

He also said, "the significant problems we face can never be solved at the level of thinking that created them".

MC David · 02-12-2007, 08:46 PM

Quote:they are both labels, and as such imperfect, amorphous generalisations that change through time - Einstein called himself a Zionist

He also said, "the significant problems we face can never be solved at the level of thinking that created them".

Funny you bring that up, it's true look at reggae music & the rastafarian ideology they talk about Zion all the time but believe it's Ethiopia & don't advocate killing anyone.

mothandrust · 02-12-2007, 09:19 PM

Quote:Funny you bring that up, it's true look at reggae music & the rastafarian ideology they talk about Zion all the time but believe it's Ethiopia & don't advocate killing anyone.

yeah - perhaps Marley would have called himself a Zionist

perhaps we should all call ourselves Zionists, to dilute the racist ignorant poison it has become

Weyland · 02-12-2007, 09:44 PM

Quote:
Quote:Funny you bring that up, it's true look at reggae music & the rastafarian ideology they talk about Zion all the time but believe it's Ethiopia & don't advocate killing anyone.

yeah - perhaps Marley would have called himself a Zionist

perhaps we should all call ourselves Zionists, to dilute the racist ignorant poison it has become

I dont think soo, unless you are coming from a Matrix movie perspective.

mothandrust · 02-12-2007, 10:13 PM

Quote:I dont think soo, unless you are coming from a Matrix movie perspective.

i come only from my own perspective - i was just playing with thoughts, hoping for feedback.

Really i hate all labels, which was my original point (just got sidetracked (as usual)).

Just wanted to highlight the irony/discrepancy/incompatibility of Einstein with what most people perceive Zionism to be.

Weyland · 02-12-2007, 10:33 PM

Quote:
Quote:I dont think soo, unless you are coming from a Matrix movie perspective.

i come only from my own perspective - i was just playing with thoughts, hoping for feedback.

Really i hate all labels, which was my original point (just got sidetracked (as usual)).

Just wanted to highlight the irony/discrepancy/incompatibility of Einstein with what most people perceive Zionism to be.

Just thought it was interesting that you use THE CHE as an avatar. Did you know that he was an evil fucking cold blooded killer? Since you want feedback?

~~byrd~~ · 02-12-2007, 10:36 PM

Marley was talking about Mount Zion. different from Zionism. different idea.

mothandrust · 02-12-2007, 11:53 PM

Quote:Marley was talking about Mount Zion. different from Zionism. different idea.

personally i think Marley sees Zion as a symbol, a metaphor. i bow to your knowledge on the technicalities

~~byrd~~ · 02-13-2007, 12:14 AM

well of course that very well may be too. i wasnt implying that i know what he meant, rather that i know he was not referring to political zionism. hence, mount zion, or as you said, a symbol or a metaphor. sure.
my point was that when we hear Marley say anything Zion, it is coming from something other than the idea of political zionism.

i will now bow to your mmmmdickness

:wink:

Weyland · 02-13-2007, 12:28 AM

Actually the Rastas refer to Africa as Zion!

mothandrust · 02-13-2007, 12:46 AM

Quote:Just thought it was interesting that you use THE CHE as an avatar. Did you know that he was an evil fucking cold blooded killer? Since you want feedback?

Thanks for the feedback. Killer i accept. Cold blooded, in terms of ruthless, rather than shark, yes, also. Evil is a notion i do not accept. It is a value judgment and we must all find our personal truths.

If you want to know about the man and his humanity read 'the motorcycle diaries' (don't watch the film).

is it evil to be prepared to die for one's beliefs? Che is there as my avatar, as a symbol of aspiration, and as a reminder (and because i suspect most would not recognise Jean-Jacques Rousseau)

Big hugs,

jj

mothandrust · 02-13-2007, 01:02 AM

Quote:well of course that very well may be too. i wasnt implying that i know what he meant, rather that i know he was not referring to political zionism. hence, mount zion, or as you said, a symbol or a metaphor. sure.
my point was that when we hear Marley say anything Zion, it is coming from something other than the idea of political zionism.

i will now bow to your mmmmdickness

:wink:

Byrd, accepted, think i was just being picky, perhaps even misreading you. i have a bit of a problem with language sometimes.

and what's 'mmmmdickness' mean? is it some Americanism? or am i just being a bit dense?

~~byrd~~ · 02-13-2007, 01:50 AM

that was me being silly. im from Canada. thats how we do's

:grin:

Weyland · 02-13-2007, 05:45 AM

Quote:
Quote:Just thought it was interesting that you use THE CHE as an avatar. Did you know that he was an evil fucking cold blooded killer? Since you want feedback?

Thanks for the feedback. Killer i accept. Cold blooded, in terms of ruthless, rather than shark, yes, also. Evil is a notion i do not accept. It is a value judgment and we must all find our personal truths.

If you want to know about the man and his humanity read 'the motorcycle diaries' (don't watch the film).

is it evil to be prepared to die for one's beliefs? Che is there as my avatar, as a symbol of aspiration, and as a reminder (and because i suspect most would not recognise Jean-Jacques Rousseau)

Big hugs,

jj

Nope, but it is EVIL as fucking hell to coldly kill people for your own beliefs.