Military experiments on civilians?

[JazzRoc]

icewhale:

And answer came there none... ...once again Jazzroc sidesteps the awkward fact that he got caught out telling half-truths.
The title of this thread "Military experiments on civilians?" is followed by a video about strange goo falling on a town. Nothing about a "military experiment", and, of course towns are populated by civilians. So there is no logical reason for either the title or the the video. Is that a TRUTH at all?
I followed the video. Goo falling on a town. Now I've seen goos fall on towns many times myself over sixty years. It's a natural process of unknown origin. Although I DID suggest a plausible origin.
As for you, you are working in the style of William Thomas or Clifford Carnicom. That is, abysmal, and very objectionable. It speaks ill of your propositions. And they speak ill of you.

Porton's extensive public area BW field trials were done for many reasons, not just to simply see 'how the material dispersed'
So name them, and give your reasons. Let's see what they are and if they're worth consideration.

repeatedly expose the population of England and Wales to material which they knew was hazardous
So give your reasons for this statement. Let's see what they are and if they're worth consideration.

Sometimes they conducted 'massive crosswind line-releases' of live bacteria over populated areas
So name them, and list the bacteria, concentrations, and locations. Let's see what they are and if they're worth consideration.

On occasion they conducted 'offensive' orientated BW research in public areas, such as: The Westwood Trials, The Railway Coach Trials, the Lyme Bay 'S3' Trials in which bacteria were coated with a protective substance, to enable the survivability of bacterial aerosols sprayed in daylight.
Well, that seems as though they must have started in a viable state. List the bacteria, concentrations, and stand-off ranges. Let's see what they are and if they're worth consideration.

Some, not all, test subjects were so-called 'volunteers'. Porton never gave them any such title - CDEE used the term 'observers'. 'Volunteers' only became used as a term when doubts surfaced in the media, about the ethics of using National Service personnel as test subjects in some very dodgy human experiments.
You'd better tell me what the experiments were or are. Offhand I'd say that conducting clandestine experiments on National Service personnel is very immoral.

even as late as the mid-sixties servicemen were being 'officially spiked' with acid with no prior informed consent.
Were these experiments the responsibility of the same people? Once more I need info from you on this.

While its true to say that the general public were not the target of Porton Down's public area BW field trials, the MOD must have possessed a large amount of feeble minds themselves, not to have considered that their BW experiments might cause adverse health effects among those exposed to Porton's massive chemical/biological aerosols. After all these weren't just aerosols of 'wild' bacteria - these were massive aerosols of bacteria which had been specially produced by Porton to be of a size which would by-pass the body's natural defences.
If this is your "milling" spiel you can drop it right now. Or do I have to tell you (once again) that if you TRULY mill a granular bacterial cake down to BELOW spore dimensions you will DEFINITELY KILL THE BACTERIUM.
It is OBVIOUS (except to you) that milling speeded up the creation of of sprayable bacterial EMULSION.
If you REALLY wanted a SMALLER bacterium you would have to CHANGE the bacterium.

Personally, I find it quite understandable that confusion exists as to the 'targets' of these tests, given Porton's extremely close collaboration with their Tripartite/Quadripartite partner, the USA - who possess a very unethical past history of human experimentation. Some feel that as we're British, we would never conduct any experiments such as those previously committed by the USA. Unfortunately, they seem to either forget, or are unaware of, the fact that as members of the respective Tripartite/Quadripartite Agreements, Porton Down is quite prepared to use research gathered by the USA's unethical human experimentation. In fact I was informed by a member of Operation ANTLER, that he had evidence that the USA had, in the past, conducted human experimentation for Porton Down. Which, of course enables MOD/Porton Down apologists to legitimately claim that the UK never did any similar unethical human experimentation Porton Down ('cos they get someone else to actually conduct them, or do them outside of the UK).
There's not much justification for that except in the light of the Cold War situation, which I believe no longer applies today.

You may disbelieve the intensity of the Cold War if you wish.

You obviously are unaware that dozens of atom bombs were flying through the skies CONTINUALLY for fifteen years, awaiting recall from their homebases or "GO" from the President of the USA.

http://www.flvz.com/watch_video/86133/Dr_S...e_the_Bomb_1964

I don't like your treatment of this serious subject. But I do admire your acquisition of a vast amount of important data. I hope it was not just as a consequence of your paranoia.

[metal-gear-solid]

Quote:from one of the quotes chosen for that report it would appear that this goo's effect was to make people ill for months.

JR, is it that you are suggesting that fecal matter disposed of from an airliner could relatively easily be transformed in the upper atmosphere to become something so offensive to the human system, that it could cause an illness that lingered strongly for upto eight weeks?
Blue dye aside.
Surely, if being shat upon by an airplane could manifest from the sky as a goo which makes you really ill there'd be more talk of it;there are so many airliners, after all.
Maybe it's kept quiet by the aviation authorities and it isn't contemporary military germ warfare experimentation upon the populaces at all. lol That just seems slightly incredible though. Rare instance as it seems to be,aside.
From the presented news media reportage..it occurs that it was a particularly noxious goo that fell from the sky on that occasion. You're writing it off as fecal matter from an airliner or anything but a military experiment. What about the club of rome?

I went to India, and on the first day of eating the food I was sick. I pooed seven times a day for two months straight. So yeah eating poo can make you that sick. So nothing to see here. If it was military experiment you can bet that it would have remained a secret still.

[icewhale]

Quote:icewhale:

And answer came there none... ...once again Jazzroc sidesteps the awkward fact that he got caught out telling half-truths.
...
As for you, you are working in the style of William Thomas or Clifford Carnicom. That is, abysmal, and very objectionable. It speaks ill of your propositions. And they speak ill of you.[/b]

And you, old son, are pontificating at will about a series of experiments of which, as your posts indicate, you know very little. A dangerous combination. :rolleyes:

C'mon Jazzroc, we've been over all of this before - your memory can't really be as bad as you make out, can it? Or have you been taken over by a bilious troll?

Before we go any further, how about you first clarify a few of your previous statements, 'cos we have been waiting a while now only for you to conveniently ignore them upon return.

Remember this beauty? B)

Quote:"In Britain (I know nothing about the States), what they did was conduct a whole series of tests using i) water ii) marker dye iii) KILLED bacteria of a specific strain which could be identified later by attachment to a radioactively-labelled antibody."

How about you provide a source for that bunch of half-truths?

And why did you conveniently 'forget' to mention that the vast majority of public area bacterial trials used LIVE bacteria?

As for RAST: well, if you knew anything about these field trials you would know that although early development work was undertaken during a limited number of very short-range field trials (in which it was used to detect KILLED K. aerogenes), it was used only as a small supplementary identification during the main Lyme Bay Trials - where it was used for the identification of LIVE bacteria (E.coli MRE 162).
[source - MRE Field Trial Report No 3; MRE Field Trial Report No. 4]

Quote:

Quote:1. A very hazardous Cadmium compound (Zinc Cadmium sulphide) - the public were sometimes exposed to this BW simulant by an extremely close range mobile source;

It wasn't known to have those properties when it was used.

Well I can provide at least two sources that prove otherwise - in fact I've already posted a reference to one source. [L. Arthur Spomer, "Fluorescent Particle Atmospheric Tracer: Toxicity Hazard" - Atmospheric Environment 7 (1973)]

How about you? B)

Care to give us some proof of why you think Cadmium compounds weren't 'known to have those properties' during the period in which Porton conducted their ZnCds field trials. :rolleyes:

Seriously Jazzroc, I am very interested to learn which material has led you so badly up the garden path. So I'd be very grateful if you could manage for once to try to be civil, and actually provide answers to my previous posts which aren't based on ill founded opinion, but verifiable facts.




icewhale

[JazzRoc]

icewhale:

And you, old son, are pontificating at will about a series of experiments of which, as your posts indicate, you know very little. A dangerous combination.
You are the source of all this information. It's our interpretations of your information that differ. Considering your style, I have decided to accept the danger.

your memory can't really be as bad as you make out, can it? Or have you been taken over by a bilious troll?
It's not what it was. Hooray for old age. Your style would bring out my bile no matter what age I was.

How about you provide a source for that bunch of half-truths?
You.

And why did you conveniently 'forget' to mention that the vast majority of public area bacterial trials used LIVE bacteria?
I didn't spot that ratio (live to killed) in your list. The above-mentioned danger!

As for RAST: well, if you knew anything about these field trials you would know that although early development work was undertaken during a limited number of very short-range field trials (in which it was used to detect KILLED K. aerogenes), it was used only as a small supplementary identification during the main Lyme Bay Trials - where it was used for the identification of LIVE bacteria (E.coli MRE 162).
[source - MRE Field Trial Report No 3; MRE Field Trial Report No. 4]
I only know what remains in my memory of whatever you posted in the distant past that I actually read (of which I have no record on my computer). That is why I have asked you questions which you don't appear to be answering. The above-mentioned danger!:LOL:

Care to give us some proof of why you think Cadmium compounds weren't 'known to have those properties' during the period in which Porton conducted their ZnCds field trials?
Throughout my stay at the NGTE (beginning 1962) all steel components were CADMIUM plated for corrosion resistance. The change to ZINC PLATE AND PASSIVATE took place in the seventies.
WHEN did these trials begin, exactly?:)

Seriously Jazzroc, I am very interested to learn which material has led you so badly up the garden path.
As I have said. YOURS.

So I'd be very grateful if you could manage for once to try to be civil, and actually provide answers to my previous posts which aren't based on ill founded opinion, but verifiable facts.
I depart from civility just as soon as someone calls me a liar. I see you have noticed this. I hope you take the hint.

Yours are the "facts" (if you are going to supply them).

It's your interpretation of your "facts" that I take issue with. Just as I do with Thomas's and Carnicom's interpretations of their "facts".

And this discussion bears no relevance to the GOO in the video. But I have wanted this argument with you - so...

[---]

Quote:

Quote:from one of the quotes chosen for that report it would appear that this goo's effect was to make people ill for months.

JR, is it that you are suggesting that fecal matter disposed of from an airliner could relatively easily be transformed in the upper atmosphere to become something so offensive to the human system, that it could cause an illness that lingered strongly for upto eight weeks?
Blue dye aside.
Surely, if being shat upon by an airplane could manifest from the sky as a goo which makes you really ill there'd be more talk of it;there are so many airliners, after all.
Maybe it's kept quiet by the aviation authorities and it isn't contemporary military germ warfare experimentation upon the populaces at all. lol That just seems slightly incredible though. Rare instance as it seems to be,aside.
From the presented news media reportage..it occurs that it was a particularly noxious goo that fell from the sky on that occasion. You're writing it off as fecal matter from an airliner or anything but a military experiment. What about the club of rome?

I went to India, and on the first day of eating the food I was sick. I pooed seven times a day for two months straight. So yeah eating poo can make you that sick. So nothing to see here. If it was military experiment you can bet that it would have remained a secret still.

LOL I also had the exact same experience in india. Had the shits so bad from right up north where the monsoon had just broken all the way down to the south. the tibetan medicine..which looked like rabbit poo..helped some but it was only when I sussed to drink flat coke with a bit of salt that it properly began dissipating.

Absolutely horrifying to begin with .. your body teaches you some humilty. and had to more cheap india clothes a few times. ugh. didnt go out much that week almost two. in one end out the other in moments. just constant convulsive shitting reflexes and vomiting. not good. ooh, don't mention the flu's season.

A local woman with half a functioning brain served a meal to her family to which I had been invited..she did the cooking.. it was spiked so horrendously with salt that I needed water much water even after 1 mouthful. I couldn't eveneat more than 2. the water was just rainwater she'd collected even though she'd poured it out of a plastic bottle:rolleyes:they were pretty poor. I got violently sick as did other people who drank it, including her and an old man in her family.

However, such dysentary isn't not soo uncommon in India and esp. at the monsoon season too. I lost wieight and used western meds too, to get it out of my system

To write this incident - the thread's topic- forcefully as logically and clearly,obviously a freak case of airplane dumped faeces transforming into a fiercely hazardous and noxious film like mist in the upper atmosphere which then descends coats a whole town?

How long does it actually take a load of crap to fall to earth from a commercial airliner anyhow?? Is is liquified before becoming ejecta? or do turds float in airspace?

And you're writing off the possibilty of illicit military testing in this case as flimsy and not worthy of attention is it? Hmm, I thought it was one of the stronger 'cases of reported phenomena' which would perfectly fit the bill like Occam was in the house considering the wider context of the world we are living in under the agendas of the anglo american block interest, so to speak. They don't exactly have a history of liking people very much when you pause to think about it. *shrugs* JMO

[---]

Quote:Whatever that means.

it's meant there's something definitely secret society oriented in the whole affair, irrespective of the point of it as a time you lived through personally, than you are for some reason ever willing to give the slightest creedence to. I was just making a quick post on it simply with images from two apparently completenly unaligned groups that share/d extremely similar symbolic geometry in their banners...clearly it is something in nothing and there's nothing of interest therein.

[JazzRoc]

Pripyat:

To write this incident - the thread's topic- forcefully as logically and clearly, obviously a freak case of airplane dumped faeces transforming into a fiercely hazardous and noxious film like mist in the upper atmosphere which then descends coats a whole town?
It's not the only recorded case of GOO. What if it IS a natural case and there are many more of them UNrecorded? I only suggested a possible vector. In a huge world with millions of lifeforms and zillions of scenarios the extremely improbable may well become possible. What about raining fish and frogs?

How long does it actually take a load of crap to fall to earth from a commercial airliner anyhow?? Is is liquified before becoming ejecta? or do turds float in airspace?
Solid lumps will fall to earth. The remaining emulsion will not. It will either be maintained aloft within clouds, or be dried out, but then go on to possibly nucleate raindrops and re-enter a cloud process again. And fall to earth. It certainly doesn't VANISH. Nor does the water in a "dissipating" vapor trail. It is still THERE.
Say that very local to the town there was a pond or lake, and a waterspout picked up a mixture of amoebae and frogspawn, whizzed it up a bit - and dumped it on the town. Wouldn't THAT produce the same results? Namely all the tinhats come out of the woodwork.... :)

And you're writing off the possibilty of illicit military testing in this case as flimsy and not worthy of attention is it? Hmm, I thought it was one of the stronger 'cases of reported phenomena' which would perfectly fit the bill like Occam was in the house considering the wider context of the world we are living in under the agendas of the anglo american block interest, so to speak. They don't exactly have a history of liking people very much when you pause to think about it.
*shrugs* JMO.
It only "fits" a paranoid tendency. There was no concurrence with trouble in the military ranks like a whistleblower with info, for instance. Military exercises and rough weather out to sea, as I recall.

it's meant there's something definitely secret society oriented in the whole affair, irrespective of the point of it as a time you lived through personally, than you are for some reason ever willing to give the slightest credence to.
I bore that in mind. Perhaps these days they are "militarizing" fish and frogs...

I was just making a quick post on it simply with images from two apparently completenly unaligned groups that shared extremely similar symbolic geometry in their banners...clearly it is something in nothing and there's nothing of interest therein.
I get your point. Gone forever are the innocent uses of the eye, a pair of dividers, a pyramid, and directionally-rotational symbols like swastikas. What a blow to Art!

"In GOD we trust"... (spits)

[icewhale]

Quote:

Quote:icewhale:


How about you provide a source for that bunch of half-truths?

You.

I suppose I should at least be grateful that you actually own up to posting half-truths, but to attempt to pass the blame for your misinterpretation of the facts on to me is a tad contemptible; especially when you’re normally among the first to accuse others of sloppy research. ;)

Quote:

Quote:And why did you conveniently 'forget' to mention that the vast majority of public area bacterial trials used LIVE
bacteria?

I didn't spot that ratio (live to killed) in your list. The above-mentioned danger!

You not only didn’t spot the ratio – you somehow overlooked the fact that LIVE bacteria were sprayed at all! :rolleyes::rolleyes:

According to your following post (which I’m still waiting for you to explain):

Quote:In Britain (I know nothing about the States), what they did was conduct a whole series of tests using the only materials sprayed were “i) water ii) marker dye iii) KILLED bacteria of a specific strain which could be identified later by attachment to a radioactively-labelled antibody.”
ONLY A FOOL would construe that as "hurting their own population".

Are you REALLY THAT FOOL?

Inexplicably, you make no mention of the fact that Porton Down repeatedly released massive amounts of two types of LIVE bacteria - E.coli MRE162 (EC), and Bacillus subtilis (aka Bacillus globigii aka BG) – over populated areas. Live bacteria which may have caused adverse health effects (pneumonias, sepsis, etc.) to susceptible members of the general public.

Obviously, Porton Down scientists never set out to harm anyone during these public area BW field trials. But, given the fact that Porton only conducted very limited pre-trial toxicity tests on the E.coli MRE162, and never conducted any toxicity tests on the Bacillus globigii, prior to its dissemination in public, its not so foolish to speculate whether Porton’s lack of rigorous safety standards led to some members of the general public to suffer harm.

Especially when one learns that on more than one occasion, MRE Porton Down scientists knowingly disseminated, over populated areas, massive amounts of a bacterial suspension (EC and BG) which was contaminated by an unknown bacteria. [Source: MRE Field Trial Report No 3 –Concentration, Viability and Immunological Properties of Airborne Bacteria Released From A Massive Line Release 1966,Table 5.1; Independent Review of the Possible Health Hazards of the Large-Scale Release of Bacteria During the Dorset Defence Trials – Prof. B. Spratt FRS 1999]

Quote:

Quote:Care to give us some proof of why you think Cadmium compounds weren't 'known to have those properties' during the period in which Porton conducted their ZnCds field trials?

Throughout my stay at the NGTE (beginning 1962) all steel components were CADMIUM plated for corrosion resistance. The change to ZINC PLATE AND PASSIVATE took place in the seventies.
WHEN did these trials begin, exactly?:)

So the answers no then; you don't have any proof; just an unverifiable claim?

What's more, that claim doesn’t really have a lot to do with the subject at hand though, does it, Jazzroc? :rolleyes:

Porton weren’t in the business of cadmium plating – they were involved in the large-scale spraying of cadmium compounds in public areas of England and Wales, sometimes at very close range to members of the public (less than 15 metres). [Source – Porton Note No 218 – The Change of Size Spectrum of Zinc Cadmium sulphide with increasing distance of travel; Porton Technical Paper No 885 – The estimation of vertical diffusion over medium distances of travel]

As I mentioned in a recent post (which you have apparently chosen to ignore), an internal MOD history, written in 2000 by the official Porton Down historian, Gradon Carter, has revealed that in 1955 CDEE Porton Down were informed by Leighton, the originator of the FP tracer technique, that Zinc Cadmium sulphide should be stored as a toxic material.

Strangely, athough CDEE Porton Down were advised at the time that ZnCds was potentially toxic, Carter informs us that CDEE Porton Down never even bothered to subject this material to any toxicity tests. He states:

“Essentially, there is no evidence that the toxicity of FP (Zinc Cadmium sulphide] was examined in any practical way by CDEE”.

Carter also discovered that no 'T' number had been allocated for FP [Zinc Cadmium sulphide]. He notes:

"The "T" number is a unique identifier for any compound submitted for toxicity testing at CBD* and its precursors. Its absence clearly suggests that FP was never formally submitted for such tests."

He also found it 'curious' that examination of the Porton Archive revealed "no earlier concern about any hazards to the general public from its airborne dissemination".

Quote:

Quote:So I'd be very grateful if you could manage for once to try to be civil, and actually provide answers to my previous posts which aren't based on ill founded opinion, but verifiable facts.

I depart from civility just as soon as someone calls me a liar. I see you have noticed this. I hope you take the hint.

I advise you get your facts right before you make accusations. I never called you a liar, Jazzroc. :angry:

I said you posted half-truths, which you had.

Your original post which mentioned that the "<span style="color:#0000FF">only materials sprayed were “i) water ii) marker dye iii) KILLED bacteria of a specific strain which could be identified later by attachment to a radioactively-labelled antibody.”

That is a half-truth. :icon_rolleyes:

As I mentioned before, you (somewhat conveniently) omitted to mention the fact that at least three types of LIVE bacteria were also disseminated during the MOD’s public area BW field trials. Which is curious as your alleged source (presumably (Chemtrails: List of UK Biological Warfare Tests Conducted In Populated Areas: 1949-1976) indicates this fact.

Quote:I only know what remains in my memory of whatever you posted in the distant past that I actually read (of which I have no record on my computer). That is why I have asked you questions which you don't appear to be answering. The above-mentioned danger!:LOL:

Patience Jazzroc, patience. I want to set straight your inaccuracies and be sure that you understand the basics, before we move on to the more detailed stuff. ;)

You also mention that you take issue with my interpretation of the "facts" (even though you appear to have never studied the scientific reports), and then try to link, by insinuation, my research to that of Carnicom.

Whereas it is becoming pretty obvious to most that you should be more concerned with your own [mis]interpretation of the facts, and your apparent inability to comprehend a simple (albeit crude) list.





icewhale

[---]

Remarkable post. Icewhale you are like a cat with a ball of wool. :D

[---]

Quote:Pripyat:

To write this incident - the thread's topic- forcefully as logically and clearly, obviously a freak case of airplane dumped faeces transforming into a fiercely hazardous and noxious film like mist in the upper atmosphere which then descends coats a whole town?
It's not the only recorded case of GOO. What if it IS a natural case and there are many more of them UNrecorded? I only suggested a possible vector. In a huge world with millions of lifeforms and zillions of scenarios the extremely improbable may well become possible. What about raining fish and frogs?

My INITIAL point was that if this was a natural case - then, taking into account the massive increase in air travel over the last 20 years there might reasonably BE AT LEAST ONE OTHER RECORDED INCIDENCE OF THIS PHENOMENA:

This was THE VERY FIRST THING I SAID which was brushed off...and it is BORING to have to repeat it again now that you have come full circle.

Quote:How long does it actually take a load of crap to fall to earth from a commercial airliner anyhow?? Is is liquified before becoming ejecta? or do turds float in airspace?
Solid lumps will fall to earth. The remaining emulsion will not. It will either be maintained aloft within clouds, or be dried out, but then go on to possibly nucleate raindrops and re-enter a cloud process again. And fall to earth. It certainly doesn't VANISH. Nor does the water in a "dissipating" vapor trail. It is still THERE.
Say that very local to the town there was a pond or lake, and a waterspout picked up a mixture of amoebae and frogspawn, whizzed it up a bit - and dumped it on the town.<span style="color:#FF0000"> Wouldn't THAT produce the same results? Namely all the tinhats come out of the woodwork.... :)

:drunk:

Quote:And you're writing off the possibilty of illicit military testing in this case as flimsy and not worthy of attention is it? Hmm, I thought it was one of the stronger 'cases of reported phenomena' which would perfectly fit the bill like Occam was in the house considering the wider context of the world we are living in under the agendas of the anglo american block interest, so to speak. They don't exactly have a history of liking people very much when you pause to think about it.
*shrugs* JMO.
It only "fits" a paranoid tendency. There was no concurrence with trouble in the military ranks like a whistleblower with info, for instance. Military exercises and rough weather out to sea, as I recall.

With allegedly intelligent people resort to citing phenomena of raining fish and frogs or anything BUT that the military are actually murderously corrupt corporate muscle .. then it becomes somewhat less surprising that we aren't besieged by whistleblowers probably risking their lives for such chicken coup thinkers.

Quote:it's meant there's something definitely secret society oriented in the whole affair, irrespective of the point of it as a time you lived through personally, than you are for some reason ever willing to give the slightest credence to.
I bore that in mind. Perhaps these days they are "militarizing" fish and frogs...

I was just making a quick post on it simply with images from two apparently completenly unaligned groups that shared extremely similar symbolic geometry in their banners...clearly it is something in nothing and there's nothing of interest therein.
I get your point. Gone forever are the innocent uses of the eye, a pair of dividers, a pyramid, and directionally-rotational symbols like swastikas. What a blow to Art!

"In GOD we trust"... (spits)

Go lay an egg, Jazz. Indeed, you are right. There is no import in symbols, they are just decorative shapes and don't act as network signifiers at all.

[JazzRoc]

icewhale:

its not so foolish to speculate whether Porton's lack of rigorous safety standards led to some members of the general public to suffer harm.

Yes it is. Totally foolish. But speculate away. Has it led to some members suffering harm? You don't know?
Nor do I. Now what to do? Rant on about whether I think you called me a liar? Well I don't care if you did or didn't. Consider it so if you like.
I DO think you ARE a particular kind of liar, and I don't like what you do.
You remind me of Alex Jones, William Thomas, and a few others. You are merely a rabble-rouser, as they are. You use information as they do, merely for the purpose of self-aggrandization.
You are the possessor of ALL the information we have been talking about here. Would I bother to pick it up for a moment? No, because most all of the event's over. The only thing motivating me to communicate with you is your wilful and malevolent interpretation which is keen to characterize the MOD as bad - and you as good.
But after the information, we must make the interpretation. That's where you have to square the circle of guiding your unwitting onlookers down your particular path. The path of tarring several generations, apparently, with a single brush. Your interpretation lets you down, but maybe you'll get away with it if you move on...

YOU don't think WW2 was some sort of big deal? You don't think that Josef was going to pre-emptively whack us? Think again. The only thing that stopped him was the absolutely pre-prepared nature of his enemy. Now that really dangerous bastard's gone (and much of his war machine) we're faced by - you? Not exactly a big threat, but your lies "MOD sprayed whole of UK with toxins and bacteria" could lead to riots, and people could be killed.

You might have a case if thousands had turned up ill. Well, it seems they didn't, and the MOD was right in its assessment that their program had an acceptable risk. What's the story? The MOD investigated the consequences of non-nuclear warfare, and nobody got ill. And there WASN'T a war with the USSR...

Do I support what the UK did at the time? I certainly do, for they had to formulate a viable defence policy. If there were risks involved then I'm sure that what went on was more than what you think went on in respect of considering the possible harm done to unwittingly-exposed populations. Because I have seen how you think.

There's NO way I'm bothering to go into dilution factors or the relative dangers of bacteria with you. You can go find your education elsewhere. Remember to wash your hands of the harm that you may do. You make fundamental mistakes in your reasoning I would be stupid to attempt to train out of you, but (heads-up) grinding bacteria does not make them smaller - it just kills them.

Grinding bacteria - that's you to a T.

[icewhale]

Quote:Remarkable post. Icewhale you are like a cat with a ball of wool. :D

Do Trolls produce wool? :D

It would appear so, but unfortunately stained with bile. ;)





icewhale

[---]

Quote:The only thing motivating me to communicate with you is your wilful and malevolent interpretation which is keen to characterize the MOD as bad - and you as good.

A thoughtful counter, for sure.. but the premise behind your sole motivation is flawed..in my humble opinion icewhale does not attempt to overtly portray their self as 'good' even if the they candidly say their vow is to take the MOD to task for what they feel was/is evidence of flagrant disregard for public safety...extending to the malign allegedly?

I can only think thereby you have said that you have no pertinent motivation to engage them...i do hope this is not true B)

maybe I missed a post or two in seeing why you would suggest such *shrugs*

[JazzRoc]

Priypjat:

A thoughtful counter, for sure... but the premise behind your sole motivation is flawed... in my humble opinion icewhale does not attempt to overtly portray himself as 'good' even if he candidly says his vow is to take the MOD to task for what he feels is evidence of flagrant disregard for public safety... extending to the malign allegedly?
It's obviously neither.
"Flagrant disregard" is WRONG from the Icewhale's own evidence. It shows them "paying regard" which is the exact opposite of "flagrant disregard".
"Malign" is something else entirely.
It vaguely implies that the research was merely a pretext for poisoning people. That is Icewhale's malignity right there. He has no evidence of anything of the sort. It is ONLY self aggrandisement (or some as-yet-unrevealed passion) that motivates him.

I can only think thereby you have said that you have no pertinent motivation to engage them... i do hope this is not true.
I can only tell you that I detested and despised the MOD while I worked for them. Later in my career I met crooks, but Ministry people were of an era characterized by H. G. Wells. They really hated me. It wasn't hard to tell.
But they're all DEAD, Nik. The Cold War exists like the Berlin Wall.

maybe I missed a post or two in seeing why you would suggest such *shrugs".
The period of the fifties will be forever remembered as the Dirty War, when protagonists on both sides of the Iron Curtain released a flurry of biological materials and toxins upon one another.
The War was brought to a halt by desperate intercessions from the Latin countries, India, and China, but not before mortality had exceeded 50%. Volunteers from Africa and Australia joined these countries to help with the administration of food aid and help restart essential industries.

That of course didn't happen. These people (no matter what you think of them) were responsible for the difference between THAT scenario and the present one. Don't forget it, you lucky little useless eaters.

[JazzRoc]

icewhale:

Do Trolls produce wool?
Ask yourself. Or Carnicom. Or Thomas.

It would appear so, but unfortunately stained with bile
My digestion will improve with your power of interpretation.

As I am not optimistic about this I'll keep a store of antacids.