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Reason
03-29-2007, 05:00 AM
Post: #1
Reason
Quote:to be quite honest with you, i am not sure if what follows is complete bollocks or not - i'm not saying it's the truth and i'm not really sure if it makes any coherent sense at all. but any constructive criticism would be gratefully received


<div align='center'>Reason</div>

it stands to reason.

Everything has a reason, even if we cannot understand or perceive it.

Logic, science, mathematics, philosophy become reason. Offering reason for weather, seasons, growth, evolution – they explain our world and enable humanity to create ever more complex structures. History offers reason, in book and perception, undoubtedly misrepresented through ignorance and interests; but, beyond that, why such-and-such is in power, cannot be without reason – be it violence or fortune.

Society has reason. Man achieves nothing of significance on his own – cooperation lies at the heart of social development for a reason. Man, weakest and most delicate of nature's products, without cooperation would be at its mercy. Language develops for the same reason, and with it the very naming of reason, and the idea of purpose. The notion of to be. Reason is why we follow a leader, feed our family. Be it internal or external, be it fanciful or factual reason cannot be ignored. At the time we all find reasons for the things we do. That is not to deny, that upon reflection such reasons were perhaps misguided or excuses.

Prospective reasons are put forward for all things, for genetics, psychology, the universe (wars)... reason, not yet to be understood, but reason, potentially, to encompass and explain all.

From such a perspective, God and Reason become the same – the Being, the Doing, the Having – encompassing all. 'God's Will' has been invoked since God's invention, or at least verbalisation, as reason: for power, violence, wealth, and authority (and sinners must suffer through the same logic, reason). Who could deny such reasoning?

The Will of God! The reason of God, stretches through time, through Pharaohs, Pharisees, Popes and Princes up to and including (even without the requirement these days) modern day leaders, like Bush and Blair, as basis for their enthronement.

So, whether they kill a million people with bombs or neglect, or bugger their sacrificial children, by reason, it must be The Will of God. When they behave with ignorance and selfishness, without care or pity, for their own dastardly reasons, it must be, if God exists, through God's reason.

Yet, somehow, this does not seem right. All our prophets, as far as i can remember, without exception, preached humility, compassion, moderation... as their reason. Did something go wrong?

How can there be God if all we ever find is leaders who abuse power, line pockets, lie, cheat, steal, while others, their supposed flock, suffer and starve?

So, if there is God, an all knowing God, s/he must have a reason.

Was it really to govern us?

Or to teach us a lesson?

Vitam Impendere Vero
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03-29-2007, 06:23 AM
Post: #2
Reason
Ecclesiastes 3
A Time for Everything
1 There is a time for everything,
and a season for every activity under heaven:
2 a time to be born and a time to die,
a time to plant and a time to uproot,

3 a time to kill and a time to heal,
a time to tear down and a time to build,

4 a time to weep and a time to laugh,
a time to mourn and a time to dance,

5 a time to scatter stones and a time to gather them,
a time to embrace and a time to refrain,

6 a time to search and a time to give up,
a time to keep and a time to throw away,

7 a time to tear and a time to mend,
a time to be silent and a time to speak,

8 a time to love and a time to hate,
a time for war and a time for peace.

9 What does the worker gain from his toil? 10 I have seen the burden God has laid on men. 11 He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the hearts of men; yet they cannot fathom what God has done from beginning to end. 12 I know that there is nothing better for men than to be happy and do good while they live. 13 That everyone may eat and drink, and find satisfaction in all his toil—this is the gift of God. 14 I know that everything God does will endure forever; nothing can be added to it and nothing taken from it. God does it so that men will revere him.

15 Whatever is has already been,
and what will be has been before;
and God will call the past to account. [a]

16 And I saw something else under the sun:
In the place of judgment—wickedness was there,
in the place of justice—wickedness was there.

17 I thought in my heart,
"God will bring to judgment
both the righteous and the wicked,
for there will be a time for every activity,
a time for every deed."

18 I also thought, "As for men, God tests them so that they may see that they are like the animals. 19 Man's fate is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath [b] ; man has no advantage over the animal. Everything is meaningless. 20 All go to the same place; all come from dust, and to dust all return. 21 Who knows if the spirit of man rises upward and if the spirit of the animal [c] goes down into the earth?"

22 So I saw that there is nothing better for a man than to enjoy his work, because that is his lot. For who can bring him to see what will happen after him?

Its along the same line. It seems the Teacher was trying to warn us of what you have come up with in a dizzying sort of way.
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03-29-2007, 08:09 AM
Post: #3
Reason
Quote:the significant problems we face can never be solved
at the level of thinking that created them

You sir, are a Gnostic. And I salute you.
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03-29-2007, 08:40 AM
Post: #4
Reason
likewise!

&Spirituality is not a child play. My words will tear apart anyone who listens to them....&
&The search for reality is the most dangerous of all undertakings for it destroys the world in which you live.&

- Nisargadatta Maharaj
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03-29-2007, 01:05 PM
Post: #5
Reason
Quote:
Quote:Ecclesiastes 3
A Time for Everything
1 There is a time for everything...
...22 So I saw that there is nothing better for a man than to enjoy his work, because that is his lot. For who can bring him to see what will happen after him?
Its along the same line. It seems the Teacher was trying to warn us of what you have come up with in a dizzying sort of way.

yeah, i guess, sort of, in a more esoteric way.

i'm trying to rationalise, put across logical arguments for the way i perceive the world to be. as an observation rather than a warning - we've already had enough of those

thanks for the input

and to mifune and subgenius - was half expecting to get derision and abuse

Vitam Impendere Vero
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03-29-2007, 02:42 PM
Post: #6
Reason
Quote:
Quote:the significant problems we face can never be solved
at the level of thinking that created them

You sir, are a Gnostic. And I salute you.

thank you. that quote is actually from a Zionist (although these days i suspect he would want nothing to do with Zionism) Einstein

and pleased to see your quotes from Thoreau (strike the root is such a good web site) and Russell - 'sceptical essays' is one of my favourite books

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