The Sura 4:82 Challenge To All Muslims.
05-21-2007, 08:56 PM (This post was last modified: 05-21-2007 09:31 PM by aux.)
The Sura 4:82 Challenge To All Muslims.
Quote:The character Luke was written in long after that character was said to have lived and died and it was written in by the Romans. So they could say whatever they liked. Would you say Sherlock Holmes existed simply because somebody wrote a story about that character. ? Do you then also believe all those tales were real simply because some writer wrote the tale as if it was. Well it is simple fiction. The Romans were most deceitful.
“Whiles we are speaking of biblical statements we should stick to biblical statements and not get side tracked into conversations of what others yackle on ...”
Again, you’re whole (ill-informed) premise could be applied to Moses. Casting aspersions is easy, it means nothing here. You’re personal thoughts have no biblical authority or bearing on reality.
Quote:They used the personification of an Angel called Gabriel to promote the tale of Jesus and John the Baptist and Mad Muhammad did similar when he promoted himself believing also in that fabricated Angel Gabriel that he heard of from the Christians tales not realizing that those tales were writ to promote Jesus at a later time as being that long awaited Deuteronomy Prophet. The reason why that is a stupid mistake of religious ignorance on behalf of Muhammad was that he used the same Angel Gabriel to promote himself as being that Deuteronomy Prophet and stated that the words of the Koran came from that fabricated Angel Gabriel.
I don’t care about the Satanic hoax known as Islam in this discussion. But you seem to suggest the whole of the faith in Jesus Christ as the savior of mankind hinges on the single idea that an angel heralded his birth. Surely you’re not that naïve (I wouldn’t hold my breath though). I don’t know anyone who believes in Christ just because Gabriel made an announcement, nor just because Jesus fulfilled the Deuteronomy prophecy long ago, but rather for a combination of the many hundreds (thousands?) of reasons, so many in fact, I doubt I’ll ever exhaust them all; the foreshadowing events, religious observances, rituals, and prophecies that he, Jesus Christ, fulfilled on earth, as well as all the extra biblical evidence in an array of disciplines underpinning the accounts, in both Testaments.
Quote:I challenge you to find any real evidence prior to Daniel of any Angel called Gabriel. Unless it is mentioned in the Old Testament then it does not exist for many have gotten onto the Angel Gabriel band wagon just as Mad Muhammad did.
Yeah and many false prophets have come and gone and many people have invented reasons to deny the Word of truth to misguide, Satan as the old serpent being the first. And excuse me, but I don’t need to find evidence prior to Daniel of Gabriel, I’m not even arguing that there is! What I have done is provide real Old Testament evidence prior to Daniel that refers to angels as men, which is the crux of your failure to concede Gabriel in Daniel’s vision as being an angel, despite him fulfilling the meaning of the word and biblical history of what angels do as shown elsewhere in the bible. This is kindergarten level theology. You’re ignorance of this simple fact isn’t the benchmark for changing biblical doctrine to some perverted self-serving idea that wouldn’t make you a prophet even IF you were right.
Quote:I add that you should all also note that when I stated for a fact that I was that long awaited Deuteronomy Chapter 18 verses 15/18 Prophet that I did not use any fabricated Angel Gabriel but outright showed the Angel Gabriel was a fraud. And instead to verify my statements I used the Old Testament law of Deuteronomy Chapter 19 verse 15 which is a law that binds all the Jews and is a law that judges and determines matters of the truth regarding any crime of iniquity or sin. A law brought down by Moses from the Living God himself and is therefore the actual word of the living God. I can be easily established by that specific law that binds all the Jews to be a genuine Prophet who does have a provable connection to the Living God. Now that is how things should be done.
How does invoking Deut. 19 prophecy suddenly make you a Prophet? Have you not read the rest of Deuteronomy? There’s a bit more to it than that. It’s there to weed out all the dregs on a will to power who only serve their Father and/or their own belly. If you were in Israel right now spewing this hokum, you’d be put to death if serious Old Testament, Orthodox Jews were around you, you know that? They’re obligated right there in the prophecy you assume to fulfill, put there as a grave warning against the exact thing you’re doing. Are you so far gone that you don’t understand that? You’re either insane or don’t even believe the Old Testament
Quote:Now I also challenge you and any religious scholar to establish beyond any doubt and by that same Deuteronomy Chapter 19 verse 15 law that Jesus and Mad Muhammad were who they are pretending to be. And do not mind if I scoff at your attempts to verify your own religion. After all I am the only one on this Planet amongst us who has had a hand in a miracle and those impossible things just take a little longer.
Beyond any doubt? You wouldn’t concede to a circle being round if it implied you were wrong somehow.
Quote:Starjade say; Oh so now you think you are a person who can say this and that about Angels when they are obviously beyond your scope or knowledge. Just who do you think that you are? You know nothing of the Living God and Jesus is a fraud and if you doubt that then establish Jesus is genuine by Deuteronomy Chapter 19 verse 15 law.
They are spoken of from God’s inspired word for his prophets to record, genius. Another childish question. Christ fulfilled the lot that apply up to our time, far too many to list here. I’m not here to educate you on the basics, but to show in you the perverted mind of an antichrist to others as witnesses.
Quote:Be wary now for I am not a novice and Christianity has fallen long before my conversations with the Muslims. Two over twenty years Christian ordained ministers could not defend Jesus from my Revelations and they have more knowledge on the Christians religion than you. And hey if you doubt my words then think of the words of that fabricated character Jesus and what was said he said.
It’s blasphemous that you even quote the Lord from the Holy bible. I feel dirty even responding. Nonetheless, you conveniently fail to read the following verses in John 5:31, which read:
There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true. 5:33 – Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth.
5:34 – But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved.
If the witness of two men make a thing true, how much more the Son and the Father? And as expected, you’re understanding is reduced to that of the flesh, nevertheless you have John the Baptist as a witness. Furthermore:
1 John 5: 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Fitting that you should choose the same argument that the Pharisees argued against Christ. At least you’re showing your true self and who your Father is, will you join him in the pit?
Quote:Starjade says; Daniel Chapter 8 verse 15: And it came to pass when I even I Daniel had seen the vision and sought for the meaning. Then behold there stood before me as the appearance of a man. Daniel Chapter 8 verse 16: And I heard a man’s voice between the banks of Ulai, which called and said Gabriel make this man understand the vision. Daniel Chapter 8 verse 17: So he came near where I stood and when he came I was afraid and fell upon my face. He said unto me, understand O son of man for at the Time of the End shall be the vision. Daniel Chapter 8 verse 18: Now as he was speaking with me, I was in a deep sleep on my face toward the ground: But he touched me and set me upright.
The first time Daniel encounters Gabriel is in a deep sleep – different times throughout the bible have angels appeared to people in dreams. The second time Daniel encounters Gabriel while he is awake. How Gabriel visits Daniel doesn’t really matter, but you seem to make it a big issue, so regardless you’re wrong, because Daniel encounters him while both asleep and awake. Again, Daniel noted Gabriel had “the appearance of a man” which is communicating something besides being just a man, there’s no other explanation. That’s point 1. Take into consideration with that the role of an angel that Gabriel fulfilled (point 2) and the fact that Genesis refers to angels as men just like Daniel does (point 3) and you have Gabriel qualifying as an angel, later clarified by Luke. If you can’t concede this most obvious issue, what makes you think we’ll take you serious on any other issues? Deny all you want, it really doesn’t matter at this point.
Quote:Starjade says; Firstly Daniel was explaining a dream. In your bible it may say form but it does not in mine and mine is 300 years old and designed to be read in Churches. It does not say form. You say form. And Daniel speaking says he saw the appearance of a man. NOT ANY ANGEL….
ANGELS ARE IN THE APPEARANCE OF MEN!! This is basically where the whole show stops with you I’m afraid. What hope have you to ever learn spiritual insight from the bible if you can’t understand this simple matter. This is 2+3 material, and you want to jump to differential equations.
In Genesis 31:11 an angel appears to Jacob in a dream too. SO WHAT’S YOUR POINT?
Gen 31:11 And the angel of God spake unto me in a dream, [saying], Jacob: And I said, Here [am] I.
Genesis 19 refers to angels as men too. SO WHAT’S YOUR POINT?
About using the word ‘form’ instead of ‘appearance’ I already corrected that error and explained it, like this matter anyways, it just shows how desperate you are.
Quote:Starjade says; Now you fly off into flights of fantasy searching for things that suit you and your world. Clearly a real Angel from God could carry messages from the Living God. But then why call an Angel and Angel when messenger would suffice. No you cannot escape your delusions with your fairy tales. Luke says Angel Gabriel the Koran says Angel Gabriel Muhammad was told and also says Angel Gabriel. You of course now play and say messenger when it does not say that by the one Daniel who saw the vision of Gabriel a man in a dream that he was relating.
At this point it just becomes degrading to even engage you in any real discussion anymore. You can’t even get passed Genesis 19 and you want to talk about the apocalypse and the exodus? There’s really nothing more to add, you’re flapping like a fish out of water and have to resort to mixing biblical truth with the koran; another desperate attempt to sully the good name of Jesus Christ our Lord to suit your dark agenda. You really just hate Jesus, that’s all it’s about pure and simple. You have nothing but hate in you and that’s what motivates you. You hate the truth.
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The Sura 4:82 Challenge To All Muslims. - aux - 05-21-2007 08:56 PM
The Sura 4:82 Challenge To All Muslims. - Guest - 10-29-2007, 05:14 PM
The Sura 4:82 Challenge To All Muslims. - Guest - 11-19-2007, 11:58 AM
The Sura 4:82 Challenge To All Muslims. - Guest - 12-03-2007, 02:01 PM
The Sura 4:82 Challenge To All Muslims. - Guest - 12-03-2007, 02:39 PM
The Sura 4:82 Challenge To All Muslims. - Guest - 12-04-2007, 01:47 PM
The Sura 4:82 Challenge To All Muslims. - Guest - 12-04-2007, 04:56 PM
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