|
The Sura 4:82 Challenge To All Muslims.
|
|
05-18-2007, 04:28 PM
Post: #76
|
|||
|
|||
The Sura 4:82 Challenge To All Muslims.
Quote:Free Ebook with illustrations for anyone interested. Starjade says: Sorry i have not been able to reply. I have been over taxed against Time. I have saved what has been said to disc to reply to though i ask you have patience. By the way. I am not a Jew or Muslims or Christian. I am not bound within the confines of any particular liturgical form of worship. It does not say anywhere in the Old Testament that the long awaited Deuteronomy Prophet would be a Jew. Any who think otherwise will soon bite the dust with that silly belief. |
|||
|
|
05-19-2007, 12:49 AM
(This post was last modified: 05-19-2007 12:59 AM by aux.)
Post: #77
|
|||
|
|||
|
The Sura 4:82 Challenge To All Muslims.
Hi Mr./Mrs. Starjade. Is this the prophecy of the Prophet in Deuteronomy to which you're referring:
<span style="color:#C0C0C0">Deut. 18: 15. The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet <span style="color:#FFFF33">from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me (Moses); unto him ye shall hearken; [...] 18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among <span style="color:#FFFF33">their brethren, like unto thee (referring to Moses), and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19 And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require [it] of him. 20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. If so, I guess I would like to know your interpretation of the word 'brethren.' I always thought it meant of the Jews who left Egypt with Moses. I believe it could be a spiritual Jew or a Jew in the sense of being from the lineage of Jacob/Israel, to which Jesus would fulfill in both senses. Italics are my words btw. Peace in Christ Jesus. |
|||
|
|
|
05-19-2007, 01:15 AM
Post: #78
|
|||
|
|||
|
The Sura 4:82 Challenge To All Muslims.
That's the beautiful thing about the TRuTH...Everyone and everything is disposable - prophets included..Ultimately though when Gods plans are thwarted his will disregarded even with puerile requests we always can believe in the certainty of the self-correcting mechanism..We just will have to start again, cat's eyes nine lives, yada yada. Where are all the cheer leaders? The world need cheer leaders.. Save the cheer leader :biggrin:
Whatever Red letters are a composite Law. &...God is, as it were, the sewer into which all contradictions flow.& ~Hegel |
|||
|
|
|
05-19-2007, 02:57 AM
(This post was last modified: 05-19-2007 02:59 AM by aux.)
Post: #79
|
|||
|
|||
|
The Sura 4:82 Challenge To All Muslims.
Well yeah, the flesh and materialism is disposable, that's why it's important to look past all that and not get caught up in the deceptions of the flesh but rather store your treasures in the abode of the spirit realm, the bible calls that place heaven. Welcome to reality.
Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.. Some people look at the universe and nature's order and think it was all a big accident, all from nothingness, the void, or at least fool themselves into thinking that out of fear perhaps. Some don't like the idea of not being the ultimate master of their destiny, because they are vain and refuse to humble themselves to a larger power that they can't completely comprehend (we can't fully comprehend how gravity works, but we all accept it anyways). It's actually extremely empowering when you humble yourself to the author of knowledge and power. Cast off doubt for once and seek him in sincerity and he won't let you down. You can pray to him RIGHT NOW. What are you afraid of? |
|||
|
|
|
05-19-2007, 10:43 AM
Post: #80
|
|||
|
|||
The Sura 4:82 Challenge To All Muslims.
Quote:Hi Mr./Mrs. Starjade. Is this the prophecy of the Prophet in Deuteronomy to which you're referring: Starjade says; Yes that is the Prophecy that I have been giving Chapter and verse to. It is a fact that I was first born in the Blackpool of Lancashire, I grew up in the midst of all kinds of Jews who are the brethren of all other Jews living or dead. It does not say that long awaited Prophet would be a Jew. It only says that Prophet would be raised up in the midst of the Jews. And I was. |
|||
|
|
|
05-19-2007, 10:44 AM
Post: #81
|
|||
|
|||
|
The Sura 4:82 Challenge To All Muslims.
And by the way. I am a Lord King. In the world where i comes from all Kings are always male.
|
|||
|
|
|
05-19-2007, 10:49 AM
Post: #82
|
|||
|
|||
The Sura 4:82 Challenge To All Muslims.
Quote:AUX you said; When and where Daniel was (Babylon) is significant because it helps clear up the other misconception that Gabriel was taken from the Chaldeans and Magi (famous for astrology) by the Jews and not the other way around, as the words in the book of Daniel are orders of magnitudes more highly verified by the sheer weight of fulfilled prophecy contained therein, which is the ultimate test of a prophet, even in accordance to Deuteronomy, even in dream state. Starjade says; It makes no difference where Daniel was. It was a point of the origin of Gabriel. The name Gabriel was first mentioned in the Old Testament by Daniel. It was the origin of Gabriel that I was speaking about and there was no mention of any Angel called Gabriel. We all have Bibles of one form or another. And so it is a simple matter to check. Whiles we are speaking of biblical statements we should stick to biblical statements and not get side tracked into conversations of what others yackle on about Gabriel or their beliefs in an Angel called Gabriel. Those who believe in an Angel Gabriel are either Christians and Muslims. The Muslims only believe because of Christian blabbery of which Muhammad believed which is another nail in his coffin. Quote:AUX you said; As for Gabriel being just a man, this is also a misconception. That's like saying Jesus Son of God was just a man. You're playing word games when you say Luke was the first to refer to Gabriel as an angel, that doesn't mean Gabriel never made appearances or was referred to before. Starjade says; It is openly written in the Old Testament and I have given you the chapter and verses and so it is not a misconception it is a religious fact. You cannot alter those words as a matter of personal convenience. Jesus was a fabricated fraud and not an actual real person who ever lived. He was not the son of god or a man or gods prophet. Remind yourself that we were discussing this Angel Gabriel that they fabricated in order to promote their character Jesus as being that long awaited Prophet that the living God promised Moses he would raise up in the midst of the Jews. That was the very reason why they called Jesus the King of the Jews. Now when it is proven that this Angel Gabriel is also a fraud then that also shows the story of the birth of Jesus is also a fabricated fraud. Of mans invention. I do not play games when it comes down to religion. The character Luke was the very first to mention any Angel Gabriel. Hard as it may be for you to grasp, I am something of a religious expert in my own right. The character Luke was written in long after that character was said to have lived and died and it was written in by the Romans. So they could say whatever they liked. Would you say Sherlock Holmes existed simply because somebody wrote a story about that character. ? Do you then also believe all those tales were real simply because some writer wrote the tale as if it was. Well it is simple fiction. The Romans were most deceitful. They used the personification of an Angel called Gabriel to promote the tale of Jesus and John the Baptist and Mad Muhammad did similar when he promoted himself believing also in that fabricated Angel Gabriel that he heard of from the Christians tales not realizing that those tales were writ to promote Jesus at a later time as being that long awaited Deuteronomy Prophet. The reason why that is a stupid mistake of religious ignorance on behalf of Muhammad was that he used the same Angel Gabriel to promote himself as being that Deuteronomy Prophet and stated that the words of the Koran came from that fabricated Angel Gabriel. This fact then also shows errors in the words of that fabricated Angel Gabriel and in the claims of Muhammad and also in 11 Chapters of the Koran and in fact in the whole of the Koran that is claimed to have come from the mouth of the fabricated Angel Gabriel. I challenge you to find any real evidence prior to Daniel of any Angel called Gabriel. Unless it is mentioned in the Old Testament then it does not exist for many have gotten onto the Angel Gabriel band wagon just as Mad Muhammad did. I add that you should all also note that when I stated for a fact that I was that long awaited Deuteronomy Chapter 18 verses 15/18 Prophet that I did not use any fabricated Angel Gabriel but outright showed the Angel Gabriel was a fraud. And instead to verify my statements I used the Old Testament law of Deuteronomy Chapter 19 verse 15 which is a law that binds all the Jews and is a law that judges and determines matters of the truth regarding any crime of iniquity or sin. A law brought down by Moses from the Living God himself and is therefore the actual word of the living God. I can be easily established by that specific law that binds all the Jews to be a genuine Prophet who does have a provable connection to the Living God. Now that is how things should be done. Now I also challenge you and any religious scholar to establish beyond any doubt and by that same Deuteronomy Chapter 19 verse 15 law that Jesus and Mad Muhammad were who they are pretending to be. And do not mind if I scoff at your attempts to verify your own religion. After all I am the only one on this Planet amongst us who has had a hand in a miracle and those impossible things just take a little longer. Quote:AUX you said; Angels are sons of God and Jesus Christ was Son of God as is noted in scripture. Starjade say; Oh so now you think you are a person who can say this and that about Angels when they are obviously beyond your scope or knowledge. Just who do you think that you are? You know nothing of the Living God and Jesus is a fraud and if you doubt that then establish Jesus is genuine by Deuteronomy Chapter 19 verse 15 law. Be wary now for I am not a novice and Christianity has fallen long before my conversations with the Muslims. Two over twenty years Christian ordained ministers could not defend Jesus from my Revelations and they have more knowledge on the Christians religion than you. And hey if you doubt my words then think of the words of that fabricated character Jesus and what was said he said. Jesus had said in John Chapter 5 Verse 31: If I alone bear witness to myself, my witness is not true. Also in John Chapter 8 Verse 17: Jesus said to the Jews: Also in your own law it is written, the witness of two men is true. Verse 18: he continues to say: I am the one who bears witness about myself and the father who sent me bears witness about me. The writers of the disciples of Jesus who gave hearsay Testimony that stood against the law of Deuteronomy Ch 19 v 15 had already claimed using the Angel Gabriel that Jesus was the Son of the living God and Jesus was naming God as being his other witness. However as God could not be produced to give any Testimony for Jesus, then it was only his own Testimony and his own Testimony is not acceptable by religious law and cannot be established as being true. There are no actual witness Testimonies for the birth of Jesus or for his acclaimed miracles or for his being tempted by the devil or flying off to heaven and I can even show you how the writers of the New Testament stole their ideas for the tale of Jesus from the Old Testament and so be certain you will bite the dust. Quote:AUX you said; The Daniel passage refers to Gabriel as being in the "form of a man." If he was just a man, why would the word bother telling us it was the FORM of a man? Starjade says; Daniel Chapter 8 verse 15: And it came to pass when I even I Daniel had seen the vision and sought for the meaning. Then behold there stood before me as the appearance of a man. Daniel Chapter 8 verse 16: And I heard a mans voice between the banks of Ulai, which called and said Gabriel make this man understand the vision. Daniel Chapter 8 verse 17: So he came near where I stood and when he came I was afraid and fell upon my face. He said unto me, understand O son of man for at the Time of the End shall be the vision. Daniel Chapter 8 verse 18: Now as he was speaking with me, I was in a deep sleep on my face toward the ground: But he touched me and set me upright. End Quote. Verse. 169: The second reference to Gabriel was in Daniel Chapter 9 verse 21: Yea whiles I was speaking in prayer even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the Time of the evening oblation. End Quote. Daniel was in a deep sleep and he saw this vision in a dream. At no Time throughout his statement did Daniel refer to Gabriel as being an Angel? Daniel did describe Gabriel as being a man and further that he was a man that he saw in his dream while he was in a deep sleep. This is where Gabriel originated from, in the dreams of Daniel. Starjade says; Firstly Daniel was explaining a dream. In your bible it may say form but it does not in mine and mine is 300 years old and designed to be read in Churches. It does not say form. You say form. And Daniel speaking says he saw the appearance of a man. NOT ANY ANGEL . |
|||
|
|
|
05-19-2007, 10:50 AM
Post: #83
|
|||
|
|||
The Sura 4:82 Challenge To All Muslims.
Quote:AUX you said; He was a messenger from God, which means he was an angel- angel literally means 'messenger' or 'one sent,' and this is what was done. Gabriel may rightly be referred to as a man if that is the form he comes in, but the distinguishment is made by calling attention to his being a mere form of man, as Christ came in the likeness of sinful flesh, but did not sin. (This gets too deep, you can see why I was reluctant to delve into this now). Starjade says; Now you fly off into flights of fantasy searching for things that suit you and your world. Clearly a real Angel from God could carry messages from the Living God. But then why call an Angel and Angel when messenger would suffice. No you cannot escape your delusions with your fairy tales. Luke says Angel Gabriel the Koran says Angel Gabriel Muhammad was told and also says Angel Gabriel. You of course now play and say messenger when it does not say that by the one Daniel who saw the vision of Gabriel a man in a dream that he was relating. Explain whiles you avoid the matter just how come this Angel Gabriel proclaims the birth of the character Jesus who later is claimed as being that Deuteronomy Prophet who about a thousand years later is claimed to have appeared on a Mountain to proclaim mad Muhammad as being that Deuteronomy Prophet. This is the Prophet that God promised Moses he would raise up that the two religions are promoting using the very same Angel Gabriel. So then as the Living God only promised to raise up one Deuteronomy Prophet then this Angel Gabriel is not a messenger from God or an Angel from God because this fabricated Angel Gabriel is openly standing against the words and the Prophecy of the living God as brought down by Moses himself. Had the writers of these Angel tales paid more attention to details they would have seen that Daniel was in a deep sleep and spoke of a man not an Angel or messenger from God either. You can clutch for as many straws as you want you will still drown in denial. Oh and I am being brief here. It is a historical fact that neither Jesus nor Mad Muhammad could have been the Prophet they proclaimed some Angel Gabriel had claimed themselves to being. There is a little matter of the apocalypse and the Exodus that the Jews have been waiting for that Deuteronomy Prophet to come along and organize. Explain exactly how Mad Muhammad and the fabricated fraud Jesus could gather up all the Jews from the four corners of the globe and lead them to a new land when in fact at that Time they did not know the extent of the lands on earth and the Jews were not at that Time scattered to the four corners of the globe. That scattering of the Jews only happened during the world wars and only in our Time could they be contacted to the four corners of the globe and whoopee the internet is a cool medium for that speaking to those congregations. And that isnt even mentioning the many signs in the heavens prophesied to appear. Quote:AUX you said; We see Gabriel again commissioned for a similar task later in Luke Chapter 1. Starjade says; Oh goodee you are making that mistake of speaking of ole Zacharias. Yet another fabricated tale of deception that defies logic. I got another Christian by the short and curlies on a philosophers form not so long ago with that one. As you chose to speak of ole Zacharias who was fabricated so as to tell the tale of the birth of John the Baptist who of course was a character that was going to become the main character witness for Jesus at a later time in the tall tales of Christianity. Explain to use all as you obviously think that you know the know what with you being a Christian believer and all. Quote:Luke 1:8 And it came to pass, that while he executed the priest's office before God in the order of his course, Starjade say; So the multitudes were outside the Temple and did not see what was going on in the Temple. Yet Lukes description is so graphic on a matter to which there were no witnesses too. It is claimed ole Zacharias was alone and as we all know Deuteronomy Chapter 19 verse 15 by now two or three witnesses are needed to prove a thing is true. Luke was not a witness to this event claimed to have happened in the Temple. So it is a fabricated hearsay testimony as Judged by Deuteronomy law and deemed to not being true. Quote:Luke 1:19 And the angel answering said unto him, I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God; and am sent to speak unto thee, and to shew thee these glad tidings. Starjade says; Even as the fabricated tale unfolds ole Zacharias was said to have been struck dumb. So nobody could know what was said to have gone on in this fabricated Temple. Luke certainly could not have known. And as per usual we see no testimony from ole Zacharias. Yet we do know discrepancies in that tale such as Deuteronomy law Chapter 19 verse 15 stating you need two or three witnesses to prove a thing is true. Of course as no witnesses exist even in that tale then as the law states the matter then is not established as being true. How do you explain that then. ? Be wary of your reply as I am known to eat Christians for breakfast. And as has been explained this fabricated tale writ by Romans of the Angel called Gabriel has already accumulated discrepancies within the word of this supposed Angel. That stand against the actual word of the living God. It is after all just a fictional tale writ by the Romans. |
|||
|
|
|
05-19-2007, 10:51 AM
(This post was last modified: 05-19-2007 10:54 AM by Starjade.)
Post: #84
|
|||
|
|||
The Sura 4:82 Challenge To All Muslims.
Quote:AUX you said; It's firmly established that Gabriel comes from heaven and reveals events of the future and help interpret them to man, which makes him an angel by definition. This happens again in his appearance to Mary. Starjade says; it is not firmly established at all. There are no witnesses to this Angel Gabriel beyond the writers imagination and the entire tale in the New Testament and the Koran are established as being untrue by Deuteronomy Chapter 19 verse 15 law. Or perhaps you never were religious enough to follow or obey religious laws. It is only some writer making these claims perhaps you also think Moriarty existed in Sherlock Holmes just because a writer wrote the character in as if real. It is simple story telling. Quote:AUX you said; I'm not here to convert you, I'm here to help the other Christians you're trying to misguide. Hopefully their faith in the truth is already strong enough to where they don't need me to step in. Starjade doth say; hahahaha that is most funny. You thinking such a thing. People can have as much faith as they want but be certain it will make their anger blaze when reality and common sense rears its ugly head. Quote:AUX you said; Trust me, you won't accept what I (a mere non-prophet) just told you. Peace in Christ Jesus. Starjade says; Erm scuse me but I did say the character Jesus was a fraud in the first place. How silly of mad Muhammad or anyone to have believed in that character in the first place. After all Deuteronomy Chapter 19 verse 15 law already established that tale was a fabricated fraud in the first place. Oh and you can be so very sure I have other evidence. Quote:AUX you said; Not "form of a man' but "appearance of a man," you knew what i meant tho, I quoted it verbatim. sorry i had just woken. Starjade says; Ah so you read what you said back and realized you let your mind wander into a small self indulgent rant. Its OK I mentioned that point. Quote:AUX you said; Better yet, who saved the lives of and was put in charge over all the wisemen, magicians, and astrologers in Babylon circa 600BC and foretold many events (still coming to pass today) accurately and read and interpreted Nebuchadnezzar's dream and was visited by the individual in question? Starjade says: Well what is better yet who did the Living God choose to be that long awaited Deuteronomy Chapter 18 verses 15/18 Prophet. Yep it is the much loved Deuteronomy Doomsday Prophet Starjade the Lord King and King of Kings. And as you can see I can and do eat Muslims and Christians for breakfast and they are mere crumbs on my breakfast table. Quote:AUX you said; Lets not strain at the gnats only to swallow camels. Starjade doth say; I do love those biblical quips you know. Those writers sure could coin a phrase. Quote:AUX you said; What makes you think you've got Daniel and everything surrounding him all figured out? Starjade doth say; Oh well I think it is because I can read what was writ in black and white for all to see. Quote:AUX you said; Lets not get up our own ass with pre-suppositions... Starjade doth say; What you mean like wot you just did. |
|||
|
|
|
05-19-2007, 10:54 AM
Post: #85
|
|||
|
|||
The Sura 4:82 Challenge To All Muslims.
Quote:hilly7 you say; Starjade say; The way I write especially as I write at length it is easier to see who is saying what and to whom. Muslims give their worship to the pagan moon god Hubal al’ilah. Their god is the moon not the Living God of Abraham and of Moses and of the much loved Doomsday Prophet Starjade. So you are mistaken on all counts. And looking at the above statement to AUX I have to correct you yet again. You Christians and Muslims do make me look very good. Quote:hilly7 you say; Well this thread certainly got far off topic didn't it? A challenge to Muslims by a Jew (I think?) and you end up with a Christian defending the book of Daniel. Classic. Starjade says: Well it is not unusual to see that topic spin in threads I write in after all in a way they are all connected to each other. The Christian AUX was not trying to defend Daniel he was trying to defend his fabricated Angel Gabriel against the Revelations of the Deuteronomy Prophet Starjade. Rather a bad mistake to argue such points with a real Prophet from the living God who just happens to be that specific Deuteronomy Chapter 18 verses 15/18 Prophet that the living God promised Moses he would raise up in the midst of the Jews. Especially as up front I have shown how Deuteronomy law does already establish that I am that very specific Deuteronomy Chapter 18 verses 15/18 Prophet in the first place. I do laugh about that reality you know for even after most long debates the penny just never seems to drop. And fools who think they walk in the shadow of Angels come before me to argue for the false pretenders to my Throne. For me that is most entertaining. Especially when every time they stand against me with their self believing yackle they inevitably bite the Dust. Its all just pure Gold. And whiles they speak they just cannot conceive what was said in the very beginnings. I am not the one who is guilty of any crime of iniquity or sin in the statements that I make. As can already be established by the law of Deuteronomy Chapter 19 verse 15 which is a law that binds all the descendants of Abraham and which is a law brought down by Moses from the Living God himself. Now that is the actual word of the living God. And the living God did say; Deuteronomy Chapter 18 verse 19: And it must occur that the man who will not listen to my words that { he } will speak in my name I shall myself require an account from him. Of course who better to demand that account than the Living Gods long awaited Deuteronomy Chapter 18 verses 15/18 Prophet the much loved Doomsday Prophet Starjade. And we all know already for it is not an empty brag that all who dares to stand against me are going to bite the Dust. No wonder there is such a conspiracy of silence against me. They are all afraid of my God given Revelations. |
|||
|
|
|
05-19-2007, 10:54 AM
Post: #86
|
|||
|
|||
The Sura 4:82 Challenge To All Muslims.
Quote:deathstickboy you said; Where did Abraham come from? Starjade smiles and say; Is this like the which came first the Chicken or the egg thingy. ? :) |
|||
|
|
|
05-21-2007, 11:07 AM
Post: #87
|
|||
|
|||
The Sura 4:82 Challenge To All Muslims.
Quote:Quote: deathstickboy you said; Where did Abraham come from? By the way in case you were wondering. Which came first the Chicken or the Egg. The answer is neither the Cock came first. :D |
|||
|
|
|
05-21-2007, 11:10 AM
Post: #88
|
|||
|
|||
|
The Sura 4:82 Challenge To All Muslims.
So no more arguments on the Angel Gabriel thingy eh? Are you researching the matter.
And No Muslim then dares to argue or deny the fact that the Koran does not come from God and that Mad Muhammad is a liar and a fraud as well. :rolleyes: Well now panic not you Muslims will not be escaping the account that I am demanding. |
|||
|
|
|
05-21-2007, 08:55 PM
(This post was last modified: 05-21-2007 09:12 PM by aux.)
Post: #89
|
|||
|
|||
The Sura 4:82 Challenge To All Muslims.
Quote:Starjade says; Yes that is the Prophecy that I have been giving Chapter and verse to. It is a fact that I was first born in the Blackpool of Lancashire, I grew up in the midst of all kinds of Jews who are the brethren of all other Jews living or dead. It does not say that long awaited Prophet would be a Jew. It only says that Prophet would be raised up in the midst of the Jews. And I was. Okay, but there are probably several millions who can claim to be this Prophet based on the qualifications you have cited so far. Quote:Starjade says; It makes no difference where Daniel was. It was a point of the origin of Gabriel. The name Gabriel was first mentioned in the Old Testament by Daniel. Correction, it makes no difference to Starjade, where Daniel was when he first wrote of Gabriel, the messenger, the one sent to give and explain a prophecy in Daniel’s vision. There, now you’re statement isn’t just your opinion, and qualifies as a fact if indeed you really don’t think it makes a difference. Quote:It was the origin of Gabriel that I was speaking about and there was no mention of any Angel called Gabriel. We all have Bibles of one form or another. And so it is a simple matter to check. It’s also a simple matter to check what the word angel actually means. If you didn’t get it the first time I wrote it, here it goes again: Angel is a descriptive term that means ‘messenger’ or ‘one sent.’ The word is used in scripture to distinguish a person not of the seed of Adam who is commissioned for some purpose from God. Satan has angels as well. Gabriel is said to have the ‘appearance of a man.’ If he was just a man, it would be understood he appeared as one, the fact that it is specifically stated Gabriel ‘appeared’ as a man couldn’t make it any more clear that he was not just an ordinary man. There is biblical precedence for angels being called men as early as Genesis, a book Daniel would have known well. Quote:Whiles we are speaking of biblical statements we should stick to biblical statements and not get side tracked into conversations of what others yackle on about Gabriel or their beliefs in an Angel called Gabriel. Fair enough. I can agree with that. However, you’ve already broken your own rule, because you have a habit of asserting your own opinions on what Gabriel was in the book of Daniel and the origin of Gabriel in the book of Luke. You’re opinions have no authority outside of your own mind. Quote:Those who believe in an Angel Gabriel are either Christians and Muslims. The Muslims only believe because of Christian blabbery of which Muhammad believed which is another nail in his coffin. “Whiles we are speaking of biblical statements we should stick to biblical statements and not get side tracked into conversations of what others yackle on about Gabriel or their beliefs in an Angel called Gabriel.” You're opinions not only don't belong in this discussion, but you are categorically wrong, but don't take it from me this Jewish website has a Jew explaining at least one Jewish school of thought on angels and admits Gabriel is an angel. http://www.jtnews.net/index.php?/columnists/item/35/C9/ Here's a quote: "2. Humility. Before bedtime, we recite a prayer that evokes the names of the four most renowned angels: Michael, Gabriel, Uriel and Raphael. These angels are said to escort us wherever we walk, with the Divine shechinah above us. One stands to the right, one to the left, one in front and one behind." When are you going to learn anything starjade? Quote:Starjade says; It is openly written in the Old Testament and I have given you the chapter and verses and so it is not a misconception it is a religious fact. You cannot alter those words as a matter of personal convenience. Who is altering? I simply maintain that angels are referred to as men in the bible, specifically the Old Testament. This stance is biblically sound and quite frankly I’m astonished you would even have a problem accepting it. For all the pomp and glory you ride in on, being such a religious expert, nay, a Prophet, it’s truly amazing you would overlook Genesis 19, where angels are referred to as men numerous times (just as Daniel referred to Gabriel as a man). Here, let me help you out and show you exactly what I’m talking about (italics are mine): Genesis 19: 1. And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing [them] rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground; 2 And he said, Behold now, my lords (a title given to men, notice the lowercase L), turn in, I pray you, into your servant's house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night. 3 And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat. (we see angels can eat food like men) 4. But before they lay down, the men of the city, [even] the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter: 5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where [are] the men (first instance of men calling angels men, likely unwittingly, but that is beside the point) which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them. 6 And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him, 7 And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly. 8 Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as [is] good in your eyes: only unto these men (Lot refers to the two angels as men) do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof. 9 And they said, Stand back. And they said [again], This one [fellow] came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, [even] Lot, and came near to break the door. 10 But the men (here, the Word refers to the angels as men, this was not Lot or the Sodomites speaking, but the Word) put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door. 11 And they smote the men that [were] at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door. 12. And the men (the Word once again, without stuttering, refers to angels as men) said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring [them] out of this place: 13 For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath sent us to destroy it. Now just as the men in this passage refer to angels as men, Daniel, as a man, referred to the angel Gabriel as a man, which seems to have you stumbling despite all the contrary evidence stacked against you; but more importantly, the inspired Word itself refers to angels as men, not to be confused with Lot or the Sodomites, or any other men of the seed of Adam. It doesn’t get any clearer than this. Gabriel delivered some of the most impressive prophecies in the entire bible, but you’ll have us believe that he was just a man or not even real? This totally undermines your own (false) claim to Prophet hood as it rests in the same Old Testament that Daniel does. I could stop here now, but just to make an example of you I’ll indulge you’re attention-seeking adventure. Now, Mr. Starjade, you have a chance to show us what kind of person we are really dealing with here. I have a feeling I know what your next trick will be though as you get desperate, if only just to keep the false self-construct you’ve built for yourself from collapsing in a heap of deceit. Try accepting the truth for once, it’s much more rewarding. Quote:Jesus was a fabricated fraud and not an actual real person who ever lived. He was not the son of god or a man or gods prophet. Remind yourself that we were discussing this Angel Gabriel that they fabricated in order to promote their character Jesus as being that long awaited Prophet that the living God promised Moses he would raise up in the midst of the Jews. That was the very reason why they called Jesus the King of the Jews. Now when it is proven that this Angel Gabriel is also a fraud then that also shows the story of the birth of Jesus is also a fabricated fraud. Of mans invention. “Whiles we are speaking of biblical statements we should stick to biblical statements and not get side tracked…” You can feebly attack the foretold Prophet, Priest, and Messiah Jesus all day long, we already know you don’t accept Christ, but stating your opinion as if it was backed with any authority just goes to the heart of the delusion you’ve decided to wallow in. You do realize I could say the exact same thing you just did and change the focus to Moses right? In fact you can probably find millions of people who think Moses was just the figment of some Rabbi’s imagination. The fact is, there’s tons more evidence for the historical person of Christ outside the bible then there is for Moses (and even more modern famous persons).. oh, but realizing that might actually take us back down to reality, can’t have that now, not if we want to play dress up and go around referring to ourselves in third person as a biblical Prophet. Quote:I do not play games when it comes down to religion. Oh aye! Me neither, so from now on you have to call me the Tooth Fairy. Quote:The character Luke was the very first to mention any Angel Gabriel. Ok, so you like word games, fine, just don’t bring them into matters of interpreting scripture to somehow build new doctrines so you can start a cult. Luke was the first to refer to Gabriel as an angel, and biblical standard (in this case language and roles) categorizes Gabriel from the book of Daniel as an angel. Likewise, even if Luke had failed to refer to Gabriel as an angel, it would still be clear to everyone without an agenda that he was an angel. The two mentions are either the same person, or there are two angels named Gabriel. Quote:Hard as it may be for you to grasp, I am something of a religious expert in my own right. Well you would have to be, being the great Prophet of Deuteronomy and all. |
|||
|
|
|
05-21-2007, 08:56 PM
(This post was last modified: 05-21-2007 09:31 PM by aux.)
Post: #90
|
|||
|
|||
The Sura 4:82 Challenge To All Muslims.
Quote:The character Luke was written in long after that character was said to have lived and died and it was written in by the Romans. So they could say whatever they liked. Would you say Sherlock Holmes existed simply because somebody wrote a story about that character. ? Do you then also believe all those tales were real simply because some writer wrote the tale as if it was. Well it is simple fiction. The Romans were most deceitful. “Whiles we are speaking of biblical statements we should stick to biblical statements and not get side tracked into conversations of what others yackle on ...” Again, you’re whole (ill-informed) premise could be applied to Moses. Casting aspersions is easy, it means nothing here. You’re personal thoughts have no biblical authority or bearing on reality. Quote:They used the personification of an Angel called Gabriel to promote the tale of Jesus and John the Baptist and Mad Muhammad did similar when he promoted himself believing also in that fabricated Angel Gabriel that he heard of from the Christians tales not realizing that those tales were writ to promote Jesus at a later time as being that long awaited Deuteronomy Prophet. The reason why that is a stupid mistake of religious ignorance on behalf of Muhammad was that he used the same Angel Gabriel to promote himself as being that Deuteronomy Prophet and stated that the words of the Koran came from that fabricated Angel Gabriel. I don’t care about the Satanic hoax known as Islam in this discussion. But you seem to suggest the whole of the faith in Jesus Christ as the savior of mankind hinges on the single idea that an angel heralded his birth. Surely you’re not that naïve (I wouldn’t hold my breath though). I don’t know anyone who believes in Christ just because Gabriel made an announcement, nor just because Jesus fulfilled the Deuteronomy prophecy long ago, but rather for a combination of the many hundreds (thousands?) of reasons, so many in fact, I doubt I’ll ever exhaust them all; the foreshadowing events, religious observances, rituals, and prophecies that he, Jesus Christ, fulfilled on earth, as well as all the extra biblical evidence in an array of disciplines underpinning the accounts, in both Testaments. Quote:I challenge you to find any real evidence prior to Daniel of any Angel called Gabriel. Unless it is mentioned in the Old Testament then it does not exist for many have gotten onto the Angel Gabriel band wagon just as Mad Muhammad did. Yeah and many false prophets have come and gone and many people have invented reasons to deny the Word of truth to misguide, Satan as the old serpent being the first. And excuse me, but I don’t need to find evidence prior to Daniel of Gabriel, I’m not even arguing that there is! What I have done is provide real Old Testament evidence prior to Daniel that refers to angels as men, which is the crux of your failure to concede Gabriel in Daniel’s vision as being an angel, despite him fulfilling the meaning of the word and biblical history of what angels do as shown elsewhere in the bible. This is kindergarten level theology. You’re ignorance of this simple fact isn’t the benchmark for changing biblical doctrine to some perverted self-serving idea that wouldn’t make you a prophet even IF you were right. Quote:I add that you should all also note that when I stated for a fact that I was that long awaited Deuteronomy Chapter 18 verses 15/18 Prophet that I did not use any fabricated Angel Gabriel but outright showed the Angel Gabriel was a fraud. And instead to verify my statements I used the Old Testament law of Deuteronomy Chapter 19 verse 15 which is a law that binds all the Jews and is a law that judges and determines matters of the truth regarding any crime of iniquity or sin. A law brought down by Moses from the Living God himself and is therefore the actual word of the living God. I can be easily established by that specific law that binds all the Jews to be a genuine Prophet who does have a provable connection to the Living God. Now that is how things should be done. How does invoking Deut. 19 prophecy suddenly make you a Prophet? Have you not read the rest of Deuteronomy? There’s a bit more to it than that. It’s there to weed out all the dregs on a will to power who only serve their Father and/or their own belly. If you were in Israel right now spewing this hokum, you’d be put to death if serious Old Testament, Orthodox Jews were around you, you know that? They’re obligated right there in the prophecy you assume to fulfill, put there as a grave warning against the exact thing you’re doing. Are you so far gone that you don’t understand that? You’re either insane or don’t even believe the Old Testament Quote:Now I also challenge you and any religious scholar to establish beyond any doubt and by that same Deuteronomy Chapter 19 verse 15 law that Jesus and Mad Muhammad were who they are pretending to be. And do not mind if I scoff at your attempts to verify your own religion. After all I am the only one on this Planet amongst us who has had a hand in a miracle and those impossible things just take a little longer. Beyond any doubt? You wouldn’t concede to a circle being round if it implied you were wrong somehow. Quote:Starjade say; Oh so now you think you are a person who can say this and that about Angels when they are obviously beyond your scope or knowledge. Just who do you think that you are? You know nothing of the Living God and Jesus is a fraud and if you doubt that then establish Jesus is genuine by Deuteronomy Chapter 19 verse 15 law. They are spoken of from God’s inspired word for his prophets to record, genius. Another childish question. Christ fulfilled the lot that apply up to our time, far too many to list here. I’m not here to educate you on the basics, but to show in you the perverted mind of an antichrist to others as witnesses. Quote:Be wary now for I am not a novice and Christianity has fallen long before my conversations with the Muslims. Two over twenty years Christian ordained ministers could not defend Jesus from my Revelations and they have more knowledge on the Christians religion than you. And hey if you doubt my words then think of the words of that fabricated character Jesus and what was said he said. It’s blasphemous that you even quote the Lord from the Holy bible. I feel dirty even responding. Nonetheless, you conveniently fail to read the following verses in John 5:31, which read: There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true. 5:33 – Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth. 5:34 – But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved. If the witness of two men make a thing true, how much more the Son and the Father? And as expected, you’re understanding is reduced to that of the flesh, nevertheless you have John the Baptist as a witness. Furthermore: 1 John 5: 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. Fitting that you should choose the same argument that the Pharisees argued against Christ. At least you’re showing your true self and who your Father is, will you join him in the pit? Quote:Starjade says; Daniel Chapter 8 verse 15: And it came to pass when I even I Daniel had seen the vision and sought for the meaning. Then behold there stood before me as the appearance of a man. Daniel Chapter 8 verse 16: And I heard a man’s voice between the banks of Ulai, which called and said Gabriel make this man understand the vision. Daniel Chapter 8 verse 17: So he came near where I stood and when he came I was afraid and fell upon my face. He said unto me, understand O son of man for at the Time of the End shall be the vision. Daniel Chapter 8 verse 18: Now as he was speaking with me, I was in a deep sleep on my face toward the ground: But he touched me and set me upright. The first time Daniel encounters Gabriel is in a deep sleep – different times throughout the bible have angels appeared to people in dreams. The second time Daniel encounters Gabriel while he is awake. How Gabriel visits Daniel doesn’t really matter, but you seem to make it a big issue, so regardless you’re wrong, because Daniel encounters him while both asleep and awake. Again, Daniel noted Gabriel had “the appearance of a man” which is communicating something besides being just a man, there’s no other explanation. That’s point 1. Take into consideration with that the role of an angel that Gabriel fulfilled (point 2) and the fact that Genesis refers to angels as men just like Daniel does (point 3) and you have Gabriel qualifying as an angel, later clarified by Luke. If you can’t concede this most obvious issue, what makes you think we’ll take you serious on any other issues? Deny all you want, it really doesn’t matter at this point. Quote:Starjade says; Firstly Daniel was explaining a dream. In your bible it may say form but it does not in mine and mine is 300 years old and designed to be read in Churches. It does not say form. You say form. And Daniel speaking says he saw the appearance of a man. NOT ANY ANGEL…. ANGELS ARE IN THE APPEARANCE OF MEN!! This is basically where the whole show stops with you I’m afraid. What hope have you to ever learn spiritual insight from the bible if you can’t understand this simple matter. This is 2+3 material, and you want to jump to differential equations. In Genesis 31:11 an angel appears to Jacob in a dream too. SO WHAT’S YOUR POINT? Gen 31:11 And the angel of God spake unto me in a dream, [saying], Jacob: And I said, Here [am] I. Genesis 19 refers to angels as men too. SO WHAT’S YOUR POINT? About using the word ‘form’ instead of ‘appearance’ I already corrected that error and explained it, like this matter anyways, it just shows how desperate you are. Quote:Starjade says; Now you fly off into flights of fantasy searching for things that suit you and your world. Clearly a real Angel from God could carry messages from the Living God. But then why call an Angel and Angel when messenger would suffice. No you cannot escape your delusions with your fairy tales. Luke says Angel Gabriel the Koran says Angel Gabriel Muhammad was told and also says Angel Gabriel. You of course now play and say messenger when it does not say that by the one Daniel who saw the vision of Gabriel a man in a dream that he was relating. At this point it just becomes degrading to even engage you in any real discussion anymore. You can’t even get passed Genesis 19 and you want to talk about the apocalypse and the exodus? There’s really nothing more to add, you’re flapping like a fish out of water and have to resort to mixing biblical truth with the koran; another desperate attempt to sully the good name of Jesus Christ our Lord to suit your dark agenda. You really just hate Jesus, that’s all it’s about pure and simple. You have nothing but hate in you and that’s what motivates you. You hate the truth. <shakes head> |
|||
|
|
|
« Next Oldest | Next Newest »
|
User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)