The Sura 4:82 Challenge To All Muslims.

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Quote: AUX you said; Btw, Daniel was held captive in Babylon in 2nd century BC and was head of the magi there and had massive power from ol' King Nebbie. It's no great wonder that the angel was co-opted up by various cults there as all pagan cults are notorious for doing.

Starjade say; Scuse me before you rant away. I do not care about Daniel or of where he is or was. At no Time did Daniel ever mention any Angel called Gabriel in those passages. He only described a man and a man he saw whiles he was in a deep sleep. These passages of Daniel are the first mention of Gabriel and Daniel described a man not any Angel.

When and where Daniel was (Babylon) is significant because it helps clear up the other misconception that Gabriel was taken from the Chaldeans and Magi (famous for astrology) by the Jews and not the other way around, as the words in the book of Daniel are orders of magnitudes more highly verified by the sheer weight of fulfilled prophecy contained therein, which is the ultimate test of a prophet, even in accordance to Deuteronomy, even in dream state.

As for Gabriel being just a man, this is also a misconception. That's like saying Jesus Son of God was just a man. You're playing word games when you say Luke was the first to refer to Gabriel as an angel, that doesn't mean Gabriel never made appearances or was referred to before. Angels are sons of God and Jesus Christ was Son of God as is noted in scripture. The Daniel passage refers to Gabriel as being in the "form of a man." If he was just a man, why would the word bother telling us it was the FORM of a man? He was a messenger from God, which means he was an angel- angel literally means 'messenger' or 'one sent,' and this is what was done. Gabriel may rightly be referred to as a man if that is the form he comes in, but the distinguishment is made by calling attention to his being a mere form of man, as Christ came in the likeness of sinful flesh, but did not sin. (This gets too deep, you can see why I was reluctant to delve into this now).


Daniel 8:
15. And it came to pass, when I, [even] I Daniel, had seen the vision, and sought for the meaning, then, behold, there stood before me as the <span style="color:#FFFF00">appearance of a man.
16 And I heard a man's voice between [the banks of] Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this [man] to understand the vision.
17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end [shall be] the vision.


We see Gabriel again commissioned for a similar task later in Luke Chapter 1.

Luke1:
18 And Zacharias said unto the angel, Whereby shall I know this? for I am an old man, and my wife well stricken in years.
19 And the angel answering said unto him, I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God; and am <span style="color:#FFFF00">sent to speak unto thee, and <span style="color:#FFFF00">to shew thee these glad tidings.

It's firmly established that Gabriel comes from heaven and reveals events of the future and help interpret them to man, which makes him an angel by definition. This happens again in his appearance to Mary.

I'm not here to convert you, I'm here to help the other Christians you're trying to misguide. Hopefully their faith in the truth is already strong enough to where they don't need me to step in.

Trust me, you won't accept what I (a mere non-prophet) just told you.

Peace in Christ Jesus.