The Sura 4:82 Challenge To All Muslims.

[Naila]

The revelations of God reach us in a different dimension, safe from the futile contortions of the mind. It's not "safe" for the mind to assume anything at all about things it can't fathom, because they speak directly to the heart (assuming one's heart is open to such things). Just ask Jesus, St. Theresa, St. John of the Cross, Martin Luther King, and others who'd still be tripping on the first step of the mountain if their inspirations from the Creator had to be explained to the satisfaction of logical positivists.

[deathstickboy]

You cannot reconcile the fact that the purported revelations come from an "Angel", and all that entails with an actual understanding of the mysticism behind it.

Quote:Angels are found in the Judaic, Christian, Islamic and Zoroastrian traditions. The word "angel" is derived from the Christian Latin "angelos", itself derived from the Greek "aggelos", which is a translation of the Hebrew word "mal'akh", a messenger.

Angels are typically found in groupings of four, seven and twelve, reflecting their role in mediating the divine influence via the planets and the stars. For example, in Zorastrianism there was a belief in the Amesha Spentas, seven holy or bounteous immortals who were functional aspects of Ahura Mazda, the Wise Lord. In Islam four angels are well known: Jibril (Gabriel), the angel of revelation; Mikal (Michael), the angel of nature; Izrail (Azrael), the angel of death, and Israfil, the angel who places the soul in the body and sounds the last judgement.

Nor the fact that there is nothing original in said "revelations".
That doesn't mean one cannot derive some satisfactory personal message of "spiritual truth" from them, but there is no basis to claim that they are "original and particular revelations of The Creator to his Prophet", other than the fact that the prophet claims it.

When you take time to understand that religions are created by illuminist mystical orders in the first place, as yet another means of elite organization of society, things become quite clear.

For example, the amusing fact that Gabriel is favored by Muslims, and Michael by Christians, is just one example of the dialectic at work.

How could Sharia Law be instituted if people didn't believe "Its what God Commands"?

Relgion is the oldest form of mind control, and like all forms of despotism, it is constantly catering to peoples willingness to be decieved and irresponsible in exchange for structure and security.

[Starjade]

Quote:Pizzaman777 says: I would love to see a "debate royale" between Starjade the Prophet and CyrustheShepard. I bet that could go on for hundreds of pages....:crazy:

:rolleyes: Who is he then. Whats his religion. If he is Christian or Muslim then already he is powerless. Go tell him about me and tell me about him. :rolleyes:Is he a religious scholar. ?

[Starjade]

Quote:Naila you asked: Who here is in a position to know whether those original revelations to Mohammed took place, and can prove they didn't?

Starjade says: Muhammad has no revelations and he claims that all his so called revelations came from the mouth of the fabricated Angel Gabriel who never existed before the mention by the character Luke. (Or as proclaimed by the Roman Christians.) However, that so called Angel Gabriel appeared to give authenticity to Jesus so it is written by the Roman Christians and Mad Muhammad claims the Angel Gabriel told Muhammad that he was that Porphet that God promised Moses he would raise up whiles about 1000 years earlier or whenever it was the Angel called Gabriel had already given authenticity to Jesus who had already claimed he was that Prophet making Muhammad’s tale unbelievable and in error.

Deuteronomy Chapter 19 verse 15 law is a law that determines the truth regarding crimes of iniquity and sin. You need two or three witnesses to establish a matter as being true. Muhammad has no witnesses and so according to Deuteronomy law Chapter 19 verse 15 the words of Muhammad are not true. Hence he invented his claimed revelations by voicing his own opinion and pretending that they were words gotten from this Angel Gabriel. Muhammad has clearly been caught out in a lie.

Quote:Naila you asked: I can't wait to make the acquaintance of one with such exalted knowledge. (Caution: subsequent corruption and co-optation of Islam will not be accepted as valid evidence.)

Starjade doth say; Deuteronomy law is a law brought down by Moses himself and all Jews Muslims and Christians are then bound by those laws of Moses as they base their religion on the Old Testament. So that law is valid in all religions. When speaking with Muslims I also invoke Islamic law as Muslims are bound by those laws like it or not and those laws also confirm all of my statements are true. Those laws also protect my right to speak openly about Islam and Muslims will respect that. They are also bound by the conclusions of both Deuteronomy law and Islamic law. And my Revelations hence force Muslims to convert from Islam. Unless of course they were not real Muslims in the first place.

A real Muslims knows exactly what I am talking about.

[Starjade]

lovelyk you said; That would be a waste of time. No one can convince the other if they are not willing to learn. Like someone said, You know the truth when you see one. Will to know, to learn, to accept always lead to the truth. [/quote]

Starjade say; I know and believe religious law and common sense does prevail and the truth will be accepted. I quote religious laws because certain religious people are bound by those laws and those laws show the truth and if they are bound by those laws then they become bound by its conclusions.

[Starjade]

Quote:deathstickboy you said; Considering that his revelations were given to him by the Angel Gabriel, which can be traced back to the mingling of the Jews with Chaldean Angelic cults and Zoroastrianism in Babylon, its fairly safe to imagine that prophent mohammad was indeed not actually speaking to "a messenger of God" and if anything he would have had to have been a well practiced occultist to even have the knoweldge and means of how to "communicate" with such "intelligences".

Starjade says: The first mention in history of the Angel Gabriel came from the character Luke in the Christians New Testament. In later history it implied the Angel Gabriel appeared before but that is not true. The Angel Gabriel originated by the Roman Christians character Luke and done so to give some form of religious authenticity to their tales. Done as Mathew said in Chapter one so it might be believed to be the fulfilment of the Prophecy made by Isaiah. Too bad their claim of this Angel Gabriel is not backed up by witnesses or history.

Quote:deathstickboy you said; That is to say, if they are not merely "made up".

Starjade say; Trust me all tales about this Angel Gabriel are made up. And what is more it was the Romans with the help of some Jews who wrote out the tale of this Angel Gabriel some 500 years after the New Testament characters had been claimed to have lived and died. So the Angel Gabriel originated by the word of the Romans inventing a tale about Jesus to make it appear the long awaited Deuteronomy Chapter 18 verses 15/18 Prophet had arrived when he had not in fact history already established the tale of Jesus to be untrue as I have often shown in my Revelations.

Quote:deathstickboy you said; I know this is from a judeo-christian angle, but it applies just as well to Islam, really.

Starjade says: Muhammad had many Christians wives and when he came back from the Cave he went to his wifes cousin who was also a Christian. He was called Waraqa bin Nawful bin Asad al-uzza, apparently Waraqa was a blind old man who had embraced Christianity in the pre Islamic period. When Muhammad told Waraqa what had happened in the cave, Waraqa said that was the Angel Gabriel who is entrusted with the divine secrets that Allah had sent to Moses.

Starjade says; This is Islamic history and what started Muhammad believing he was that Deuteronomy Prophet being visited by the Angel Gabriel. Soon after that it is claimed Muhammad met the Angel Gabriel on the Mountain where this Angel Gabriel told him he was that Prophet that God promised Moses he would raise up.

Of course whiles sat around the camp fire with no telly all they had to do was listen to religious tales and we all know how some fanatics go all loony on religious matters and before long Muhammad had believed in Jesus and was a wannabe.

But Christians always speak of Jesus as being the son of God and not of Jesus claiming he was that Deuteronomy Chapter 18 verses 15/18 prophet which is what Jesus claimed himself to being that is why Jesus is called the King of the Jews. So Muhammad did not realise that whiles he believed in Jesus he was then proclaiming himself to being the very prophet that he believed Jesus to be without even realising. Hence the 11 Chapters of errors in the Koran and in the claims of Muhammad. Muhammad did climb up that Mountain because he knew he had gone mad. Which is another fact of Islamic history.

Quote:deathstickboy you said; Its a real bitch when your religious beliefs don't have reality on their side, but in truth, if you want to claim that Mohammad was really "visited by a messenger of God" the burden of proof is on you.

Starjade doth say; You speak such words of truth. And I can tell you tales of Muslims and Christians who’s teeth gnash to this very day after realising my Revelations. Nobody bothered to point out the facts to them before for they all sat and listened to their hell fire preachers. They never bothered to actually read their own religious doctrines. And they all have the gall to think that they are religious. I call it most lazy and now I am demanding an account from them and they are always at a loss for words. I demand proof and yet I know none exist and yet when they go looking thinking proof exists and find none then they are silenced with astonishment with much food for thought. It is a better reaction when it is all discovered by their religious scholars who did not know either. Yet the burden of proof is upon them for they are bragging the brag and preaching it as they go. But their words are not true or enlightened and just as empty as a bag of wind.

Quote:deathstickboy you said; However, anthropolgy and even a minor understanding of occultism basically destroys the entire premise, but I'm sure that won't stop you from clinging to your precious myths.

Starjade says: Those who live and die by their religion cling the most. Yet it is said the truth will set you free. But they have found themselves chained all the more.

[Starjade]

Quote:Naila you said; The revelations of God reach us in a different dimension, safe from the futile contortions of the mind. It's not "safe" for the mind to assume anything at all about things it can't fathom, because they speak directly to the heart (assuming one's heart is open to such things).

Starjade says; There are many who claim revelations from god and yet are found to be liars and frauds. Note when I speak it is of facts and not to the heart but to the thinking mind. It is not hard to present facts so there is no doubt a thing is true or not. Yet the way you speak was as if revelations are things not to be understood taking away the very word Revelation which is a Revelation that is to be understood.

Those so called revelations that are cryptic are from those who are presumptuous to think they could speak in Gods name which is why they make no sense. A Prophet from the living God is usually most clear in his Revelations and if you doubt that then read some more of what I say and ignore all others. After all to me the living God said you must hearken.

Quote:Naila you said; Just ask Jesus, St. Theresa, St. John of the Cross, Martin Luther King, and others who'd still be tripping on the first step of the mountain if their inspirations from the Creator had to be explained to the satisfaction of logical positivists.

Starjade say; I laugh when I hear of people say they spoke with Jesus. Mad as hatters all of them. Talking to long dead people some of which you named never existed is not very sensible. Jesus is a fraud. Do not trust a Christians word especially you alter boys as you bend down to pray and sing for Jesus. The trouble in your statement is your belief in the on the mountain those things happened when they clearly did not. They were Just tales intent to decieve and beguile.

[Starjade]

Quote:deathstickboy you say; You cannot reconcile the fact that the purported revelations come from an "Angel", and all that entails with an actual understanding of the mysticism behind it.

Starjade say; Before believing in Angels be sure that Angel really did exist in reality and did not come from the mind of mans overactive imaginations for the purpose of deceit.

Quote:deathstickboy you say; Nor the fact that there is nothing original in said "revelations". That doesn't mean one cannot derive some satisfactory personal message of "spiritual truth" from them, but there is no basis to claim that they are "original and particular revelations of The Creator to his Prophet", other than the fact that the prophet claims it.

Starjade doth say; in my case I can be established by Deuteronomy Chapter 19 verse 15 law to be a genuine Prophet with a provable connection to the living God. The Living God himself said to me you should hearken and so when I give Revelations you can be sure they are all true and often mind blowing. I do not need any angels to back up my Crown. I use God’s word and all Deuteronomy laws are the actual word of the living God.

So then how come the false prophets Jesus and Muhammad cannot be established by Deuteronomy law. Of course they are frauds and that is why and that is why the writers of the tale introduce the Angel Gabriel who is already in history is claimed to proclaim both Jesus and Mad Muhammad as being that same Deuteronomy Chapter 18 verses 15/18 Prophet that God promised Moses he would raise up.

Starjade doth say; In case some of you have lost the plot. The Living God promised only to raise up one Deuteronomy Chapter 18 verses 15/18 Prophet. So logic states that either Jesus or Muhammad or both would have to be lying. Adding even further errors in the Koran and the 11 Chapters of the Koran and the claims of Jesus and Muhammad. How sad a blow for Islam that Muhammad also claims the Koran to be the actual word of the mouth of this Angel Gabriel. Adding to their downfall.

Quote:deathstickboy you say; When you take time to understand that religions are created by illuminist mystical orders in the first place, as yet another means of elite organization of society, things become quite clear.

Starjade says: The Romans saw how the arrival of that Deuteronomy Prophet would bring power over the Jews as well as taxes. They had to have help from the Jews also. So that was their take and the Jews have built Golden Calves and were always an impatient people so it is of no surprise. They even fell for the deceptions of Sabbatai Zevi another false claimant to the Deuteronomy Prophecy.

Starjade says; I am the only Deuteronomy Chapter 18 verses 15/18 Prophet in existence who can be established by Deuteronomy Chapter 19 verse 15 laws. That is why I can brag the brag and walk the walk and talk the talk. You see I am genuine.

As for Mad Muhammad lunacy and schizophrenia and ego tripping sent him on one with his claims. But had a religious expert like myself been in those times it would be a simple thing to establish Muhammad was a fraud. Why look those Muslims dare not attempt to defend islam from My Revelations because already they know I will eat them all for breakfast.

Quote:deathstickboy you say; For example, the amusing fact that Gabriel is favored by Muslims, and Michael by Christians, is just one example of the dialectic at work.

Starjade says; Oh yes I love catching Muslims and Christians in the Angel Gabriel trap. This Angel Gabriel sent to authenticate the birth of Jesus and John the Baptist. How convenient and then Muhammad latched onto it with his own fabricated tales and suddenly it is fantasy time. Too bad the Angel Gabriel they speak of has claimed so it is claimed/ both Jesus and Muhammad as being that very same Prophet. Even though God only promised to raise up one Prophet as it shows either Jesus or Muhammad are liars and frauds just as it can be seen so is this fabricated Angel Gabriel. God only promised to raise up one Prophet not two. Now do any of you think a real Angel sent from God would contradict the Living Gods word when God say he will raise up one Deuteronomy Prophet to Moses and this Angel Gabriel is said to proclaim two. It is hardly rocket science that the Angel Gabriel is of mankinds making and fabricated for purpose of deceit.

Quote:deathstickboy you say; How could Sharia Law be instituted if people didn't believe "Its what God Commands"?

Starjade say; All Muslims brag they follow Islamic law and so that binds them. The Arabs are descendants of Abraham and are bound by Deuteronomy law which also binds them. If they ignore such laws then they are not religious people or who they think or claim themselves to be.

Quote:deathstickboy you say; Relgion is the oldest form of mind control, and like all forms of despotism, it is constantly catering to peoples willingness to be decieved and irresponsible in exchange for structure and security.

Starjade says: Yes that is true but the Old Testament is genuine and has already come true by the arrival of the real Deuteronomy Chapter 18 verses 15/18 Prophet the much loved Deuteronomy Doomsday Prophet Starjade. I have already approached the Jews way back in 1995 with details of the apocalypse with a view to an Exodus. So that Old Testament Prophecy has come true and at a Time when all the many Biblical Prophesied signs in the heavens were prophesied to appear in conjunction with each other. So the Old Testament is authentic. Christianity and Islam are not.

Proof that I have approached the Jews with a view to that Exodus and the building of the third Temple can be found in the 1995 December issue of the Kabbalist Magazine that went world wide to millions of other Jews. So they have already been warned.

I did not know at that Time about Sabbatai Zevi and did not realised how that would be affecting the Israelite Jews. When I found out about that the next Jew I spoke to was the rabbi Chaim Richman. And some other Jews. All Israelites.

The Living God made Covenants with all descendants of Abraham. After speaking with the Israelites I then went looking for the Ishmaelite hence my sudden appearance to the Muslims for today’s Ishmaelite are the Arabs and they are the ones who are held to an account over the Golden Calf the Koran. So now you know why I became such an expert on the fabricated Islamic religion. And do note I can now use Islamic law and the verses of the Koran to force those Arabs to convert.

Of course Abraham did have more than two sons so when I can I will search them out.

Whiles speaking of the descendants of Abraham who clearly have all broken their Covenant that they had with the Living God. In Today’s world all I need is D.N.A and I can re create the human race and fill that bio sphere Third Temple. I do not need the jews who are descendants of Abraham to be able to still fulfil the Living Gods Prophecy.

So understand I do not need them nor need to tolerate them breaking their Covenant with the Living God. I think outside the box. They all need me and it is not the other way around. Remember that Blasphemy laws means I can stone them all to their deaths in earthquake rubble. That is the price they will all pay for breaking their Covenant. And I am someone who is in a powerful position to Judge them which as you can see is exactly what I am doing and I can enforce religious law simply by remaining silent and leave them all to die in earthquake rubble.

After all those years of waiting do you really suppose that is what they all want.

[bando]

Bando sayeth: "What starjade says is true, at least about bewaring of false prophets. :wink:"

ah crud now he's got me doing the sayeth thing. But seriously people, beware of false prophets and of course ugly belly dancers. :dance:

[Starjade]

Quote:Bando sayeth: "What starjade says is true, at least about bewaring of false prophets. :wink:"

ah crud now he's got me doing the sayeth thing. But seriously people, beware of false prophets and of course ugly belly dancers. :dance:

:D Well it wasnt me who started warning of false Prophets. Clearly with all these Christians and Muslims the congregations did not hearken.

Being careful of ugly belly dancers is also good sound advice. :)

[Starjade]

:P So what happened to those (cough) Islamic experts and religious scholars then. Starjade grows impatient. But then I oft have to wait whiles a Muslims trys and think of some explanation to a Revelation he has no answer for. I suppose for them it is easier to be a sheep than a Shepherd. I wrote a poem about Muslims who suddenly replied with that deafening sound of silence. Anyone wanna hear it while we wait for Muslims to stop shirking and attempt to defend Islam from my powerful Revelations. It could be a whiles after all they are in between a rock and a Starjade place.

What Muslim could respond a sound reply to the Angel Gabriel thingy. What can they do about the beliefs and claims of mad Muhammad and of Jesus who are both claiming that they are that specific Deuteronomy Chapter 18 verses 15/18 Prophet that God promised Moses he would raise up in the midst of the Jews. The Living God only promised to raise up one Prophet. Ooops that is a silly mistake in the Koran and the claims of Muhammad isnt it. How can any Muslim scholar or not reply. They are powerless against my revelations as I did say in the beginning. Now you all see I was not just bragging but was and can and still am able to back up my mouth.

And what can any follower of Islam do. I have them all by the short and curlies and they were the one who dared to challenge me. :rolleyes: They cannot even make accusations of blasphemy against me because Deuteronomy Chapter 19 verses 15 law states that I am not guilty of any crime of iniquity or sin in the claims I have been making which as you see I certainly can back up. And it was the Muslims themselves who came online and challenged me to challenge Islam and under Islamic law that very law that can be used to force Muslims to reject the Koran and the claims of mad Muhammad. Phew no wonder those Muslims dare not face me.

And how funny is that and note that Jesus and Mad Muhammad both claim that they are that Deuteronomy Chapter 18 verses 15/18 prophet that God promised Moses he would raise up in the midst of the Jews.

Note that I do not make claims but have outright said that it can be established by the law of Deuteronomy Chapter 19 verses 15 onwards that I am a genuine Prophet with a provable connection to the living God who has already approached the Jews with details of an ever nearing apocalypse with a veiw to an Exodus from the four corners of the globe to await a new land that I have promised them.

Deuteronomy law is the actual word of the Living God.

Jesus and Mad Muhammad cannot satisfy the law of Deuteronomy Chapter 19 verses 15 because they have no witnesses to their claims. Ah the poor ikkle false pretenders to my Throne they just cannot walk in my shoes. :P talk about conspiracies lies and deceptions. And that Islamic sound of silence speaks volumes so as you Muslims are clearly afraid to dare to take me on then go tell your Imam what I have said. Get a printout so he can see. Dare him to come online and bring along as many Islamic scholars as he dares. bring everyone after all the whole yes the whole of Islam is clearly powerless against my Revelations and be certain that you will all bite the Dust as many in the past so very many bit the Dust long before you.

Otherwise simply admit defeat.

Others who are congregations not followers of Islam are learning things that will make them powerful against islam. Dont you want to have your say. :rolleyes: Of course you know I know already all of the things that you might come out with and so denial is futile conversion is what Islamic law says that you must. Islamic law and even the Koran says you must reject the Koran and the claims of Mad Muhammad.

(sigh) looks like you Muslims are in something of a religious dilema for Muslims challenged me and be certain now that you Muslims are not going to just walk away. I am demanding an account from you. Reply or be shamed as being Kuffar (ones who hide the truth) Shirkers.

[Shinobi]

No one is going to take you serious
In a few days your head will probably boil lol.

[Starjade]

Quote:No one is going to take you serious
In a few days your head will probably boil lol.

Oh you can be sure that I am taken seriously by Muslims Christians and Jews alike. However, there are very few religious scholars here anyways and those that are here are Kuffar Shirker Muslims who were powerless to defend Islam anyways.

Mmm actually that sounds like most Muslims world wide. Most are chickens others are sheep and it is clear they all come from wimpies. :rolleyes:

Why even their Islamic scholar they bragged the brag about has been tooo afraid to turn up. No matter as i shall remember his name and chase him up another time. :LOL: There isnt anything any Muslim can do to defend Islam from me and most Muslims know that and those who did not know yet encounter me in religious debate soon find how powerless they are against my Revelations.

That is why I am the challenger and why I can brag the brag and talk the talk and walk the walk and all who come up against me always bite the Dust. And do not forget I do so like to put up some evidence of how powerless Islam is against me up front and in their faces. You saw me do that here and i said so very little and yet enough to destroy the claims of Islam and the Koran and of Mad Muhammad.

And as was agreed by Muslims i do that under Islamic law which you also have seen me invoke which forces Muslims who bite the Dust to reject the Koran and the claims of Muhammad and so how shallow then is Islam in the shadow of my wake.

Come on Muslims face the truth and say after me. Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb and Islam bites the Dust. :rolleyes::D


And do not forget to tell your Imams and religious scholars about me. Just in case they are amongst the few who did not know. :rolleyes:

[aux]

Quote:

Quote: deathstickboy you said; Considering that his revelations were given to him by the Angel Gabriel, which can be traced back to the mingling of the Jews with Chaldean Angelic cults and Zoroastrianism in Babylon, its fairly safe to imagine that prophent mohammad was indeed not actually speaking to "a messenger of God" and if anything he would have had to have been a well practiced occultist to even have the knoweldge and means of how to "communicate" with such "intelligences".

Starjade says: The first mention in history of the Angel Gabriel came from the character Luke in the Christians New Testament. In later history it implied the Angel Gabriel appeared before but that is not true. The Angel Gabriel originated by the Roman Christians character Luke and done so to give some form of religious authenticity to their tales. Done as Mathew said in Chapter one so it might be believed to be the fulfilment of the Prophecy made by Isaiah. Too bad their claim of this Angel Gabriel is not backed up by witnesses or history.

You're joking right?

Daniel 8:16 And I heard a man's voice between [the banks of] Ulai, which called, and said, <span style="color:#FFFF66">Gabriel, make this [man] to understand the vision.

And for a moment I actually thought we had a true, real life prophet from God in our midsts. No really.

Btw, Daniel was held captive in Babylon in 2nd century BC and was head of the magi there and had massive power from ol' King Nebbie. It's no great wonder that the angel was co-opted up by various cults there as all pagan cults are notorious for doing.

I'm not here to get into a debate (too busy) I don't spend much time on the net actually. Sorry can't play with y'all for now.

Peace in Lord Jesus.

[deathstickboy]

Quote:It's no great wonder that the angel was co-opted up by various cults there as all pagan cults are notorious for doing.

LoL!!
You got that ass backwards there my friend. :wink: