The Sura 4:82 Challenge To All Muslims.

[Starjade]

Quote:Starjhade say; Jesus was a fabricated fraud and not an actual real person who ever lived. He was not the son of god or a man or gods prophet. Remind yourself that we were discussing this Angel Gabriel that they fabricated in order to promote their character Jesus as being that long awaited Prophet that the living God promised Moses he would raise up in the midst of the Jews. That was the very reason why they called Jesus the King of the Jews. Now when it is proven that this Angel Gabriel is also a fraud then that also shows the story of the birth of Jesus is also a fabricated fraud. Of mans invention.

Quote:Aux you say; “Whiles we are speaking of biblical statements we should stick to biblical statements and not get side tracked…” You can feebly attack the foretold Prophet, Priest, and Messiah Jesus all day long, we already know you don’t accept Christ, but stating your opinion as if it was backed with any authority just goes to the heart of the delusion you’ve decided to wallow in.

Starjade says: Ooo aren’t you getting tetchy. I stated Deuteronomy Chapter 19 verse 15 law and demanded you produce two or three actual witnesses for Jesus being born or for Jesus curing anyone or flying off to heaven or being tempted by the Devil. Show those witnesses that do not exist. You have ready the New Testament which is a book of hearsay testimony and that is not acceptable by religious law. At no Time was I just voicing opinion.

By the way. The Christ is a Fruit that grows upon the Tree of knowledge in the Garden of Eden. The fruit grows at the base of the Tree and is known in mystical circles as being the Sacred Key to Heaven and Hell. It is the Red and White Fly Agaric mushroom the Amanita Muscaria.

[Starjade]

Quote:Aux you said; You do realize I could say the exact same thing you just did and change the focus to Moses right? In fact you can probably find millions of people who think Moses was just the figment of some Rabbi’s imagination. The fact is, there’s tons more evidence for the historical person of Christ outside the bible then there is for Moses (and even more modern famous persons).. oh, but realizing that might actually take us back down to reality, can’t have that now, not if we want to play dress up and go around referring to ourselves in third person as a biblical Prophet.

Starjade doth say; In the first instance when you speak of the Christ to me I know the Christ is a mushroom and so if you have some comment to make about that fraud Jesus then please do mention his name so there is no misunderstanding.

As for Moses. He was adopted by the Pharaohs daughter. The Koran mistakenly claims it was the Pharaohs wife. As a matter of historical fact it was Nefure Hatshepsut who adopted Moses and a statue is said to exist in Thebes I believe of Nefure Hatshepsut holding a baby boy. She did not sire any male Children. Another fact is that Nefure Hatshepsut’s father Tutmoses I. was not a ruling Pharaoh but was a co regent Pharaoh.

As the complicated story goes the dates being uncertain and only approximates.
Thutmoses 1 /Amenhotep 1 was called Pharaoh but was co regent to Pharaoh Ahmosis who lived in Thebes in Memphis. The Pharaoh Ahmosis was the main ruler of Egypt and so Thutmoses 1 /Amenhotep 1. would only be the main ruling Pharaoh after the death of the Pharaoh Ahmosis.

Thutmoses 1 /Amenhotep 1. had heard the rumours of how troubles would come to Egypt from the Hebrew nation and so he ordered the deaths of all the first born sons to prevent that event from ever occurring. However oddly one year would pass and those sons of the Hebrew nation would be allowed to live and then the next year the first born was to die. So they alternated these deaths this way so as not to create more problems for them selves. Aaron the brother of Moses was born in the year that those first born were to be saved and Moses was born in the year that those first born were to die. So his mother placed him in a basket and set him lose to fate on the Nile. His sister followed the basket and saw the Pharaohs daughter Nefure discover the babe and she decided to keep the child and adopt it.

Nefure was the only surviving daughter of Thutmoses 1 / Amenhotep 1. Nefure she convinced her father to make her little adopted child Moses his future heir. So Moses was set up to become the future King of all Egypt. Moses became known as Senmut which means mothers brother. It is a named derived from the tale of Osiris and Horus but I will not be talking about that. Historians studies show that Moses came to live in the palace at about 12 years Old about the same Time that his adopted Grandfather Thutmoses 1 / Amenhotep 1. became main emporer over the whole of Egypt. At this Time they had moved from the palace at Memphis where the Co regent ruled and went to Thebes where the main Palace was.

At about the age of 18 Moses was designated the future heir apparent with his mother Nefure as his regent. She was now given the additional royal name of “Hatshepsut” and was then referred to as Queen instead of princess. Once someone was designated as the future heir to the throne his inscriptions refer to him as “King”. Moses was elevated to this position of heir apparent when he was 24 years old. When Moses became about 33 years old he was designated as being the Crown Prince and became known as Thutmoses 11. The numbers after the Egyptian Kings names are simply designations given to them by Egyptologists to identify each succeeding person of the same name. When Moses was 40 he killed an Egyptian and so as history claims Moses had to flee Egypt.

To prevent the loss of the Crown to another family Thutmoses 1 / Amenhotep 1. who clearly was still alive otherwise Moses would have been crowned King Pharaoh. Thutmoses 1 / Amenhotep 1. married his daughter off to her younger half brother Thutmose who became called Thutmose the 11 and that was how Nefure Hatshepsut became married.

She never sired any sons. So Aux Egyptian history does authenticate Moses without the need of you thinking it is only writ about in the Old Testament. Egyptian history does confirm those stories. It is not usual Egyptian practice to depict losing battles on their Hieroglyphics even though some do exist.

[Starjade]

Quote:I do not play games when it comes down to religion.

Quote:Aux you said; Oh aye! Me neither, so from now on you have to call me the Tooth Fairy.

Starjade says; So that is why you keep trying to pull the other one.

[Starjade]

Quote:Starjade says; The character Luke was the very first to mention any Angel Gabriel.

Quote:Aux you said; Ok, so you like word games, fine, just don’t bring them into matters of interpreting scripture to somehow build new doctrines so you can start a cult. Luke was the first to refer to Gabriel as an angel, and biblical standard (in this case language and roles) categorizes Gabriel from the book of Daniel as an angel. Likewise, even if Luke had failed to refer to Gabriel as an angel, it would still be clear to everyone without an agenda that he was an angel. The two mentions are either the same person, or there are two angels named Gabriel.

Starjade says: I know the Christians believe Daniel was speaking of an Angel and that is where they got their tale of the Angel Gabriel fabricated from. But read Daniel and see he was not speaking of any Angel but only of a man that he had dreamed. Now you see why I mentioned Daniel in the first place for that is the origin of the name but the origin of the Angel called Gabriel started with the fabricated tales of Luke and at all Times where his character narrates that story it is obvious that the character Luke was not a witness to this so called Angel called Gabriel that he is claimed to be writing about. (even though we all know it is another writer writing in those tales.) Those pesky Romans eh.

Quote:Starjade doth brag; Hard as it may be for you to grasp, I am something of a religious expert in my own right.

Quote:Aux you say; Well you would have to be, being the great Prophet of Deuteronomy and all.

Starjade doth braggeth; Start reading all the things I say and you can see what I know is most astonishing. I can walk the walk and talk the talk.

[Starjade]

Quote:Starjade says; The character Luke was written in long after that character was said to have lived and died and it was written in by the Romans. So they could say whatever they liked. Would you say Sherlock Holmes existed simply because somebody wrote a story about that character. ? Do you then also believe all those tales were real simply because some writer wrote the tale as if it was. Well it is simple fiction. The Romans were most deceitful.

Quote:Starjade did say “Whiles we are speaking of biblical statements we should stick to biblical statements and not get side tracked into conversations of what others yackle on”

Quote:Aux you said; Again, you’re whole (ill-informed) premise could be applied to Moses. Casting aspersions is easy, it means nothing here. You’re personal thoughts have no biblical authority or bearing on reality.

Starjade says; The Jews were still marching off to the promised land and still writing at that time and so they are covered by it being their own history. Christianity though was fabricated and the New Testament did only come about hundreds of years after the death of its portrayed characters. So that fact is relevant to the Romans who were the ones writing and fabricating the New Testament. And they had to have help from some Jews.

[Starjade]

Quote:Aux you say; I don’t care about the Satanic hoax known as Islam in this discussion. But you seem to suggest the whole of the faith in Jesus Christ as the savior of mankind hinges on the single idea that an angel heralded his birth. Surely you’re not that naïve (I wouldn’t hold my breath though).

Starjade says; I am holding my breath with the staggerimng ammunition I will fire at you at a later Time. The fact is this Angel Gabriel was said to have appeared to give authenticity to the birth of John the Baptist and Jesus. Both main characters in the Christians new Testament. However, as there is no evidence of any Angel Gabriel then that shows the rest of the evidence is a fraud also and all of those testimonies are established as being untrue by Deuteronomy Chapter 19 verse 15 law in the first place because they are hearsay testimonies said to be writ and narrated by a character who was not a witness to those events.

Quote:Aux you say: I don’t know anyone who believes in Christ just because Gabriel made an announcement, nor just because Jesus fulfilled the Deuteronomy prophecy long ago, but rather for a combination of the many hundreds (thousands?) of reasons, so many in fact, I doubt I’ll ever exhaust them all; the foreshadowing events, religious observances, rituals, and prophecies that he, Jesus Christ, fulfilled on earth, as well as all the extra biblical evidence in an array of disciplines underpinning the accounts, in both Testaments.

Starjade doth say; In the first instance the Angel Gabriel and the birth of Jesus are all a part of the beginnings of the believe our bull dump of the Christians. Ah the poor ikkle baby Jesus. You may not know of anyone but I know of these things called Christians who believe all of that Gabriel and baby born tale. Ever heard of the thing called Christmas. They do both kinda get a lot of mentions then. Deuteronomy Chapter 19 verse 15 law doesn’t get mentioned of course until I came along now everyone is getting to know religious law even in their sleep.

It is as Mathew said in Chapter one writ so it might be believed to be the fulfilment of a Prophecy made by Isaiah regarding a virgin birth. Psssst. Wanna hear of another startling virgin birth. Read this…..
At the beginning of the Jewish civil New Year, which began in September 1996 until Passover of 1999, a very rare Sign appeared above Jerusalem in the heavens of space. The new Moon rose from the horizon directly in the constellation of Virgo and it moved within 24 hours to the feet of this constellation. The Sun was just below the horizon and its rays seemed to clothe the Virgo woman with the Sun.

This configuration of the constellation of Virgo giving birth to the new Moon has not occurred in the Past before and it will not occur again for over 11,ooo years because of the precession of the Equinoxes, and it is not likely to ever appear again in conjunction with the many other prophesied Signs in the heavens. The new Moon is very significant to Talmudic Jews because it is the basis of their calendar systems and it is also a symbolic representative of the Messiah, who is that long awaited Doomsday Prophet that the living God has promised Moses he would raise up.

This event of the maiden giving birth to the new Moon fulfilled another Prophecy by Isaiah Chapter 7 Verse 14: Therefore the Lord God himself shall give you a sign. Behold a Virgin shall conceive and bear a son and shall call his name Immanuel. Which being interpreted means God is with us. This prophesied Prophet could only appear when those specific Signs in the heavens occurred in conjunction with each other. I am the only Prophet in existence who has appeared when all those prophesied Signs in the heavens took place. :rolleyes:

[Starjade]

Quote:Starjade says: Jesus has not fulfilled any Deuteronomy Prophecy. I have though.

Oh and by the way when exactly do you think that fraud Jesus satisfied this Prophecy made by Isaiah?
Isaiah 11:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.

Isaiah 11:12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth. :rolleyes:

[Starjade]

That wasnt even possible for the fraud Jesus to fulfil for the Jews were not then scattered to the four corners of the globe. That only happened during the world wars. Mmm i think i have mentioned this before and you avoided the reply then brag Jesus fulfilled all those Prophecies. Of course in your head maybe but not in real life.

[Starjade]

Would Jesus inherit David’s throne?

(a) Yes. So said the {cough) angel (Luke 1:32).

(B)No, since he is a descendant of Jehoiakim (see Matthew 1:11, 1 Chronicles 3:16). And Jehoiakim was cursed by God so that none of his descendants can sit upon David’s throne (Jeremiah 36:30).

Oooops there goes that piggin liar Gabriel eh?

[Starjade]

OK Aux i see you still have stuff left yet for me to read but my computer Time is out. Still you do have a dang good read dont you.

[aux]

As I said, there is nothing left for me to engage you on, you already lost but you're in denial of reality.

You also misrepresent what I say (I did not claim Moses wasn't real, but that others do just like you do with Jesus; I did not claim that Christ fulfilled all prophecies, but only those that apply up to our time, some are left for his return obviously – The book of Daniel gave the 69 weeks of years from the commandment to rebuild the temple, which Cyrus did, of when to expect the Messiah. Jews who don’t accept Christ hate that one. Case closed.)

You contradict yourself (telling me Jews don't believe in the angel Gabriel as some kind of proof, then tell me not to care what Jews think when I show you in fact some Jews do, more than a small minority I might add)

You're just dead wrong on several things.

Most importantly (and this is what I knew you would try to do to weasel out of the death blow I dealt you) the TRUMP CARD is when you fell on your own (dull) sword by claiming the OT had parts that were dubious and/or fabricated, thus UTTERLY undermining your own claim of authority (the OT). I believe the exact quote (after I decimated you petty argument) was: “As you claim unwittingly but we have only the writer’s word that Lot saw Angels. They also liked tall tales in their preaching’s in the Old Testament as well you know. I personally think that tale told was done from a moralizing viewpoint. Not from actual reality.”

Just as I said before, you either are insane or don’t even really believe the Old Testament, (maybe both?).


That’s it. Byebye. Turn out the lights, etc etc.

Oh, and you’re level of scholarship on the origins of the New Testament is on par with Dan Brown.


Peace in Christ Jesus.

[harmonius]

Quote:Starjade says; I am the teacher of knowledge not you. I am the challenger of many major religions not you. I have the most staggering and the most startling Revelations and have learned more than your mind could grasp even from before I stepped onto the path that I am travelling.

:D


MMM

[Starjade]

Quote:Starjade doth say; I challenge you to find any real evidence prior to Daniel of any Angel called Gabriel. Unless it is mentioned in the Old Testament then it does not exist for many have gotten onto the Angel Gabriel band wagon just as Mad Muhammad did.

Quote:Aux you said; Yeah and many false prophets have come and gone and many people have invented reasons to deny the Word of truth to misguide, Satan as the old serpent being the first. And excuse me, but I don’t need to find evidence prior to Daniel of Gabriel, I’m not even arguing that there is! What I have done is provide real Old Testament evidence prior to Daniel that refers to angels as men,

Starjade says; Admit then that you know there is no angel Gabriel anywhere in the Old testament and that it only exists in the Christians New Testament and in a format that stands against the law of Deuteronomy Chapter 19 verse 15 which states that the tale then must be untrue.

Yes there are instances where it is said that Angels have taken the form of man but before that they were identified as being Angels. Who had then transformed into man. Even in the Koran it mentions such a thing obviously because that is what gave them as with you the idea. But Daniel does not mention any Angels. Daniel has mentioned other men in his dreams do you also suggest that they are angels as well remind yourself that men are common things. Angels on this earth are not. Why even Lot was not asleep was he when he says he encountered some Angels.

Daniel was asleep describing his dream. The Christians only latched onto the idea of Gabriel being an Angel after the lions den thingy. Where as it happens Daniel does mention an Angel. But he does not speak of any Angel when he had his dream of a man calling another man by the name of Gabriel. Even the yackery that was then to be imparted was just blabbery that was not understood. But at no Time at all did Daniel speak of any Angel. Why ask yourself on occasion. That is because he was simply describing a man. Other wise he would have said an Angel because he has in past claimed visitation by an Angel in the Lions den and so such a description would not be hard to make. But in this dream he had he described a man.

Now if a Israelite Jew was in our midst he would say read the whole Old Testament for that is his religion. It was known only the End of Times Deuteronomy Prophet would know of the End of Times and no other. You can of course see maps of that End of Times as it affects this Planet on the End of Times web site as drawn up by that long awaited Deuteronomy Prophet.

Little facts like that escape the minds of man whiles they run into flights of fantasy regarding their false Prophets. Where is their description of those End of Times. Why could they not gather up the Jews from the four corners of the globe as they expect that Deuteronomy Prophet to do. Oh that is right the Jews were not gathered to the four corners of the globe making that an impossible thing for them to achieve and yet these little things are ignored as if insignificant so you can glorify a false Prophet who is already proven to be false by Deuteronomy Chapter 19 verse 15 law.

And just where is that new promised land of the Jews. ? They sure as hell did not know. Even Daniel did not know nor any other so called Prophet of God because they were not that Deuteronomy Chapter 18 verses 15/18 Prophet. Only that specific Prophet would know about the End of Times and any other who comes before me is just merely speculating for those past Times. Forget you not that a Prophet is only a Prophet if his Prophecies come true and many can claim Prophecy but in truth did they really Prophesy the future and did it really come to pass.

Starjade doth say; in all of your reading of religious doctrines and they way that they spoke even for their Times were they as open and as frank and persistently insistent in their flow of so called Revelations. Oft they did repeat each other as if that Prophecy was their own and still nothing was ever said so clear but hid as if some secret Revelation was being transcribed. Truth is much of what is said was said before. It reminds me as I yackle on this matter of a question I asked to Mahi who is a renowned religious scholar who had been teaching me his religion of Islam.

I asked him just what Prophecies did Muhammad prophesy regarding the End of Times. Mahi has a staggering religious knowledge and usually quick to answer but a silence prevailed and after many days where he had been researching the question to reply to me in full he said Muhammad said it would grow very dark. And Muhammad had the gall to claim that he was that long awaited Deuteronomy Chapter 18 verses 15/18 Prophet that the living God promised Moses he would raise up just before those End of Times.

[Starjade]

I speak of these things of course because in the yackle of Daniel and others there was that mention of the for at the time of the end shall be the vision. Yet what were they babbling about. Not the End of Times surly for to know what went on during those apocalyptic Times it would be obviously important to have seen the event to have that insight. Neither Jesus or Muhammad or any past Prophet had ever seen those apocalyptic End of Times and they were merely speculating and hiding that reality behind cryptic words to leave a mind wondering just what the frell was all that about.

Only the long awaited Deuteronomy Chapter 18 verses 15/18 Prophet would know what went down during those End of Times and so grasp the fact that it is not who I am that matters it is what I know. And when I write I am graphic and descriptive not like those so called Prophets of Biblical renown either from the Bible or the Koran or some other god forsaken religious belief.

I further point out as if it mattered that it can be established already by the law of Deuteronomy Chapter 19 verses 15 and onwards that only I could be that long awaited Deuteronomy Chapter 18 verses 15/18 Prophet and this has already been established by Deuteronomy Chapter 19 verses 15 and onwards law.
It can be established for a fact that I am a genuine Prophet with a provable connection to the living God who has already approached the Jews with details of that apocalypse with a view to an Exodus of Jews from the four corners of the globe. And unlike the so called religious congregations I see all Jews as being descendants of Abraham and was intent on the gathering up of all those Jews from the four corners of the globe. Hence, I have already done that deed as was expected and as was Prophesied.

So then as Gods Prophet I can say to you that you are in error. Daniel was speaking of a man he had dreamed and not of any Angel. I can say Jesus and Muhammad are frauds because Deuteronomy laws already establish that I alone am that specific Deuteronomy Prophet and that same law establishes both Jesus and Muhammad to be frauds and false pretenders to my Throne. These facts accumulated also show the bullshit around the claims about this Angel Gabriel are not true.

I have shown you already that Lukes account is hearsay stories that are not established as being true and by Deuteronomy law and that fact shows their tale of this fabricated Angel Gabriel is a fraud that they have invented. Now there have been many tales of Angels appearing in the Old Testament and yet no mention of any Angel called Gabriel. You are speculating that if Lot says he saw two Angels who appeared as men then that must mean if someone dreams of a man then they are seeing angels and that is simply most silly.

[Starjade]

Quote:Aux you said; which is the crux of your failure to concede Gabriel in Daniel’s vision as being an angel, despite him fulfilling the meaning of the word and biblical history of what angels do as shown elsewhere in the bible. This is kindergarten level theology. You’re ignorance of this simple fact isn’t the benchmark for changing biblical doctrine to some perverted self-serving idea that wouldn’t make you a prophet even IF you were right.

Starjade says; as I have with foresight explained to you that already the law of Deuteronomy Chapter 19 verses 15 and onwards already does establish that I am a genuine Prophet with a provable connection to the living God. So then I can scoff at you voicing your opinion as if I needed to make some point by using something other than the religious law of Deuteronomy that binds all the Jews.

At this Time I should remind you that the Old Testament Prophecy is of the Jews religion and the long awaited Deuteronomy Prophet was coming here to save them and a few Alien residents. It does not say anywhere in that Old Testament Prophecy that the Deuteronomy Prophet was coming to save Christians or Muslims or any other followers of false religions. I just simply like to broaden my horizons and that Exodus of the Jews from the four corners of the globe would have woken up the rest of this Planet. So I already have my own plans in the mix and be certain I look at everything with back up plans just in case. I am what that Deuteronomy Prophet and Prophecy is all about.

So grasp the fact that I am right and all I am doing by exposing your false Prophets is saving you all from your own blasphemy and grinding down your golden calves. It is not a matter of biblical history that any time a man is mentioned it must be an Angel. That is plain silly. You mentioned Lot. But he at first spoke of the Angels. Daniel already had an encounter with an Angel in the lions den and so he would have said oh looky here I dreamed of an Angel. But he does not he emphatically describes a man and admits he was dreaming.


I add that you should all also note that when I stated for a fact that I was that long awaited Deuteronomy Chapter 18 verses 15/18 Prophet that I did not use any fabricated Angel Gabriel but outright showed the Angel Gabriel was a fraud. And instead to verify my statements I used the Old Testament law of Deuteronomy Chapter 19 verse 15 which is a law that binds all the Jews and is a law that judges and determines matters of the truth regarding any crime of iniquity or sin. A law brought down by Moses from the Living God himself and is therefore the actual word of the living God. I can be easily established by that specific law that binds all the Jews to be a genuine Prophet who does have a provable connection to the Living God. Now that is how things should be done.

Quote:Starjade said; I add that you should all also note that when I stated for a fact that I was that long awaited Deuteronomy Chapter 18 verses 15/18 Prophet that I did not use any fabricated Angel Gabriel but outright showed the Angel Gabriel was a fraud. And instead to verify my statements I used the Old Testament law of Deuteronomy Chapter 19 verse 15 which is a law that binds all the Jews and is a law that judges and determines matters of the truth regarding any crime of iniquity or sin. A law brought down by Moses from the Living God himself and is therefore the actual word of the living God. I can be easily established by that specific law that binds all the Jews to be a genuine Prophet who does have a provable connection to the Living God. Now that is how things should be done.