Disturbing Info On Ron Paul

[FighterFromAfar]

Quote:If these statements are bunk, it's time for us to really pour it on. Fight fire with fire in this case.

Careful how you quote me... not that I disagree with that sentence, but still.


Something happened with the MSNBC and ABC polls. We've won some battles. Now instead of Ron Paul being a "Dark Horse," there is an indication that he might actually be able to win if we get the word out about him. Of course it's an uphill battle, but it's one we must fight, because we need the anti-war, pro-Constitution point of view to be represented in the mainstream.

[rockclimber]

Quote:

Quote:If these statements are bunk, it's time for us to really pour it on. Fight fire with fire in this case.

Careful how you quote me... not that I disagree with that sentence, but still.


Something happened with the MSNBC and ABC polls. We've won some battles. Now instead of Ron Paul being a "Dark Horse," there is an indication that he might actually be able to win if we get the word out about him. Of course it's an uphill battle, but it's one we must fight, because we need the anti-war, pro-Constitution point of view to be represented in the mainstream.

wtf? Those were my words, not yours. I must have added that in the quotes, I will fix it. Sorry Mifune, honest mistake, sharp eye btw. ;)

[MC David]

Search through articles that Ron Paul himself has written, you won't find anything racist.

[JTGOB]

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:Aid for Hurricane Katrina Victims

NOTE: Paul’s own district, the 14th, has about 150 miles of coastline and was struck by Hurricane Rita a few weeks after Katrina inundated New Orleans.

"Is bailing out people that chose to live on the coastline a proper function of the federal government?” he asks. “Why do people in Arizona have to be robbed in order to support the people on the coast?" [Washington Post, 7/9/06]

I actually agree with that. Since when are people to rely on the federal government to bail them out of disaster? Did the government bail out all the farmers effected by the Dust Bowl? Or how about back before all this centralization, was Florida ever bailed out when it got hurricanes in the 1800's?

FEMA shouldn't exist. I can support some humanitarian efforts, but it isn't the federal governments job to give these people trailers and electricity after a hurricane.

He didn't pander to his own constituency. That shows character in my opinion.

did you think government response with Katrina was appropriate? What do you think should they have done?

P.S. I just realized how stupid your question was. Isn't the purpose of government to protect its own citizens? We are not superheroes afterall, we do need government for certain things like evacuating thousands of citizens out a flooded toxic wasteland or at least providing them with food and shelter don't we?

Looks like somebody is on the attack. :freaked:

If the government felt like helping them, they would've flown in water for those at the Superdome.

They didn't give a fuck. Probably felt they could use it as practice for martial law, and they did.

[LuisCyphre]

Quote:IMO all strongly centralized governments will turn into either fascism or despotism. Is there an example anywhere in the world of a strong centralized government not devolving into either of the two?

Politics isn't divided between the two, your putting words into my mouth because your argument is falling apart.

You're the one putting words into my mouth. I never advocated a "stong centralized government", I simply said "central planning" works. I believe in a market-based economy, but I also believe in social ownership. Certain things need to be protected from the self-interested calculations of the market, and certain infrastructures of the economy are best left to central planning like water and transportation. Central planning is fine as long as there is democratic input and as long its not all-pervasive.

By the way, you first have to understand my argument before you claim it's "falling apart"

Quote:Still your fantasy of a strong centralized democracy is laughable. Even a strong centralized communist country will eventually fall into dictatorship(Russia) or fascism(China). I don't believe in pure libertarianism, I believe in decentralized republicanism.

What exactly is "decentralized republicanism" and has it ever existed in reality? I have a sneaking suspicion you are contradicting yourself here, because no one except an anarcho-syndicalist perhaps can claim they believe some forms of "central authority" are never legitimate or necessary (the very fact that a state exists implies some form of coercion).


Seriously, you guys remind me so much of Marxist utopians, except you're the flip side (Marxists believe society can be run purely on communal values, libertarians believe in pure selfishness and individualism). The fact is you need a little of both (competition and cooperation) to create a decent society.

[FighterFromAfar]

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:If these statements are bunk, it's time for us to really pour it on. Fight fire with fire in this case.

Careful how you quote me... not that I disagree with that sentence, but still.


Something happened with the MSNBC and ABC polls. We've won some battles. Now instead of Ron Paul being a "Dark Horse," there is an indication that he might actually be able to win if we get the word out about him. Of course it's an uphill battle, but it's one we must fight, because we need the anti-war, pro-Constitution point of view to be represented in the mainstream.

wtf? Those were my words, not yours. I must have added that in the quotes, I will fix it. Sorry Mifune, honest mistake, sharp eye btw. ;)

No problem. Not to distract from the topic at hand, which is that we need to support Ron Paul.

[StingingNettle]

Quote:From the moment I first saw Ron Paul being billed as some kind of savior of the Republic over at Prison Planet, I began to have some nagging doubt in the back of my mind, like, this is too good to be true. I am wary of public figures who seem to rise out of nowhere.

I was wary of Glenn Beck when he made his entrance into talk radio, and in no-time flat, had himself a show on CNN.



However, I haven't seen anything from Ron Paul recently that would make me think he is racist. Maybe he has overcome those racist tendencies. I can't be certain.

Ron Paul has not risen out of no where. Just because you haven't heard of him until prison planet started writing on him. I have seen his writing for quite some time now. He's been at it for a long time.

[harflimon]

But central planning doesn't work, or it would of worked in New Orleans right? Please, you go back on what your saying and keep muddying the waters. Just give it a rest.

Only a few things should be left centralized:

Money; which should be the biggest power of our government, but they give it away to the banks

Transportation backbone

And some other things that I'm forgetting about at the moment. Definitely a legal system, but not in the fashion that they have right now. And the federal legal system should only have powers over human/civil rights and whatever the federal government has control of I.E. money

Decentralized Republicanism was one of the two major political ideologies when America was founded. Maybe you should study history. Or is the only time you've picked up a history book in High School? If you remember correctly it was between states right (decentralized republicanism) and the federalists (Strong Centralized government).

[FighterFromAfar]

Quote:

Quote:From the moment I first saw Ron Paul being billed as some kind of savior of the Republic over at Prison Planet, I began to have some nagging doubt in the back of my mind, like, this is too good to be true. I am wary of public figures who seem to rise out of nowhere.

I was wary of Glenn Beck when he made his entrance into talk radio, and in no-time flat, had himself a show on CNN.



However, I haven't seen anything from Ron Paul recently that would make me think he is racist. Maybe he has overcome those racist tendencies. I can't be certain.

Ron Paul has not risen out of no where. Just because you haven't heard of him until prison planet started writing on him. I have seen his writing for quite some time now. He's been at it for a long time.

I understand that. Of course, he voted against the War in Iraq. I was just initially skeptical because of his seemingly sudden appearance in the alternative media.

[shZ]

I haven't had a chance to read through this entire thread, but I'd rather have a president who's thinks I'm a sand****** than one who thinks I belong in a torture chamber or concentration camp. That's under the assumption that any of those quotes are actualy his and ignoring their context. That doesn't mean I think that assumption is necessarily true btw.

[rockclimber]

Quote:I haven't had a chance to read through this entire thread, but I'd rather have a president who's thinks I'm a sand****** than one who thinks I belong in a torture chamber or concentration camp. That's under the assumption that any of those quotes are actualy his and ignoring their context. That doesn't mean I think that assumption is necessarily true btw.

You know what kills me? The media is out digging up dirt on Ron Paul and pointing at racism when the media is the biggest bunch of racists out there. Right now and as you well know, who are THEY trying their damndest to make us hate?

Fuck them, their hypocrites as always.

[LuisCyphre]

Quote:But central planning doesn't work, or it would of worked in New Orleans right? Please, you go back on what your saying and keep muddying the waters. Just give it a rest.

Only a few things should be left centralized:

Money; which should be the biggest power of our government, but they give it away to the banks

Transportation backbone

And some other things that I'm forgetting about at the moment. Definitely a legal system, but not in the fashion that they have right now. And the federal legal system should only have powers over human/civil rights and whatever the federal government has control of I.E. money

I already told you why New Orleans sunk, but I guess I'll have to repeat myself again;

It's simple, see:

Costly war in Iraq + Bush tax cuts for top 5% income bracket means no money left over to fund levee projects and conduct an adequate rescue and relief response. That's why FEMA completely dropped the ball by the way, they were gutted by Homeland Security because of the shifting of disaster relief resources for the "war on terror".

I also use the term "central planning" very broadly, not in the sense you probably imagine (ie, top-down Soviet-style bureaucratic planning of the entire national economy). This I agree will lead to tyranny, which is why I advocate a decentralized, loosely federated system. The kind of "central planning" I imagine would be things like what I already mentioned; water, transportation, a national emergency response agency, perhaps an army but I'm not sure (I would prefer a network of worker militias but that may be too utopian), an environmental agency, and some other regulatory commissions probably. I am basically of the idea that people should be left alone, but that the government should not be without certain (clearly defined and limited) powers and responsibilities to protect the freedom and security of the invididual (security includes providing basic needs like water and healthcare, not just defending you from terrorists).

Quote:Decentralized Republicanism was one of the two major political ideologies when America was founded. Maybe you should study history. Or is the only time you've picked up a history book in High School? If you remember correctly it was between states right (decentralized republicanism) and the federalists (Strong Centralized government).

Sounds like a misnomer to me, I've heard of Federalism and anti-Federalism, but not "decentralized republicanism". I tend not to label myself anymore because I find the language is usually not adequate enough to explain exactly what you mean by certain words (everyone has a different interpretation, that's why words like "democracy" and "socialism" for example have become essentially meaningless today). It's better to outline the exact policies you are espousing than to just say, well i'm X this or X that.

[pursuitofliberty]

Just received this response from the Ron Paul Crew:

I sent this email:

Hello.

I am involved in independent peaceful 9/11 truth activist working in New York City with WeAreChange.org

We peacefully hold activist gatherings at The World Trade Center Saturdays 1pm-4pm & Hold monthly 9/11 marches around New York City the 11'th of every month. We display our information banners & sign, handing out free flyer's and dvds promoting 9/11 truth.

We currently have several banners on which we advocate citizens to Investigate 9/11. We would like to promote Ron Paul on our banners & hand out materials.

Indirectly, this may further associate Dr. Ron Paul with 9/11 truth. We understand that Dr. Ron Paul has implied his belief in 9/11 truth by his track record and statements. (see below for a quote from the alex jones show) We do not wish to discredit the name of Ron Paul, for we truly believe Dr. Ron Paul to be our only hope for America, for we know all too well the state of crisis our country and constitution are today. Because of this we seek your guidance in weighing the benefit to placing Ron Paul for President information on our materials.

A) May we / do you approve of the inclusion of Ron Paul for President 2008 - http://www.RonPaul2008.com text on our existing banners containing 9/11 truth information & links?

B) May we / do you approve of the creation of Ron Paul for President 2008 - http://www.RonPaul2008.com text on original banners solely promoting Ron Paul?

C) We currently have a brochure for 9/11 truth exposure. May we / do you approve of a section dedicated to Promoting Ron Paul for President in 2008, complete with the quotes of Ron Paul in action and his voting track record?

D) We would love for Dr. Ron Paul to visit New York at his first opportunity. If it is possible we would love to meet with him, as we have many important questions. We currently have space in Manhattan a few blocks away from the former world trade centers at 12 warren st., where we hold meetings & show free viewings of 9/11 material to the public. We would love to host Dr. Ron Paul at our humble location if he could possibly fit it into his schedule upon such a visit to NYC.

---------------------

Their response:

Matt,

You are free to do what you want, at your own expense and your own time.

However, we can not direct you in terms of what you spend on your own, what you do, due to FEC Regulations.

We are not supposed to know about it, or provide any guidance.

You can feel free to use any material you find our website.

[Dr.Druid]

Interesting thread. On the original post topic - Ron Paul is never going to win, the electronic voting system is going to see to that. And if he does win, then he's one of them. Or he'll be dead very soon afterwards.

The whole system is rotten to the core, decentralisation is the only way to stop the evolution of world government. There is NO reason for a centralised government - especially in America.

Decentralisation is the only way to defeat the enemy - and I know it's not going to happen. They'd rather nuke you all than concede that one.

However I'm with Harflimon and Skinski decentralised republicanism is very practical in theory and with the right safeguards - uncorroded.

Apart from this, we're all fucked. Democracy is a road leading to tyranny and if the system and people don't find another way, and the possibilties are as endless as imagination itself, then we're soon gonna all be slaves.

There's more chance of Arnie becoming president than Paul. After Billary that is - read the movie. It's easy when you try, Swarzenegger even went to Germany to speak with Rothchild about his future job. If he's gonna see a German to sway his chances, then who really controls America? The people? Mickey Mouse? Or the not so secret world establishment?

[Guest]

Quote:Interesting thread. On the original post topic - Ron Paul is never going to win, the electronic voting system is going to see to that. And if he does win, then he's one of them. Or he'll be dead very soon afterwards.

I tend to agree. I would also think that RP knows this as well. So I ask myself why run?