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faust · (This post was last modified: 09-24-2007 12:02 AM by faust.)

Quote:How is withdrawing from participation, positive? Why not try to inject some positivity if its so sorely needed?
Especially if it takes fuck all.

Trying being positive with fundamental theists (or atheists for that matter), does it get you anywhere?

Quote:Thats good to hear. Thanks for setting me straight. Its hard for me to know since he is no longer around to share his thoughts.

I think even if he were around to set thrings straight, you'd still try break his balls...

Quote:Thats rather condescending don't you think? How can anyone here attempt to analyze how constructive or destructive participation might be to to another person based solely on the posts the make here? Sure, there are some obvious examples, this thread is proof of it, but those examples are not the majority, and also reflect more about the state of the individual than the information and topics here themselves, wouldn't you say?

Was I talking about posts Bryce?

Quote:I try to do what I can Ben. If it takes fuck all, then what is there to be gained from not bothering to do anything at all?
Why must undermining a bullshit system of abusive authority be seen as negative?
This I do not understand.

So talking incessantly is seen as action is it? Talk the walk... Show me realistic strategies at undermining the bullshit system which are positive

Quote:However, its quite myopic to say that spreading information and increasing awareness "does nothing".
I find that statement so absurd, I'd like you to elaborate on it. Is it because "it can't change anything" because people will keep buying into lies from authority figures anyways, for a feeling of false security?
If so, thats a rather "negative" way to look at things IMO.

Did I not say "in the long run" fella? Were you too short sighted to see that little tit bit?

Quote:Looking around at the world we live in, how the fuck can you say "increasing awareness and information does nothing"? The rapid increase and spread of knowledge, all sorts, not just "conspiracy theory/truth movement" type knowledge, is rapidly altering our world. We live in the "information age" after all.
Just look at how human social networks have altered in the last few years alone, due to the internet.

How sophistic... Tell me what the fuck it does then Bryce, not in the sense of "general knowledge and awareness" but in the context of the position we're in regards to the nwo. What are "we" all doing with this knowledge and awareness as a collective. I'll tell you what, we talk...

Quote:I don't see the current system as fixed and all powerful. Chaos theory strongly indicates (proves IMO) that a closed system will generate chaotic and unpredictable outcomes no matter what. Human social networks are not fixed systems by any means. Its fairly fucking obvious that knowledge and information on a collective basis is the very back bone of any human civilization. All hierarchical systems are based on keeping knowledge and information in the hands of as few people as possible.

The rapid dissemination of the "knowledge and information" that muslim terrorists from Afganisatan did 9/11 started a global war on terror, in which the valiant wounded America went to fight them over there so we don't have to fight them over here.

That particular "knowledge and information" led to some fairly serious consequences on a global scale, did it not?

The difference between the nwo and the truth movement is action...

Quote:There are many ways to undermine it from with in, is this not one of them?
The system is not flawless or invicible No system of human social organization is fixed.

Is what one of them exactly?

Quote:Things have been done to counter it. People have fought back, fought and died, over every "inch of ground" in the struggle for freedom. But its a fucking battle. A fight, and its likely to be endless.
Movements come and go, no one movement is going to be the be all end all solution to everything, and someone somewhere will always be trying to set up systems of hierarchical domination. Just because the slave masters seem to have been one step ahead of the masses for the last little while, does not mean "nothing has been done" and "nothing would ever work".
Thats a stupid fucking way to view it, I'm sorry.

Don't give me this bollocks Bryce. People fought their freedom in a physical context, the situation we have at hand is far subtler and more complex than any of our ancestors have endured

Quote:Knowledge alone is never enough, of course not, but its the starting point if anything is ever going to change, which it must, since change is inevitable.

Shame that this knowledge ends up a feedback loop though, and gets regurgitated time after time... + guess what? Doing Nothing!

faust · 09-24-2007, 12:00 AM

Quote:
Quote:I agree with Chris about knowing who we are... it's also about what we truly want. The people who want war with the elite, will no doubt get one in their own personal way.
The elite are at war with us. You can't stop someone who wants to kill you by pretending they are not there.
How one views that and how that plays out in one's life is entirely due to one's own perception.

You missed my point entirely...

Quote:Mother Theresa was a fucking shill.
You can be "pro-peace rather than anti-war" without "quitting the truth movement".
I don't see how that is mutually exclusive.

Whatever you say fella.. Why cant you read between the lines?

Quote:Everyone is managed by mind control of one sort or another. But if you are going to write your own programming, you really do indeed need self knowledge, and the ability to be totally honest with ones self.

To look at different perspectives you should look at the world in different shoes, not your own all the time

faust · 09-24-2007, 12:03 AM

My apologies Chris. I'm outta here :wink:

ccarota · 09-24-2007, 09:22 PM

I'm finaly ready to reply to What If We Are Crashing the System...

Its funny, it was almost like watching someone else thread, and waiting for the breaking point before I joined in. I don't want to just react to whats posted, like I overreact to SE's comments about nationalism. I reacted by getting authoritative and asking her to leave if she couldn't answer my questions. In truth, she doesn't have to, I am not an admin, nor am I the moderator, I can't stop anyone from posting here. Faust, SE, mad, you don't need to leave on my account. Ever. You are all a part of this discussion, and I don't want to discourage anyone from participating. The same must be true of me trying to stop someone else... We are meant to police each other, and I don't want to do that. So I'm not goign to stop, myself or anyone else.

After all these years of posting, I am starting to understand how these threads are more like a living organic structure rather than an inorganic one. An inorganic system of authority s imposed on the growth of organic human life, "detaching us form nature". But as much as the system can try and program and predict our reactions, as organic life, they can't always be predicted and controlled. So our detachment from nature is only applied, temporarily, and never irreversible or fully achieved. No system is absolute when compared to the potential of individual expression of a growing organic life. So that is how I will treat this thread. I don't want to stop anything from growing. I just wantt to participate fully in the growth. So let us eat from the garden, share the fruit, and not worry about the bad seeds :biggrin: (In nature, I'm not sure if there's any such thing)

As you know, it takes me a while to respond, so I'd like to pick one "fruit" at a time, starting with what resonate....

Quote:"Yes!... I've been biting my tongue too, that's pretty much what I think.

If you've noticed, I don't post much on what I know of conspiracy theories, that is the reason. But, knowing these things are important in understanding the world, learning how to think, learning what YOU actually think and feel. These efforts by all of us are never wasted. Though, I think we have to be careful not to divide ourselves, that is all a new world artificial industrial slave order needs to come into being."

So have i, for years i've been "careful" of stating my oppinions about alot of conspiracies or my disection of certain sources of disinformation, or the chance of being permanently associated with some divisive dialectical term or issue. But I have now come to believe that being careful shoudl not stop me from saying what I believe, especially if those beliefs go right to the heart of the matter.

~resonate~, you have just expressed the reason I 've been labeled a fence-sitter in the past... and the reason I haven' fought against that label... because it was true. yes, I think labels and factions are stupid and hyped, but they are there for a reason, and I'd prefer to be aware of my limitations, not in denial of them. I started this thread by saying I'd been biting my tongue... I realize, that must man that I am or was afraid of what might happen if I speak. And maybe that blood in my own mouth is my own controlled reaction. It has become a HUGE limitation on what I'm capable of accomplishing. It has kept me off the radio and out of print. And I realize that it was intentional. I have consciously stayed under the radar for the most of my career. My fear of causing further division and hatred, has makes me overly cautious about disclosing my position, and therefore LIMITS how far I can go in my understanding.

I always try and include in some form, my full world view, always hinted at or alluded to for those who look beneath the surface. But what the fuck elitists bs is that... Yes i think everyone can see beneath the surface, but I think my message doesn't have to be just for people who are consciously doing it... Besides, so much of this of this stuff is on the surface, it needs to be addressed in that way, There no "maybes" about it. It's counter productive to myself and to my community if we limit ourselves. I think its time to say it all, say it say all, no more secrets. After all these years of searching, if we can't back it up what we believe we might as well just back down and stop alluding to things we can't stand up for.

This is main reason I updated the Johnny Gosch story; by using a titled like "Johnny Gosch is Alive". For the longest time I avoided talking about this subject openly because of how people might react to it. I didn't want to traumatize them and I couldn't really "prove" what had had happened to Johnny even if I could prove that mind control, fascism, pedophilia and all the rest were true. I had a problem with the idea of "speculating" as a "conspiracy theorist". I was afraid of the idea of associating professionalism with what I thought were personal beliefs. But All that was getting in the way of me communicating my research and my basic belief to people. So when I wrote that story and posted it on a public page, i was trying to make state my of conviction and belief in something I could only prove in the abstract. If thats what it takes to reach people. Then thats what I am prepared to do, even if it means being "wrong" about Johnny Gosch, its the question that drives me.

I have this compulsion to understand everything, and have found that the best way to understand something is to DO SOMETHING with it. resonate~ said it this way...

Quote:Doesn't it all come down to respect? If every action you make, and every thought that you have has respect for the other behind the intention, that's all we really need to do. Therefore, we'd never have to demand respect, because it's given freely....

I see the forums as a form of self experimentation executed in a scaled down map of comprise of our "world views". This is why my question to D, "Why are you self destructing?" was sincere, even if it was too personal. Aournd here, we can "blow up" our "buildings" up without realizing it, since our constructions on the forums are made out of individual ideas being put together in real time, by cogniative carpenters... even built on a foundation of research, are still extremely unstable if they rely solely on the structure of thread. So wihtout even realizing it, we go around destroying the structure of our community by getting personal about someone else beliefs, trying to stop the discussion when we feel threatened, when we feel that any one could be our enemy, and we react like patsies.

The true definition of mutual respect is self respect. The less personal I get about someone else, and the MORE personal I can get about myself, the farther I can take the discussion. The more judgmental and personal I get about others, the more I detract from my own self knowledge. This is the "Law of Detraction". the secret that The Secret didn't tell you about. I think thats what Osgorth discovered, but his solution was to write about it and then leave, and that's not possible for me. NO MORE SECRETS. The more personal I get, the more involved I get, the more i understand and the less I will be limited by how people will react. Like waiting for like 75 post before I really responded.. the more "resonance" i saw, the more my personal truth becomes an energetic fact... .and suddenly, I could write about it.

I am working on the first episode of Knife Deep... "A Chance to Cut is a Chance to Heal" .It will be related to this thread, of course. It uses a lot of media clips and editing, so its not exactly an instant podcast, and its taking a while to put together. In the mean time, I will respond to each person who's posted here.

You are all here for a reason.

-Chris

resonate · 09-28-2007, 07:22 AM

i see ya

I noticed that there are a lot of forums here, and none of them seem to be geared towards solutions.
Maybe we could get a Solutions forum going?
I have to admit, I'm tired of just dwelling on problems. I think a Solutions forum would help us progress more productively. And every time you go there, you'll remember that since you are in a solutions thread, you'll have to talk about solutions!

The first thread could be "what types of challenges are most begging for solutions, in your opinion?"

triplesix · (This post was last modified: 09-28-2007 12:29 PM by triplesix.)

Man this thread has become such a clusterfuck I can't get my head straight... all I can really say is I like resonate's idea. There is far too much negativity when faced with the colossal nemesis of "the Enemy." Solutions are lacking, even simple ones such as how to live life with hope and happiness in spite of the daunting situation we find ourselves in. If I may be so bold, that may have helped prevent formerly valued contributors such as faust and deathstickboy's mutual acquaintance from withdrawing from the fight. Though I wouldn't know, so don't crucify me if I overstepped a boundary.

I just find myself frequently repulsed by the negativity spawned by and generated, and finding great solace, within the forum, whether user-generated or tangential. Knowing that "the Enemy" exists, even if no form is ever established for it, is enough to overwhelm many and prevent them from going any further. It is time we share our experiences, how we deal with it, and provide a place for members to present their problems in the mutual desire for solutions, allowing the forum to flourish with a sense of togetherness. Too often the anger towards "the Enemy" becomes misdirected and fired at one another. Solutions, I feel, will probably prove far less divisive.

ccarota · 09-28-2007, 04:29 PM

Quote:i see ya

I noticed that there are a lot of forums here, and none of them seem to be geared towards solutions.
Maybe we could get a Solutions forum going?
I have to admit, I'm tired of just dwelling on problems. I think a Solutions forum would help us progress more productively. And every time you go there, you'll remember that since you are in a solutions thread, you'll have to talk about solutions!

The first thread could be "what types of challenges are most begging for solutions, in your opinion?"

I liked your organic ideas resonate... we have a forum called "Breaking the Chains" whic is supposed to be for solutions. I encourage you to go start the thread. -Chris

ccarota · 09-28-2007, 05:26 PM

Quote:Man this thread has become such a clusterfuck I can't get my head straight... all I can really say is I like resonate's idea. There is far too much negativity when faced with the colossal nemesis of "the Enemy." Solutions are lacking, even simple ones such as how to live life with hope and happiness in spite of the daunting situation we find ourselves in. If I may be so bold, that may have helped prevent formerly valued contributors such as faust and deathstickboy's mutual acquaintance from withdrawing from the fight. Though I wouldn't know, so don't crucify me if I overstepped a boundary.

I just find myself frequently repulsed by the negativity spawned by and generated, and finding great solace, within the forum, whether user-generated or tangential. Knowing that "the Enemy" exists, even if no form is ever established for it, is enough to overwhelm many and prevent them from going any further. It is time we share our experiences, how we deal with it, and provide a place for members to present their problems in the mutual desire for solutions, allowing the forum to flourish with a sense of togetherness. Too often the anger towards "the Enemy" becomes misdirected and fired at one another. Solutions, I feel, will probably prove far less divisive.

Thank you for your insights, triplesix.

I started this thread to help create some self-awareness, and perhaps an acknowledgement that this could be happening. But, by nature of the discussion, it's almost meant to make peopel go off... so to speak. But even so, we have to defuse this bomb... and I think that self-awarness and acknowledgement are part of the solution, even if we have to deal with other problems that arise from it, such as divisiveness. I think a lack of self awreness is what is truly destructive, so if e have to push through this cluster fuck and make some sense of what our reactions mean, then so be it. This is new territory for ConCen, and nobody said it would be easy to traverse.

-Chris

mothandrust · 09-28-2007, 08:50 PM

do you know what day of the week it is?

nah. me neither.

but who cares? the sun is shining, (almost) all my favourite minds have come to picnic (sorry i was late (shame i missed faust (and anyone seen sv?))). you have laid on some tasty morsels Chris and it appears others have brought a wealth of goodies too. and who's to say weeks even exist past structure and convenience?

the threatened storm clouds have have been carried away on the winds of discovery and imagination. lets us not lock our children in their rooms, they will learn nothing from us 'cept resentment. and in turn we shall learn nothing from them, 'cept 'superiority'.

for, let's remember, when it comes to enjoying life, children are our best teachers. and did Jesus not say that before we can see him we must strip naked without shame and trample [our] clothes underfoot just as little children do?

perhaps it seems i am a little off topic, but really i want to dig down to the core of the subject that which defines and controls our thinking - without question or challenge. people call themselves 'truth seeker' - i hate that term, 'cos in general i think what they really mean is justification seeker. they use the term 'truth' just as Bush talks of 'freedom'. you see, i think we are all truth seekers whether we know it or not that truth being, the way we frame and justify our lives. for some, in whatever movement, this will demand reinforcing walls, for others expanding territory common territory. tt is the evolution of oneself. it brings to mind a Buddhist tale of a frog who saw its little pond as the whole world and when confronted by the ocean its head exploded in disbelief.

in truth there are very few immutable structures the earth for sure (at least within normal terms of reference), night and day and the annual cycle (and life and death), but beyond that almost all falls prey to opinion, convenience and prejudice even the most basic obvious, unquestioned items. Like for example our numbering system why base 10? because of our fingers (and thumbs) - but to computers this is horribly inefficient and wasteful. i am not of course advocating changing our numbering system to base 8 (although it would leave our thumbs free to use as 10s), my point is about how ideas and systems become so fixed within our thinking to never be questioned. so completely arbitrary suppositions become established truths, with no scientific or ethical validity whatsoever. numbers is an obvious example, as are multiples of days, degrees in a circle and any measurement. but beyond mathematical examples lie a host of suppositions masquerading as truth, validated by violent hierarchy - namely ownership and value, and hierarchy itself. property, nations, money all fall to pieces under scrutiny, leaving us with our world, its particular characteristics and its cycles. all else is hearsay (have you noticed how close to heresy hearsay is?).

i will admit one further point, not that i have any (ExpLainable) scientific validation, but as so many people whose opinions i respect echo the point (Confucius, Buddha, Jesus, Rousseau, Einstein, Marley), i must also engrave it to the foundations of my truth: love life.

arghhh... more later, my head wants to explode. ideas pull my thoughts in every direction and coherency threatens to be swept away in a gale. i'll shut up for a while and chew things over.

did anyone bring cake?

big hugs,

triplesix · (This post was last modified: 09-28-2007 10:51 PM by triplesix.)

If I can take a moment to go off on a tangent, I'd like to bring up something I think many can benefit from, and that is the philosophical Way of thinking, known as Taoism. I want to address Taoism because I noted that you (mothandrust) named Confucius as someone's opinion whom you respect. Without condemning too much the wisdom and ideology of Confucius, it is by association that I find myself opposed to the practical, and even greater philosophical view, of Confucius and Confucianism. I address this because in all my searching for a historical philosophy that I agree with, I have found none more comforting or felicitous than Taoism.

Confucianism is largely based on the "Four Books" exemplifying core values, such as righteousness or morality, loyalty (and honesty), honor of the family, and decorum, or etiquette, or propriety, (an uncomfortably vague concept far too close to "conformity" for my tastes.) While these concepts are beneficial to someone looking to become exemplified within a rule structure (aka "society"), these concepts are founded, essentially, on human ideas whose constructs exist because mankind created them.

Taoism, is in many cases, completely opposite in nature. While Taoists obviously endorse morality, loyalty, and honesty, the idea is far more esoteric. To borrow the almost embarrassingly wise words (embarrassing when compared to the ignorance rampant in modern America) of George Washington, allow me to change George Washington's connotation from "Nations" to "people" and use it to illustrate the Taoist ideology towards human relations:

"In the execution of such a plan nothing is more essential than that permanent, inveterate antipathies against particular people and passionate attachments for others should be excluded, and that in place of them just and amicable feelings toward all should be cultivated. The person who indulges toward another an habitual hatred or an habitual fondness is in some degree a slave. He is a slave to his animosity or to his affection, either of which is sufficient to lead him astray from his duty and his interest. Antipathy in one person against another disposes each more readily to offer insult and injury, to lay hold of slight causes of umbrage, and to be haughty and intractable when accidental or trifling occasions of dispute occur."

In this sense, George Washington was urging American government to take a Taoist approach in dealing with nations internationally. By replacing "nations" with "people," we are presented with a passage that could have come from Lao Tzu himself. The ideas presented here are one glance at the harmonious Way humans should interact with one another. Taoists believe that if nature is allowed to flow unobstructed, struggle and hardship would cease. If people interacted with one another amicably in spite of trifles and grievances, we are free to take pleasure and grow from interactions with another. Washington astutely points out that he who interacts with others through "passion" and connotation, becomes a slave to his position, and becomes less free to live and perform his duty. This is commonly paraphrased as "avoiding entangling alliances." This is correct in one sense, but it belies that Washington's real warning was to "avoid succumbing to transient impulses." It is by avoiding regarding the illusion of superiority and inferiority that one is, and this is pivotal, naturally moral.

The Taoists do not believe that rules should exist. Rather self-control and self-awareness make rules unnecessary. It is by following the natural path of the universe, and abiding by the natural desires of man, essentially liberty and safety, and recognizing others' rights to these as well, that man naturally engages in moral discourse.

I particularly enjoyed your quote of Jesus, in that he said that one should strip ourselves of our human constructs, in this sense, our clothing (something which Confucius would take very seriously), and return to a natural state, nakedness, and live as little children do. Taoism is particularly fascinated with the properties and actions of youth. Especially infancy and the "toddler" age. Taoists recognize that babies are soft and weak, and old men are stiff and rigid. Rigidity is not recognized as strength, rather flexibility is recognized as persevering. It is a remarkably Darwinian recognizance. Immaturity is not viewed as undesirable by Taoists, for there is no greater happiness than the aloof residence in the "here and now." It is a remarkable testament to the lack of awareness in Western culture that we do not even have a proper term for the present moment. This shows the fugacity, the impermanence, of Western civilization.

Being focused on the consumption of energy and the Taoist Yang, or masculine, energy of work and activity, Western civilization is tumbling ever faster to its own cessation. The rapacious burning of energy cannot last for long. Confucianism also exemplifies cultivation and excess consumption and utilization of Yang energy, known far more positively in the West as "productivity." Taoism recognizes, perhaps more than anything else, the need for balance. So Taoists are constantly urging men to recognize the far subtler Yin energy, that which is feminine, sanguine, and nurturing. Nourishment is sustaining. It is through recognizing the strength in yielding, and the avoidance of unnecessary force, that one may live a long and meaningful life.

I bring this up because I myself sought answers in the Eastern traditions, and it was only through finding incomplete and unsatisfying solace in the many great ideas inherent to Hinduism, Confucianism, and Buddhism, that I realized the philosophy that most recognizes the Nature of the Universe is Taoism. If anyone is not yet familiar with Taoism, I encourage you to look into it. Particularly those that mistakenly associate it with religion, as it is anything but. Taoism, is perhaps, the only mindset with which one can flourish in spite of the daunting Enemy we face, and its weapons of intolerance, division, and provocation.

This seems abrupt for an ending, but I seem to have run out of anything to say.:)
Peace
666

deathstickboy · 09-28-2007, 11:28 PM

Quote:If I can take a moment to go off on a tangent, I'd like to bring up something I think many can benefit from, and that is the philosophical Way of thinking, known as Taoism. I want to address Taoism because I noted that you (mothandrust) named Confucius as someone's opinion whom you respect. Without condemning too much the wisdom and ideology of Confucius, it is by association that I find myself opposed to the practical, and even greater philosophical view, of Confucius and Confucianism. I address this because in all my searching for a historical philosophy that I agree with, I have found none more comforting or felicitous than Taoism.

Confucianism is largely based on the "Four Books" exemplifying core values, such as righteousness or morality, loyalty (and honesty), honor of the family, and decorum, or etiquette, or propriety, (an uncomfortably vague concept far too close to "conformity" for my tastes.) While these concepts are beneficial to someone looking to become exemplified within a rule structure (aka "society"), these concepts are founded, essentially, on human ideas whose constructs exist because mankind created them.

Taoism, is in many cases, completely opposite in nature. While Taoists obviously endorse morality, loyalty, and honesty, the idea is far more esoteric. To borrow the almost embarrassingly wise words (embarrassing when compared to the ignorance rampant in modern America) of George Washington, allow me to change George Washington's connotation from "Nations" to "people" and use it to illustrate the Taoist ideology towards human relations:

"In the execution of such a plan nothing is more essential than that permanent, inveterate antipathies against particular people and passionate attachments for others should be excluded, and that in place of them just and amicable feelings toward all should be cultivated. The person who indulges toward another an habitual hatred or an habitual fondness is in some degree a slave. He is a slave to his animosity or to his affection, either of which is sufficient to lead him astray from his duty and his interest. Antipathy in one person against another disposes each more readily to offer insult and injury, to lay hold of slight causes of umbrage, and to be haughty and intractable when accidental or trifling occasions of dispute occur."

In this sense, George Washington was urging American government to take a Taoist approach in dealing with nations internationally. By replacing "nations" with "people," we are presented with a passage that could have come from Lao Tzu himself. The ideas presented here are one glance at the harmonious Way humans should interact with one another. Taoists believe that if nature is allowed to flow unobstructed, struggle and hardship would cease. If people interacted with one another amicably in spite of trifles and grievances, we are free to take pleasure and grow from interactions with another. Washington astutely points out that he who interacts with others through "passion" and connotation, becomes a slave to his position, and becomes less free to live and perform his duty. This is commonly paraphrased as "avoiding entangling alliances." This is correct in one sense, but it belies that Washington's real warning was to "avoid succumbing to transient impulses." It is by avoiding regarding the illusion of superiority and inferiority that one is, and this is pivotal, naturally moral.

The Taoists do not believe that rules should exist. Rather self-control and self-awareness make rules unnecessary. It is by following the natural path of the universe, and abiding by the natural desires of man, essentially liberty and safety, and recognizing others' rights to these as well, that man naturally engages in moral discourse.

I particularly enjoyed your quote of Jesus, in that he said that one should strip ourselves of our human constructs, in this sense, our clothing (something which Confucius would take very seriously), and return to a natural state, nakedness, and live as little children do. Taoism is particularly fascinated with the properties and actions of youth. Especially infancy and the "toddler" age. Taoists recognize that babies are soft and weak, and old men are stiff and rigid. Rigidity is not recognized as strength, rather flexibility is recognized as persevering. It is a remarkably Darwinian recognizance. Immaturity is not viewed as undesirable by Taoists, for there is no greater happiness than the aloof residence in the "here and now." It is a remarkable testament to the lack of awareness in Western culture that we do not even have a proper term for the present moment. This shows the fugacity, the impermanence, of Western civilization.

Being focused on the consumption of energy and the Taoist Yang, or masculine, energy of work and activity, Western civilization is tumbling ever faster to its own cessation. The rapacious burning of energy cannot last for long. Confucianism also exemplifies cultivation and excess consumption and utilization of Yang energy, known far more positively in the West as "productivity." Taoism recognizes, perhaps more than anything else, the need for balance. So Taoists are constantly urging men to recognize the far subtler Yin energy, that which is feminine, sanguine, and nurturing. Nourishment is sustaining. It is through recognizing the strength in yielding, and the avoidance of unnecessary force, that one may live a long and meaningful life.

I bring this up because I myself sought answers in the Eastern traditions, and it was only through finding incomplete and unsatisfying solace in the many great ideas inherent to Hinduism, Confucianism, and Buddhism, that I realized the philosophy that most recognizes the Nature of the Universe is Taoism. If anyone is not yet familiar with Taoism, I encourage you to look into it. Particularly those that mistakenly associate it with religion, as it is anything but. Taoism, is perhaps, the only mindset with which one can flourish in spite of the daunting Enemy we face, and its weapons of intolerance, division, and provocation.

This seems abrupt for an ending, but I seem to have run out of anything to say.:)
Peace
666

Satanist. :tongue:

triplesix · 09-28-2007, 11:50 PM

Quote:
Quote:If I can take a moment to go off on a tangent, I'd like to bring up something I think many can benefit from, blah blah blah blah flourish in spite of the daunting Enemy we face, and its weapons of intolerance, division, and provocation.

This seems abrupt for an ending, but I seem to have run out of anything to say.:)
Peace
666

Satanist. :tongue:

SerialExpLain? How, what... :freaked:

mothandrust · 09-28-2007, 11:52 PM

nice post 666, really pleased to see this brought up. one must of course remember Confucius is not Confucianism (anymore than Christ is Christianity) - his teachings have been as bastardised as anyone's in pursuit of power. in truth i would generally list Lao Tzu ahead of Confucius, it's just the first attributable notion (as far as i am aware) of "behave towards others..." comes from him and it stuck in my mind as i was thinking of advocates. have you read 'the Tao of Pooh'? - i loved it.

and yes, the belief in balance, how true. and how unfashionable in our modern age - here i think we are of one mind. on the subject of GW being almost Daoist... hmm... "we the people..." hmm... not convinced, sorry. you see to my mind it instantly separates and raises "the people" above nature. admittedly 'enlightenment' thinking is built on this notion but to my mind it's not very Daoist.

i wonder, have you read Mo Tzu? his teachings were all but wiped out by the Han dynasty as they imposed their version of Confucianism across China. it seems he was far more interested in the mechanics of the system, yet combining it with the balance of Daoism (but also, perhaps less esoteric, making it more of a threat) a few fragments of his writings are available but personally i've not checked them out (just passing on the opinion of a Chinese guy i respect).

<div align='center'>*
close your eyes and you will see clearly
cease to listen and you will hear truth
be silent and your heart will sing
seek no contacts and you will find union
be still and you will move forward
be gentle and you will need no strength
be patient and you will achieve all things
be humble and you will remain entire
*</div>

triplesix · (This post was last modified: 09-29-2007 12:55 AM by triplesix.)

Whoa, first off, I didn't say George Washington was Taoist, haha, I just noticed how particularly Taoist that warning to the American people really was. Quite right Early America was rife with inequity, as non-Taoist as it gets, so while we agree, I just wanted to clarify.

True about the difference between the "prophet" and the "religion." Still, I worry about the materialism and complicated morality eschewed by Confucius. But of course I have always said, and I think it is especially important in conspiracy research, to not judge an individual based upon the sum of their works. This is especially true with David Icke and Alex Jones, two individuals upon whom a large amount of abuse is dumped upon. Were it not for these two individuals I wouldn't be here today. Does that mean I "follow" these two to the entirety of their presentations and theories? Absolutely not. But to condemn them for their follies, being presumptuous enough to call them that, is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

The Tao of Pooh was great, I read it after drinking a family sized bottle of cough syrup before the Celebration of Light at English Bay, Vancouver.... it was enlightening. :hurt:

I wanted to bring up as well what you said earlier, and how Taoism has a similar lesson on this note:

Quote:...i want to dig down to the core of the subject – that which defines and controls our thinking - without question or challenge. people call themselves 'truth seeker' - i hate that term, 'cos in general i think what they really mean is justification seeker. they use the term 'truth' just as Bush talks of 'freedom'. you see, i think we are all truth seekers whether we know it or not – that truth being, the way we frame and justify our lives. for some, in whatever movement, this will demand reinforcing walls, for others expanding territory...

The Taoists say that unchecked pursuit of knowledge is as dangerous as unchecked pursuit of power, or any unchecked pursuit for that matter. You perfectly demonstrate that warning in what you said. I find it very enlightened. So often the word "truth" is tossed around, when so often in this universe, there is no definable "truth" to anything, especially when applied to the irrational world of "man". I hear people saying that knowledge is absolutely essential; "those unaware of history are doomed to repeat it." The Taoist would reply, "Repeat what? I live in harmony with nature and with my fellow man. If this causes me to repeat such behaviour from antiquity, all the better. Let's remember that which was good and repeat it."

The Taoist doesn't feel the necessity for knowledge, but obviously doesn't condemn those that pursue it with self-control and proper self-awareness. They just recognize the fact that a person doesn't need anymore knowledge than that required to be respectful to oneself, everyone else, and nature.

Just wanted to throw that out there. And I'll look into Mo Tzu.
666

blove8. · 09-29-2007, 02:02 AM

*brings in the cake and ice cream*

cool thread. thanks for starting it Chris, and thanks for the participation everyone else! :cool: