Why are Christians so insecure ?

[SerialExpLain]

It would be a continuation of whatever escence was at the core of a being. When a being of the Kingdom sins it does not sit right on their being and they naturally become repentant, again and again. The sins they commit come from exposure to the fallen world, i.e. temptation.

One day that scenario will be different, in that a higher love and perfect peace will be their destiny in an unblemished eternity because they knew how to be subordinate to the promptings of the Creator and over time sought out increasingly for God's will and not their own. By then they were mere vessels with no opposition to that status.

EVIL (part of the fallen world too) has its own core essence and will one day be returned to a place exclusively of that essence. The eternal torture is only the continuation of what that essence always was consumed by at its core. Power was the illusion afforded to them for only a short time on the scale of things. A very short time. Deep down they know that and they are enraged by that. Hell is where rage goes on eternally, the torture is the time when all the rage is now directed back at them instead of out at those underserving. The Bible makes it clear that there is a time of God's Mercy and a time of God's Wrath. When the time of God's Wrath is upon the world that is a time of great purgation. As the saying goes, "there are no atheists in foxholes". Then when everybody who is going to get a perspective has it, at the time of their death the final life review would provide the remaining purgation of the world prior to entering the Kingdom.

[hilly7]

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Quote:No, actually facts. But just roll over and go back to sleep.

I don't want to live in your paranoid nightmare :biggrin:

It's how you wangle the facts to fit your paradigm, that's the irony of your insecurity... :wink:

<span style="color:#FF0000">One could say the same as well.

Quote:<span style="color:#FF0000">Science a nightmare? I'm amazed that your perspective is so off. <span style="color:#FF0000">I don't think science a nightmare and never said that, you did.

Quote:Science is great but can't explain everything no disprove everything. What your argueing is theroies, ie: someone's guess. Funny, most Christians have room for both, not either or. Who is unsecure?

Theist religions rely on theory too, ie someone's guess (just making sure you got that one :wink: )

Quote:Good place, put your faith in humanity. Good sheep.

moroff :biggrin:

Good comeback. :LOL:

[resonate]

Just by subjectively seperating anything (eg:wheat from chaff), or the good from the bad, or good from evil, that creates an insecurity. That is the root of fear.
So, the more you seperate things, the more fear you're going to feel.

Insecurity is fear of yourself teetering on the good-or-evil scale. When in reality, there is no scale existing outside of anyones mind who believes it. This insecurity doesn't only or always serve Christians, it serves anyone who does not know that there has been drawn a fictitious line between where they end and their environment or someone else begins (I think Watts goes into it in "what should not be").

Religion or lack of may lead you to fear, it may lead you away... it's how you feel. The more lines we draw between us, the more fear we'll have of each other.

Nowadays, for something to be "proven", it needs to be written on a piece of paper and stamped by an authority to be worthy of consideration. That may be why religious people (any person or group of people) feel backed against the wall, because what they expirience cannot be symbolized... aka written on a piece of paper. Therefore, improvable to others that haven't shared the same expirience.

So what comes out of the anti-christian, anti-islam, anti-ernie-and-bert, anti-oneness thing? There's billions of minds wasted on creating anti's.... are they not just petty arguments?

[SerialExpLain]

Quote:Just by subjectively seperating anything (eg:wheat from chaff), or the good from the bad, or good from evil, that creates an insecurity. That is the root of fear.
So, the more you seperate things, the more fear you're going to feel.

Fear? Fear of what? The moment? Whatever, that moment is there is suffiencient Grace for it. Extraordinary things happen at times of great pain, lessons and other extraordinary things. Is is a gift, not something to be avoided as long as you live on the earth something, somewhere will cause pain. Anxiety comes from thinking about a possible future event, be it physical, mental or spiritual and doubting sufficient Grace for the occasion.

There is no fear in the moment only love and peace. Love is letting go of fear - but it is done by the Spirit. Spirit is enough to sustain someone through anything --- anything. It is not a negation of pain, only fear replaced by being at peace with it while suffering, that is a function of Grace. It occurs when being present in the moment -- fully present.

Just because you do not fear a serial killer does not mean he/she would not be a serial killer and given the chance kill you. Obviously, there is another destiny for that serial killer than the innocent who was killed.
Because paradise would not be paradise with him there. But for the serial killer, he is part of primordial evil, hence where he will return.

That is what it is all about. And that is why it is an inconvenient truth, but still a truth none-the less, because of prophecy, because everything is all orderly layed out as only the WORD could have fortold.

There are two. Each going their separate ways. Always has been like that -- always. Two Kingdoms. There is nothing that has ever happened upon earth that is even remotely close to oneness as a global consensus. It has always be about division. That is simply the way life works or everybody would either be all loving each other or all killing each other.

Quote:Then the fixity of Thomas’ grin broke; his face seemed to be replaced by another face with a similar grin. At the top speed of a kaleidoscope, a long succession of faces came and went, one flickering after the other. All grinning. All with “Cain’s thumbprint on the chin,” as Michael described the mark that haunted him for the rest of his life. Every pair of lips was rounded into the grinning shape of Thomas’ last word: <span style="color:#6666CC">“one!” Faces and expressions Michael never had known. Some he imagined he knew. Some he knew he imagined. Some he had seen in history books, in paintings, in churches, in newspapers, in nightmares. Japanese, Chinese, Burmese, Korean, British, Slavic. Old, young, bearded, clean-shaven.



Black, white, yellow. Male, female. Faster. Faster. All grinning with the same grin. More and more and more. Michael felt himself hurtling down an unending lane of faces, decades and centuries and millennia ticking by him, until the speed slowed finally, and the last grinning face appeared, wreathed in hate, its chin just one big thumbprint.


Now the window was completely black Michael could see nothing. “Cain . . .” he began to say weakly to himself. But a stablike realization stopped the word in his throat, just as if someone had hissed into his inner ear: “Wrong again, fool! Cain’s father. I. The cosmic Father of Lies and the cosmic Lord of Death. From the beginning of the beginning. I ... I ... I ... I ... I ...”



http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vatica...ican27.htm

[mothandrust]

resonate - pretty much on the button i would say. although, (all) religion since its inception has been used to generate fear and division, so nothing new there. religion is the original psychological warfare.

politics and science may be (relatively) new but their tactics and ideologies have no real differences to their forebears.

[SerialExpLain]

Religion doesn't matter, take it all away. Division always existed in every culture down through history.

There are two Spirits. And Oneness is a Total lie. Because it is SO unreal.

Obviously, or they wouldn't be contemplating transhumanistic approaches to achieve this elusive consensus of Oneness.

I ask this question? Where has there ever been oneness. Name one instance?

And I don't mean socialized living. That is not oneness, it is people maintaining.

[Zadoc]

Quote:Evolution is such a hoot.

We all came from a rock. Gotta love that.

Now, if you're suggesting that the theory of evolution says that human beings "came from a rock," and you know full well that no one has ever said or suggested such a thing, doesn't that make your statement a lie?

And if your statement is not a lie, can you please provide a link to a document where researchers do in fact claim life on Earth evolved from rocks?

The real question is this, if you can't have an honest debate, then why participate? Directly avoiding confontation is a sign of fear; what are you so afraid of?

[jack]

Quote:<span style="color:#009900">
Buri was created from a stone licked into shape by the primeval cow, Audumla.

Audumla received nourishment through licking the salty rime-stones. Audumla licked the stone until it was shaped into a man. This stone became Buri, grandfather of the Aesir gods: Odin, Vili and Ve.

:biggrin: :crazy:

Researchers claim that we came from Primordial Soup.

[jack]

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Quote:So what are they so scared of ?

Some christians beliefs/faith seem so fragile that they attack before they even look at what their attacking. This fear should be worked on if they want to attract others to Christ, as opposed to turning them away.

I agree

Quote:Why do Christians feel secure and not act against the Zionist that threaten the world?

They have been taught that Israel & Israel are the the same thing. Plus that rapture doctine, which I can find no where in the bible.

Yipes I got to do more on this.. plus add something of a opinion about faith as I heard it once.
<span style="color:#FF9900">What is this attacking you mention.
If anything, non Christians are in charge of whatever attacking is going on.

Israel has already been established by Christ and it does not pertain to any particular location on earth.
Any Christian thinking otherwise is under some sort of Zionist mind control.

Boy do I feel silly, I thought that I was agreeing with you, but I was agreeing with myself.
Without the quote box I thought that those were your words, not mine.


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Quote:Djinn ... are eternally tortured

Djinn or demons, angels (fallen) and Satan are immortal. Hell was made for them, so I suppose that they will forever suffer. People, I believe, will be eliminated in hell.
What mortal can burn forever ?
Immortality is the gift for those people whom accept Jesus. Other people will perish.


Perish : to become destroyed or ruined : cease to exist.

"But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the the Lord shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away." Psalm 37:20.



I'm not saying that I'm right, because I could easily be wrong. It's just that I have a hard time thinking that a loving God would torment people forever.
Forever is a very, very long time
Heck, we're only alive here on earth a short time, the punishment doesn't seem to fit the crime for most people who die unbelieving.

I've heard many times "So If a murderer repents and believes they'll go to heaven, but all these decent people who didn't believe will go to hell ?"
The standard answer is yes.
I know people whom have rejected God/Jesus for that very reason, can't say as I blame them. If you think about it, it sounds sort of sick and twisted, not loving.
For me, the way to remedy that, is to see it the way I am currently understanding it. That we mortals will be thrown in the eternal torments of fiery Gehenna to burn up and die our second death, forever.
Not a pleasant way to die.


"For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be as stubble; and the day cometh that shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch." Malachi 4:1.


Does God wish to be loved because God is this awesome creator, or because were scared of hell ?

I think of children, we punish them for misbehaving, in hopes that they'll be good in the future.
Do we want the to be good because it's right, or to be good out of fear of punishment ?

[jack]

Quote:Religion doesn't matter, take it all away. Division always existed in every culture down through history.

So true.

[SerialExpLain]

Found some passsages regarding there being an "eternal" status to it.

Matthew 3:29
But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.

Jude 1:7
Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Mark 9:44
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Matthew 23:33
Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

Romans 13:2
Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation

Psalm 9:17
The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.


* * *

Matthew 25:32-34 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain



32And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

[hilly7]

Quote:Just by subjectively seperating anything (eg:wheat from chaff), or the good from the bad, or good from evil, that creates an insecurity. That is the root of fear.
So, the more you seperate things, the more fear you're going to feel.

Insecurity is fear of yourself teetering on the good-or-evil scale. When in reality, there is no scale existing outside of anyones mind who believes it. This insecurity doesn't only or always serve Christians, it serves anyone who does not know that there has been drawn a fictitious line between where they end and their environment or someone else begins (I think Watts goes into it in "what should not be").

Religion or lack of may lead you to fear, it may lead you away... it's how you feel. The more lines we draw between us, the more fear we'll have of each other.

Nowadays, for something to be "proven", it needs to be written on a piece of paper and stamped by an authority to be worthy of consideration. That may be why religious people (any person or group of people) feel backed against the wall, because what they expirience cannot be symbolized... aka written on a piece of paper. Therefore, improvable to others that haven't shared the same expirience.

So what comes out of the anti-christian, anti-islam, anti-ernie-and-bert, anti-oneness thing? There's billions of minds wasted on creating anti's.... are they not just petty arguments?

Very good summation. I think you hit the nail on the head.

[SerialExpLain]

Becuase again, there is no one-ness. That is an artificial POLITICAL construct. And it has nothing to do with ANY religion. So take religion out of it thoroughly.

If man never conceived the idea of any religion, there still would be no oneness. It would have to be induced for everyone to be considered a part of ONE-NESS - a cell in the theoretical ONE.

It is a sad day when there is an agenda that tries to impose such an artificial construct that has never existed on the planet. Where is all this onesness? Where was it ever?

Insecurity has nothing to do about where one falls on the good-evil continuim where there is a nitch for everything from a serial killer at one end to, say, Mother Theresa at the other. Because, those toward the serial killer portion of the continuim don't have a conscience and whatever insecuirty they may be having would be more about their image cultivation and other narcissistic drives, not about spirituality.

The rest, I don't think would ever have to worry about damnation no matter what religion they were.

And I just don't see the psychopaths obtaining any kind of paradisical afterlife. Now, if you take the concept of afterlife out of it, say there was none. There would be oneness because everyone would decompose back to elements.

[resonate]

The Agenda is only trying to impose the oneness that can be Bought and Sold.

SE: I'll try to explain how I think you are looking at oneness differently.

It seems like you believe that there is a specific type of oneness that only humans can understand, as if it isn't functioning right now, and always has been, even before humans had the ability to understand. An ant is always acting oneness out, wether humans are around to say it is or not. So in other words, you are focusing on just the conceptual oneness, and centering the universe around your mind and not The Spirit.

There is the Main Stream Oneness as an image enhancing commodity, and then there is the Spiritual Oneness that can only be felt and not spoken of.

The oneness (as a commodity) will turn everyone into exact replicas of each other, and will obviously weed out diversity, which is what nature is. And oneness in Spirituality is eternal and must be loving, and respectful, because why would you want to hurt yourself?

This is Spiritual, it's not literal. It serves to turn everyone into an artist.

Spiritual Oneness is something that we felt when we were children, before we were taught how to feel different from everything else.

[mothandrust]

lovely resonate, beautifully put

Thomas 37 Wrote:<span style="color:#FFFF99">His disciples ask him: When will you appear to us? When will we see you? Jesus replied: When you strip naked without shame and trample your clothes underfoot, just as children do, then you will look at the son of the living one without being afraid.