The Ideal Form of Government

[resonate]

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Quote:in reality, given that all primates live within families (as far as i am aware without exception), i find it difficult to imagine how humanity could have lived otherwise. and, when one considers how vulnerable an individual human is, alone, against the forces of nature it seems ludicrous to imagine humanity in any other format apart from social groups.

one must also remember, in nature, physical violence (excepting for food, protection and procreation) is always the last option. remember, physical violence is very, very dangerous, to all protagonists, even the winner.

from this perspective, i would suggest, violence was not so common. in fact, until humanity had spread out across the planet, and overburdened its resources there would be little reason for violence at all.

so 666, do not fall for the lies the state and its education program attempt to force down the throats of its inhabitants, purely to validate its own existence.

Everything you state as evidence against a violent past to mankind points to me as evidence for it.

Look at fucking Ötzi the Iceman, dude. Ötzi has been established to have been alive around 3300 BC in the Neolithic era though his lifestyle was more similar to the Mesolithic peoples. He died at 45 years old, which was quite old for the time, showing evidence of a lifetime of abuse, not all of which could be attributed to normal wear and tear. Ötzi had healed fractured ribs and a healed broken nose. He died violently with a deep cut near his thumb down to the bone indicating a wound received while trying to deflect blows with his hands. He also got shot in the back with a fucking arrow and that's probably what killed him. On top of that, he had two arrows with blood on them from two other individuals, which he had retrieved after shooting them. On top of that, Ötzi's position when they found him indicated he had been rolled over onto his stomach so as to remove the arrow shaft. I'd say that's evidence he lived in some violent times.

Another example is peat bog corpses. These are more often than not clear murder cases, or at least examples of violent death. Throats being slit, heads bashed in. We're talking about a time where all you had to do was kill them when no one was around and who would ever be the wiser? Unless of course bad blood was known between the murder and victim but now we're just getting over-speculative.

First I'm provided the Wild West as an example of anarchy in action and then I'm to be persuaded it is less violent than established society to the East?

Of course the first police forces were paramilitary forces designed to mostly protect the interests of the patriarch but allow history to show us its follies. Having a general police force has greatly benefited mankind. Having a war on drugs and a suppression of political dissent is clearly the villain here. If police were trained properly, and not to be useful NWO thugs, they could be a significant source of comfort for most people.

I am sorry, but if any of you held any credibility for me before, you are shattering it with your delusions of an orderly and civil society before constitutions, civil liberties, and birth rights were established and protected under the law. Violence had been the way of life for most people before even the twentieth century and ever escalating violence as history is traced backwards.

Of course it was dangerous for any number of men to meet other men in battle, but it wouldn't be hard for ten to twenty thugs to jump some fool and kill his ass without running into any trouble whatsoever.

Of course before humanity enveloped the globe and began rubbing elbows with one another violence was minimal, but now humanity is living practically on top of itself.

How is anarchy a viable alternative to what we have? Without causing a significant backslide of progress, without a significant increase in violence, without a gradual breakdown in commerce and living standards, etc.? And I'm talking over significant time frames here with significant populations. Especially when considering that other geographical areas may be united under an authoritarian leadership, amassing military, weaponry and delusions of conquering the world?

Just tell me how!

10/6 is me by the way - i use the ID from the work computer, just in case management stumbles across it.

i accept many of your points 666 and although anarchy is a seductive idea to me personally i fail to see how it would not fall prey to wicked, power hungry people in absolutely no time. (perhaps you'd like to check out the 'Anarchism in America' thread)

however, i think you are missing my original point. sure i know of the iceman and peat corpses and i am not denying ancient cultures were potentially brutal, and life fragile and vulnerable but in evolutionary terms all of this is very recent - way after humanity had spread across the globe and established culture and society - and the world, given their level of technical development, was in many areas at saturation level, or at least claimed as territory. the time i am referring to is way before this, even before Africa had been entirely populated, when the earth appeared to stretch for ever and the bounties of life appeared to know no bounds.

it is thought fire was harnessed about 200,000 years ago, again, in evolutionary terms, very recent but this no doubt aided humanity's expansion considerably, and would, in time, lead to the era which you are citing.

Nice post 10/6:P
It's not the people at the top, its the myth we follow.



I just want to say that murders, rapes, war (chemical and nuclear war)... the results are here NOW... with THIS model/myth of civilization.

Wanting more police won't do anything to secure our safety, police usually apprehend the "suspect" AFTER the crime has been commited, police don't prevent the crime. More laws won't help, it will escalate hostility. More prisons won't work, locking people up who don't conform doesn't help. We've been doing that for thousands of years, and the number of people jailed is rising rapidly. More enforcement will certainly bring about total control, marshall law, or what have you.... because, behold, it's already here, and it's not working for human beings as a whole.

The question is, Why have we lost oursleves? Why do we commit crimes? Why are many people depressed, or suicidal? Why do some Join mafias or cults? Why are people starving, overpopulated? What is the constitution doing for all these problems?

These problems exist because the system we hold up is failing. We can't possibly tell ourselves to be a certain way, human beings are way too complex to follow rigid guidlines. It's not natural for people, that's why people are acting out, desperate, confused.

When you were young, what was the thing you hated most... Being told what to do... right?

All kids want to do is play, have fun and explore... but whenever those rules come up, it makes them mad, so they act out.

If you give them candy, or any luxury, they'll expect it, and want to maintain that greed, because they think they are allowed to have these things... granted liberty. Most kids never grow up. The constitution has the same effect on people as the rules.

The foundation of all religions, inlcuding science, our culture, is rigid in the belief that the world belongs to us... so heres the liberty to compete for it... to the end of the age, as the story goes.

We don't have to succumb to the myth that ends in disaster. Many tribes on earth do still understand their responsibility and relationship to the earth. Anyone could just begin doing that individually, or together, and not call it anything? We don't need to tear down the authority... we just need to render it useless to us.

What will happen if we keep going the way we are?... were dead. What are the powerful to do if people gradually learn how to stop working for the system? The worst that could happen, is they push the button. What's better?

So, what can we do, other than trying to become more independant from that which we slave for and don't agree with? Shouldn't we at least want people to be free if the button is pushed?

What's the ideal form of government? Government is an illusion. Aren't we just allowing ourselves to be governed? We'll only think we need to be governed if we don't know how to live independantly.

[faust]

Simplicity is the key

Also, as individuals we should learn the concept of authority without domination before delving into whatever is the best "system"

[ccarota]

Quote:as individuals we should learn the concept of authority without domination before delving into whatever is the best "system"

Well said. Otherwise, there's simply no point.

[deathstickboy]

Quote:Simplicity is the key

Also, as individuals we should learn the concept of authority without domination before delving into whatever is the best "system"

Like where "authority" is in the realm of advising rather than dictating?

If you have something in mind beyond that I'd love to hear it.....

To the original topic at hand and question posed, lets enter some Maxwellian (as in Jordan Maxwell) interpretations into play.

To rephrase the question under such parameters, it becomes
"Which form of Mind Control is Ideal"

To which I would answer "none" in the sense that it would be opposed upon someone from the outside.

More clearly stated would be "self mind control" or self government in the form of Anarchy, you know, what is already going on in reality, parallel to the imaginary world of laws, regulations and authorities that we humans create in our little power struggles.

[nataraja]

it was interesting for me to hear the concept that goverment is an illusion and it only realy exists because i accept its system.

from what i know about history, we have never been more technologically advanced and there has never been this many of us. so i dont think its wrong to assume that never before has so many people questioned the system, the authority.

this is where i do wonder how beneficial seeking all this sort of information is and how i envy the ignorant at times.

like deathstickboy signature picture of lolcat saying "cannot unsee whut i saw'ded"

so is the answer then getting off the grid, not paying taxes, creating a sustainable life style ? hmm

i do think that people are realizing the indoctrination and the conditioning like never before, people are questioning and not accepting what they are shown, hey, people are even turning off their T.Vs.

so in some regards the future might be looked at with a positive outlook.

the link between the police state/nwo and the population of educated free thinkers who are questioning and demanding answers is apparent.

and from another signature which seems relevant for this post:

"I wont waste any time on that blabbering load of shit that you just posted, so back to the topic at hand."

[resonate]

faust Wrote:as individuals we should learn the concept of authority without domination before delving into whatever is the best "system"

I agree...

Since every animal has their own way of gathering themselves that was given to them by evolution... eg: Flocks, Herds, Prides, Schools. You'd think that there would be a way for humans that was also given to us by evolution? There was, but we just forgot about it... and thus expanded out of control when we adhered to the myth that humans were the most important species on the planet... and therefore thought humans had the right to exercise authority (with domination) over all other life here... and other humans.

Quote:so is the answer then getting off the grid, not paying taxes, creating a sustainable life style ? hmm

I think so. I think dealing with direct substance or labour, and not the illusional substance of money is key.

As it is now, most people live in crowded cities... so money and taxes are pretty much unavoidable for a while. Anyone could grow all the veggies their family would need in a balcony garden, or even inside with flourescents.

Permaculture projects will be key to bringing back habitats naturally, so more animals and humans will be able to live successfully with the land if they choose.

The best part is... this will happen gradually and naturally - we don't have to all dive into a new "system" right away - just the people who are ready will, and the people who are ready will help others, you don't have to consult any form of government to start something like this right now.

[jack]

Quote:Since every animal has their own way of gathering themselves that was given to them by evolution... eg: Flocks, Herds, Prides, Schools. You'd think that there would be a way for humans that was also given to us by evolution? There was, but we just forgot about it... and thus expanded out of control when we adhered to the myth that humans were the most important species on the planet... and therefore thought humans had the right to exercise authority (with domination) over all other life here... and other humans.

Flocks, schools, herds, prides, ect.... So what about loners ??? Lots of humans and animals too don't enjoy being in a group.
Or what about those that the group doesn't accept ??? Lots of humans in the world who get cast off from the group. You know, the ones that are left standing after teams are chosen.