England Riots 2011

[rsol]

message for the day kids. the po po now have your BBMs in front of them. anyone wanna bet they switch that off after this has all gone away?

time to switch to a new medium.

[crystal]

[rsol]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/cri...36857.html

Mother of man arrested in riots is served with eviction notice

Quote:The mother of a man alleged to have been involved in the riots in London has become the first person in the country to be served with an eviction notice in relation to the violence.


Wandsworth Council announced yesterday that it was evicting one of its tenants, saying it was part of a drive to take "tough action against tenants or members of their households who were directly involved in the disturbances".

The notice was served after the son appeared in court in connection with the riots which spread across the capital. The family cannot be named for legal reasons. The notice is the first step towards an eviction.

The council apply to the courts and the tenant will be able to argue her case. The final decision resting with a county court judge.

The Prime Minister, David Cameron, gave his backing yesterday to councils seeking to evict tenants over the violence, saying that people who "loot and pillage their own community should be shown the door".

Mr Cameron said he thought evictions were a way of "enforcing responsibility in our society". He told the BBC that people who could face difficulties as a result of their eviction "should have thought of that before they started burgling". He said: "Obviously, that will mean they've got to be housed somewhere else – they'll have to find housing in the private sector. And that will be tougher for them.

"For too long we've taken a too-soft attitude towards people that loot and pillage their own community. If you do that you should lose your right to the sort of housing that you've had at subsidised rates."

Stephen Howlett, chief executive of housing association, the Peabody Trust, said last night he believed the courts would find eviction of tenants disproportionate. "We want the strongest action to be taken against those involved, but our preference is for the criminal justice system to be the focus."

He said the measures risked pushing tenants further into poverty.

"These people have to live somewhere, so if they are evicted you risk just exporting the problem."

The leader of Wandsworth Council, Ravi Govindia, said: "We are determined to take the strongest possible action against any tenant or member of their household responsible for the shocking behaviour perpetrated on local homes and businesses this week.

"Our officers will continue to work with the courts to establish the identities of other council tenants or members of their households as more cases are processed in the coming days and weeks."

He said that tenants had agreed not to take part in activities that could jeopardise their housing, by signing their tenancy agreement. "It does not just apply to the mother, but the entire household," he said.

Councils including Westminster, Greenwich, Hammersmith, Fulham and Nottingham and Salford have all said they will consider evicting their tenants if they are found to have been involved in the rioting.

Yesterday, Manchester City Council said the family of a 12-year-old boy photographed stealing a £7.49 bottle of wine during riots in Manchester were facing the possibility of eviction. A spokesman said: "We will not tolerate any of our tenants being involved in anti-social behaviour, which is detrimental to the city."

The council has flagged similar action against tenants who appear in court, saying it sends a signal that violence will not be tolerated.

---

As you can imagine this is the dumbest move ive ever seen.

find a house in the private sector? tougher for them? more like impossible!! one homeless family coming right up. fools

[Swordfish]

I disagree
It shows there is a consequence to action and sends a message to others that they are not immune to the law and will not be supported by the community they are trashing.
If your kids are doing it, then you need to sort your feral offspring out rather than sitting at home watching football. If they live in your house, you have a responsibility for them.

In context, if I dont pay my mortgage there would be no hesitation in making me homeless, and I have never burgled anyone, set fire to a shop or beaten up people in the street.

I would also place these idiots in the stocks in the main shopping area on a saturday afternoon so that the community can see who they are.
Then see if they want to chance it again...

[rsol]

you sound like one of "them" exactly why are you here? do you even know what its like on those estates? you have no idea what its like for parents of those kids there. your knee jerk reactions are populist and unproductive and government endorsed.

if you steal you go to jail or get comunity service. creating homeless people is not a solution.

Im a law abiding citizen. I have worked since i was 13 picking flowers... my brother was a junky and robbed others. would i deserve to be turfed out onto the street? guilt by association goes further than the parents.

you are not trying to fix matters merely feed your own need for "justice" without proper forethought as to even why these kids have been insulated by the world. go out to peckham right now and say that on the street to these kids.

You dont need them in stocks. they are already at the shopping centre with thier hands in thier pockets, no money, no job, no prospects, no chances, surrounded by "rich" people who earn just about enough to get by. they are in stocks every day. treat a person like a dog and after a while he will act like one.

we have all been squeezed to breaking point. did you think it was going to be the middle class to go nuts first?

you talk of your mortgage. you think they even consider buying a house?

The orwelien state STARTS THERE and works its way out.

[snecker]

it seems to be that it is all the estate kids who are being blamed for all the looting, that is just ignorance do you not think that there are middle class kids there too. it is just that the poor kids are blamed for it all. as for evict them from their council houses, how will that help, just a typical class war, again. cameron and his cronies are doing what they did in the 80's again. i was a teenager then and it is just repeating itself.

[FastTadpole]

Arresting people is NOT the way to tackle gang crime and looting, warns U.S. 'supercop' hired by Cameron
'Thugs should fear police and punishment for looting,' says ex-New York and LA chief Bill Bratton
Full Story: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...meron.html

[rsol]

yes but to lump them in together is also incorrect.

The first wave was there to attack the cops, the second wave was there to cash in. this was a fluid situation with normaly law abiding citizens suddenly given the oportunity to grab that thing they have been saving for, or cant save for. the insurance companies and banks can do it, why not me? that sort of angle. we just have 100s of billions dished out to bankers who didnt even regulate themselves afterwards. why should anyone care when this is the message you get? take what you can! give nothing back!

Most of those caught did not intend to steal as they were caught on camera with their faces showing. The pros got away with it in almost industrial numbers. only the idiots got caught.

If you read the newspapers you could be mistaken for thinking it was children of millionares, olympic ambassadors and school teachers. very little mention of the the poor. This is propaganda to enrage and polorise you towards viewing this smoke as just smoke so you forget about the fire.

BBS messaging is now under control of the police. 20 years ago such draconian messures would never have made it into the chamber. now where are we? advocating SHHOTING KIDS for theft. thats worse than saudi arabia. cutting a hand off at least offers a second chance....

[Swordfish]

Quote: you sound like one of "them" exactly why are you here? do you even know what its like on those estates?

Dont try to put me in your "them" box. You dont know anything about me or my background.

Yes I know exactly what it is like, I was brought up as very lowly working class and have also worked at the sharp end with junkies, paedos, burglars and thugs as a job and voluntarily.
Just because people dont have jobs does not make them into criminals.
People who pander to this image just give them an excuse for not taking responsibility for their own situation.

Lets not pretend that these are some kind of representatives of working (or any other) class, they are the scum who I remember even from my youth who have always had no regard for their neighbourhood or anyone elses efforts.
Kids of 6 or 7 who spit at you in the street and will happily throw a brick at you safe in the knowledge that they wont have to pay a price.
This is just BAD parenting and nothing to do with accessibility of jobs.

When visiting florida I was advised that if "mugged" I should just give them my money, what kind of a deterrent is that? No consequence for a mugger so why would they stop? If anything makes it more likely. This is basic behavioural theory. Do bad things - no action - do even more bad things.

The point which you have missed is that unless there are consequences, why would they not feel free to burn, assault and terrify people?

Quote: your knee jerk reactions are populist and unproductive and government endorsed.

My views are populist because most people are not blinded by liberal nanny state propaganda which produces factory fodder from birth upwards and then wraps the results in cotton wool when they produce criminal acts.

The anonymity of the hoody is also a factor with this, no criminal wants to be known for their actions, see how many hide under coats and blankets coming out of court!
If they think their behaviour is so cool lets make their faces known and get them into the public view.

Quote: no money, no job, no prospects, no chances,

You missed the bit out about the hundred pound trainers, the mobile phones and the xbox at home... and are you really suggesting that any of this justifies burning down other peoples hard work and liveliehood?

---

Quote:
Most of those caught did not intend to steal

Whaaaaat!
Apart from mind reading a whole section of society and implying that they are morons, isnt this more accurately recorded as "most of them didnt intend to get caught"
How many do you think were handing in their ill gotten gains the day after as an act of conscience.
Please....

[rsol]

Quote:Yes I know exactly what it is like, I was brought up as very lowly working class and have also worked at the sharp end with junkies, paedos, burglars and thugs as a job and voluntarily.

bullshit. i have friends who do that job and would FIRE you for a such an unhelpful and pointless attitude. is that why you are not doing it now?

Quote:When visiting florida I was advised that if "mugged" I should just give them my money, what kind of a deterrent is that? No consequence for a mugger so why would they stop? If anything makes it more likely. This is basic behavioural theory. Do bad things - no action - do even more bad things.

its because they will shoot you so much as look at you. where would someone get such an attitude? these kids come from Harvard? you think that sort of attitude is a well educated guy thinking "fuck work, i can run the streets looking for people to mug, ive calculated this on my computer, it just makes fiscal sense"

Quote:My views are populist because most people are not blinded by liberal nanny state propaganda which produces factory fodder from birth upwards and then wraps the results in cotton wool when they produce criminal acts.

see? absolutely pointless and knee jerk and i would say partisan. wing-nut much? you dont know most people or these people. you talk for everyone yet haven't met them.

Quote:The anonymity of the hoody is also a factor with this, no criminal wants to be known for their actions, see how many hide under coats and blankets coming out of court!
If they think their behaviour is so cool lets make their faces known and get them into the public view.

you would see that from a guy in court for embezzling. another pointless point.

Quote:You missed the bit out about the hundred pound trainers, the mobile phones and the xbox at home... and are you really suggesting that any of this justifies burning down other peoples hard work and liveliehood?

ever thought that kit might be on sale @ gumtree right now?
ever thought that trainers don't cost £100? they cost about £5. they end up on "sale" the next year for £40 they are created as luxury items. ever thought these people are in a position where no one cares about them? like to the point of advocating shooting? you expect respect from those who have none given.

Quote:Whaaaaat!
Apart from mind reading a whole section of society and implying that they are morons, isnt this more accurately recorded as "most of them didnt intend to get caught"
How many do you think were handing in their ill gotten gains the day after as an act of conscience.
Please....

for someone who has allegedly worked with thieves you dont know the mentality, its called opportunism, perhaps you can put the people of iraq into your all encompassing "scum" motif as once law and order broke down, EVERYONE started getting what they could.
its accurate to say "most of them didn't think they would get caught"

[Swordfish]

Quote: you dont know most people or these people. you talk for everyone yet haven't met them.

Ditto

Cant be bothered to argue with someone who is putting their own alleged values onto thieving scumbags to justify their actions.
Like others have said, if this were a political protest why did they target the old, the vulnerable and their own corner shops.
Tell your story to the asian lady made homeless because they burned her house down and see if she agrees with your weak apologist viewpoint.

Instead of justifying criminal acts, how about giving some thought to their victims instead....

[rsol]

ok lets quote from someone who may know a few thing. like the american "gang buster" cameron has brought in to sort out the "criminality pure and simple"

By Avril Ormsby

Quote:LONDON – Britain needs to tackle deep-seated social problems following riots and looting in English cities this week, the centre-right government said on Saturday, and a U.S. street crime expert it has brought in said arrests alone would not solve the problem.

“There are communities that have just been left behind by the rest of the country. There are communities that are cut-off from the economic life-blood of the rest of the country,” Finance Minister George Osborne said.

Prime Minister David Cameron, criticized by some in his Conservative party as being too liberal on crime and punishment, has taken a hard line on rioting in statements this week after returning from his summer holiday and recalling parliament.

He has also come under attack for austerity measures his government is introducing to tackle a huge debt burden.

Mr. Osborne said throwing money at the issue was not the answer and the government would press on with deep cuts to the numbers of police, who have been criticized by Mr. Cameron for their handling of the riots.

The Conservative mayor of London, Boris Johnson, has said the riots, which broke out a week ago after a demonstration against the police shooting of a suspect, weakened the case for those cuts.

Mr. Cameron has said political and economic grievances had little to do with days of looting and violence which followed in which five people were killed, calling it “criminality pure and simple” and saying gang violence lay at its heart.

He enlisted U.S. street crime expert William Bratton on Friday to advise the government on handling it.

Mr. Bratton, credited with curbing street crime as police chief in New York, Los Angeles and Boston, said he would offer advice based on his experience tackling gangs.

“You can’t arrest your way out of the problem,” he told U.S. broadcaster ABC on Saturday.

“Arrest is certainly appropriate for the most violent, the incorrigible, but so much of it can be addressed in other ways and it’s not just a police issue, it is in fact a societal issue.”

Cities were largely quiet on Friday and Saturday. British police flooded the streets again to ensure weekend drinking does not reignite the rioting that shocked Britons and sullied the country’s image a year before it hosts the Olympic Games.

More than 1,200 people have been arrested in connection with violence disorder and looting and hundreds have been charged. Police have set up screens in city centres showing pictures of suspects and plan to display them at soccer matches on Saturday.

THANKS

Tariq Jahan, whose 21-year-old son was one of three men who died in an apparent hit-and-run incident in Birmingham on Wednesday, told reporters he was “humbled” by the letters of support from people around the world.

“I also want to thank the young people in Birmingham for listening to what I had to say and staying calm,” he said.

Mr. Osborne said lessons needed to be learned. “There are very deep-seated social problems which we need to tackle,” he said in the interview with BBC radio.

“This about a far bigger challenge for our society which is dealing with people who we have ignored for too long and helping them feel they have a stake in society, feel that they know the difference between right and wrong, understand their responsibilities to other communities, not just their rights.”

About 200 people took part in a demonstration on Saturday in north London calling for more support for youngsters living in grim and violent housing estates, according to reports.

A ComRes poll for The Independent newspaper showed 54% of Britons say Mr. Cameron failed to provide leadership early enough to control the riots.

Most offenders are unemployed young men, though they have included a millionaire’s daughter, a charity worker, a journalism student and a soldier.

The scale and ferocity of the rioting, not only in inner-city areas but also in some middle-class suburbs, has generated a debate with starkly different views, with many people saying the police should have been tougher.

The former leader of one of London’s most feared street gangs said the riots were not the brainchild of gang leaders but, in many cases, the result of a build-up of frustration among young people growing up on grim housing estates with little hope.

“The fire’s there, secured in a room, locked away and then someone’s opened the door and it’s spread through the house,” Elijah Kerr, who transformed his gang into an organisation helping young people, said in an interview.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/08/13/...s-top-cop/


hang on did he just say its not just dickheads but a societal problem? ermm but i thought he was supposed to fix this!!......why isnt he calling for peckham to be cast in irons and shipped of to Australia? oh yeah its the 21st century.

listen learn... if you think its easy go and move out there and make something of yourself. i was lucky to be able to move. I never had a job in hackney. there was one shop near by and a pub. i spent all my money on rent/food/travel and I was working in canary wharf working in a posh bar/brasserie. those twats in suits don't tip a damn thing.

[Dunamis]

There seems to be a lot of talk here...

but have any of you walked this walk?

I was in and out of foster parents and then eventually put in care, grew up with crap all. Of course, this could all be blamed on my mother...

...small problem there...she was in institutionalised care from the age of 3.

All about bad parenting my backside! You make me laugh.

I could bring out the old me (14 year olds perspective upon being taken into care) for five minutes if anyone cares to hear his side

Also, I do not justify any violence or destruction of individuals private property, so this isn't for me, about justification of such actions, but understanding. And I am from this world...

...so for once I actually do have some personal insight that might be of worth here, usually is all state-side news of this level.


[Edit: Just to note, if indeed one does want to blame it on bad parenting, they then are suggesting that in fact there is an "excuse" (I personally don't believe in excuses), and are suggesting that the youth should not be punished, but the parents set an example of, as it's "all their fault", right?]

[Solve et Coagula]

The Meaning of the British Riots: Corruption At The Top Leads To Lawlessness By The People

by Washington's Blog
Global Research, August 13, 2011

I've repeatedly noted that corruption and lawlessness by our "leaders" encourages lawlessness by everyone else. See this, for example.

Peter Oborne - the Daily Telegraph's chief political commentator - wrote yesterday:

The criminality in our streets cannot be dissociated from the moral disintegration in the highest ranks of modern British society. The last two decades have seen a terrifying decline in standards among the British governing elite. It has become acceptable for our politicians to lie and to cheat. An almost universal culture of selfishness and greed has grown up.

Continue to read:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?c...&aid=26015

[pax681]

my police mate gave me some info about the initial shooting.
he said that the guy was a known drug dealer with firearms connections.
this isn't new really however what i didn't know was that the guy, when stopped had a converted blank firing pistol.
he then shot a policeman with it.. in the vest and thus is just knocked him over however in response he was shot.

dunno if this is the line that is being fed from the Met but that's what he has been told and i thought i'd pass it on