The Resistance - Protest March 26th [Video Thread]

[R.R]

Not sure if I should post this up here, so mods feel free to place it wherever it should go.

I'm just some what confused as to this protest and especially talk of revolution. While it is good to see the public standing up to governmental decisions, what is it supposed to achieve? Inspite of the provacateurs running around in the middle east, at least one can sympathise with wanting to rid a dictator and control your own future. This protest seems to me a demand for big government as opposed to the people being in charge of themselves. It is generally about money and there is little to no mention of banking. I think most people protesting have no real understanding of the banking scam and really do believe it is a simple case of printing more money. Also usually in revolutions there is a demand to change lifestyle to an extent, while this one is really a protest to retain the ability to indulge. Time and again I'm hearing students especially moan about not having the same opportunity as the previous generation but when you press them they are really worried about not having 2.1 children, a 30k+salary, a 4 bedroom house, at least a holiday a year and the freedom to go to starbucks for an overpriced coffee in the morning, a trendy sandwich shop at lunch and a pub meal after work - oh and the promiscuity and drug taking that happens in university. Not to mention attending the concerts of popstars and spending your disposable income on DVDs, music CDs and 'fashion'. Also others are now complaining that they have to make do with holidays every few years instead of one a year or settling with Butlins, there are complaints about the squeezed middle-class having to shop at Aldi instead of Asda. In short it is about obscene hypermaterialism and maintaining the wasteful system that has dumbed down the world.

In one of the videos one guy was going on about Libya and how the UK government should be there but as we are going through austere times they shouldn't at this moment of time especially as the missiles they used cost millions. Why stop there, what about the millions wasted in admin costs to be part of the EU?

I don't sympathise with these protests but when David 'my father is buried a few graves from Karl Marx' Milliband takes over I'm sure all the usurious loans will return and public spending will go through the roof again creating ever more dependancy on government leading to even bigger problems in the future - like increased taxation to pay back those loans.

I may be wrong though so if anyone can clear it up for me.....

[Dunamis]

And this one was just random. Released by some of the anarchists I'd expect

[Dunamis]

I am using a seperate post for this as it's a three parter and more extensive than a lot of the other amateur video's available so far:

[April]

(03-29-2011 09:43 PM)R.R Wrote:  This protest seems to me a demand for big government as opposed to the people being in charge of themselves.

I have no idea where you came up with that assumption. A demand for big government? Try the opposite.

Quote:It is generally about money and there is little to no mention of banking.

Incorrect. This protest was a collaboration between many ( 8 to 12 ) large groups, that organized their march and protest on the same day. The very banner logo for the resist26 website states... "mass actions against cuts, banks, corporations, and the state."

"The love police" was one of the groups attending the 26th protest. Many of us here at ConCen are familiar with the love police's position and philosophy.....

To claim these people are demanding big government is frankly ludicrous.

Quote: I think most people protesting have no real understanding of the banking scam and really do believe it is a simple case of printing more money. Also usually in revolutions there is a demand to change lifestyle to an extent, while this one is really a protest to retain the ability to indulge.

I don't know who your speaking for... but it's definitely not in alignment with "love police" principles. I surely can't speak for all of the groups that attended this march, nor do I think I'd agree with everyone's mindset or paradigm that was there.

Quote:In short it is about obscene hypermaterialism and maintaining the wasteful system that has dumbed down the world.

Really ? I disagree 100% and honestly feel that the love police and TriWooOx would also. Maybe you'd care to elaborate on how you arrived at these conclusions, and if not, that's of course fine also.

[R.R]

I suppose I arrived to my conclusions based on the mass opinion which of course can be co-opted by the media. I'm aware there will be more organised groups who of course are more aware as to whats going on and could use the event(s) to spread the word so to speak. Also the way the media are portraying Milliband as some kind of champion of the people, at this moment in time it seems likely he'll be the next Prime Minister, which of course is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

My conclusions are based more on looking at the totality of the situation and what is motivating people into action. Organised groups don't require much motivation to protest where as 'normal' people require something that shocks them into action and in this context it is a change in lifestyle most notably a decline in standard of living and for many the cuts have made their potential futures drastically different. It is allegedly a democracy afterall and the organised groups are probably outnumbered by the masses which will be relevant in terms of a voting situation, if that is accomplished.

I should have made it clear that I was referring more to the masses as opposed to organinsed groups as to my conclusion and using a bit of hindsight gleaned from previous protests such as the protest against the Blair/Bush invasions.

Anyway based on the fact that many are now dependant on government provided services and are generally angry that these are being cut, it stands to reason that there will be a fair proportion of protesters/dissidents (not necessarily at this particular protest) who want things to go back to 'normal' which was a labour government and their wasteful spending policies. Bearing in mind that 'democracy' is thrown around so often and in practice governments generally tend to only implement the demands if it suits their agenda, the 'majority' voice will probably be something akin to advocating Milliband as opposed to smaller segments who'd probably want legitimate revolution. One cannot fail to factor the sheer numbers of ill informed and unaware people whose voting/change demanding potential far outweighs the groups who actually do have a clue. The MSM are not (as to be expected) reporting on the solutions offered by these groups which usually gives one a precursor to how things turn out at debate time. It is from this that I conclude it is a demand for big government. Now I'm fully aware the media is not the place to go to for truth, but it certainly gives you an accurate picture as to what the future propaganda is going to be and nowhere is there a call for taking control of the money supply or the people having a bigger say so over millitary matters - the two of which combine to maintain the system of control with the constant phony wars and money out of nothing trick which dictates to government how money will be spent/directed, not the ideology of any ruling party. Until the banks can be taken back this game will just continue and even if they are taken back, the means for their return will always be there because a real look at the lifestyles we all have need reevaluating too especially the ill-informed.

[Dunamis]

I would argue that the debt most worth it though has been education, and gladly it backfired on the system because critical thinking is taught by lecturers, not politicians (in almost all Universities) and now there are a decade of 50 times as many higher educated people who are willing and ready to make a stand, because they no longer see the football and drinking as the be all and end all (that's worked out of the system for most in the first two years). You should have met some of the lecturers where I went to Uni in Liverpool (an attempted degree - I went a bit mad instead).

And I would also argue that you are not taking into account that most of those taking part in these protests are under the age of 30! Those people have not seen a big shift in their standard of living yet, because it was pretty crap before. Many are students, and people who are fighting to keep public libraries open, those who think the banks should be paying their taxes, healthcare cuts, police cuts, HUGE cuts to youth projects and revitalisation projects, those like me who are very concerned about the cuts to care system, leaving even more children vulnerable by a system that is already inadequate due to a lack of funds (I myself was in and out of the poorly funded care system as a child).

So there are many areas a person needs to think about. The media is trying to make it out to be a single topic issue, and this could not be further from the truth. It was a beautiful cacophony of issues represented on multiple fronts, all rolled into a single, grand, focused event.

[R.R]

(03-30-2011 10:33 PM)Dunamis Wrote:  I would argue that the debt most worth it though has been education, and gladly it backfired on the system because critical thinking is taught by lecturers, not politicians (in almost all Universities) and now there are a decade of 50 times as many higher educated people who are willing and ready to make a stand, because they no longer see the football and drinking as the be all and end all (that's worked out of the system for most in the first two years). You should have met some of the lecturers where I went to Uni in Liverpool (an attempted degree - I went a bit mad instead).

Critical thinking to a degree but it generally conforms to the left/right paradigm. I think a quote from the introduction of Jacques Ellul's Propaganda: The Formation of Men's Attitudes explains it well:

'Most people are easy prey for propaganda,
Ellul says, because of their firm but entirely
erroneous conviction that it is composed of lies
and 'tall stories' and that, conversely, what is
true cannot be propaganda. But modern propaganda
has long disdained the ridiculous lies of the past and
outmoded forms of propaganda. It operates instead
with many different kinds of truths - half truth,
limited truth, truth out of context.'

Basically propaganda does not necessarily have to be a lie and todays propaganda is far more sophisticated - it actually does give you truth if it deems so. With this in mind then, what is propaganda:

'A second basic misconception that makes
people vulnerable to propaganda is the notion
that it serves only to change opinions. That is
one of its aims, but a limited, subordinate one.
Much more importantly, it aims to intensify
existing trends, to sharpen and focus them,
and, above all, to lead men to action
(or, when it is directed at immovable opponents,
to non-action through terror or discouragement,
to prevent them from interfering).'

This quote alone can be pondered over but for now we'll just note how it is designed to intensify existing trends - basically the continuation of old rivalries such as the left/right clash. Universities themselves seem to be polarised where the more elite ones tend to cater more to the wealthy right while the others tend to cater to the poorer left. I remember many anti-capitalist signs and slogans during the student protests. Continuing:

'A related point, central in Ellul's thesis, is that
modern propaganda cannot work without
'education'; he thus reverses the widespread
notion that education is the best prophylactic
against propaganda. On the contrary, he says,
education, or what usually goes by that word in
the modern world, is the absolute prerequisite for
propaganda. In fact, education is largely identical
with what Ellul calls 'pre-propaganda' - the
conditioning of minds with vast amount of incoherent
information, already dispensed for ulterior purposes
and posing as 'facts' and 'education'.

If that doesn't get your thinking faculties going into overdrive, nothing will. Continuing:

'Ellul follows through by designating
intellectuals as virtually the most vulnerable
of all to modern propaganda, for three
reasons: (1) they absorb the largest amount
of second hand, unverifiable information;
(2) they feel a compelling need to have an
opinion on every important question of our time,
and thus easily succumb to opinions offered to
them by propaganda on all such indigestible pieces
of information; (3) they consider themselves
capable of 'judging for themselves'. They literally
need propaganda.'

Based on the above I'm not sure '50 times more educated people' fills me with confidence because they were taught 'critical thinking' by 'lecturers'. Read up on Ellul, Dunamis, he was a Christian anarchist whose critical thinking abilities led to his work being quoted by the likes of Aldous Huxley and Zbigniew Brzezinski among many others and I'm sure you'd find his work interesting for more reasons than just social criticism. His insights are immense in that book alone. His insights into crowd psychology are eye opening too which he covers later in that same book. Here's his wiki bio:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Ellul

Quote:And I would also argue that you are not taking into account that most of those taking part in these protests are under the age of 30!

I have taken that into account primarily because I am 26 years old myself. Not just that but it I was alluded to it in my fisrt post on here:

Quote:Time and again I'm hearing students especially moan about not having the same opportunity as the previous generation

I understand the issues, what I'm saying is it seems to continue the old swinging pendulum of the last however many decades - public spending shoots through the roof by a leftist government, the right takeover and cut everything while covertly taking over things that were paid for primarily by public funds (privatisation), when its time for an upgrade because the public can no longer afford anything and are on the verge of legitimate revolution another leftist government takes power, nullifying the publics' anger which would have destroyed the system and the process starts again. The right push traditional values and ethics, the public interpret this as the reason the right is so evil and thus reject said values replacing them with the very wasteful lifestyles/mindsets that keep them needing government services which, as the icing on the cake, the loans come from a corrupt banking system in the first place which is why irrespective of how legitimate politics are (which they aren't anyway) as long as the banks dictate the value of currency and thus declare what is acceptable to them as reimbursement, which is not the return of money+interest, it is the goods and services the government coerces the population to move into via funding only certain industries which today is moving towards a service economy (you should've studied human resources in uni!) and this is how both the left and right work in tandem whether they realise it or not on behalf of the bankers/secret society network in the push for one world government. What must be remembered is that these protestations cause conflict and change within a society which is why a lot of them are started by them in the first place - they speed up social change which would take decades to fulfill if the 'dinosaurs' of the previous era with their traditional values had their way.

Now I'm not passing judgement on any activists, I commend your efforts and truly hope you can create some lasting change. I realise things have to begin somewhere and I'm not saying this is the best we can do. What I was trying to get at though, is that we can't just stop at this - it is the whole system that needs changing eventually and some debate or long term acknowledgement of this should be held and spread out otherwise it secures our immediate comfort for maybe 15-20 years but it will swing back again and at 26 I don't particularly want to face the prospect of seeing another two financial crashes in the future followed by increases in the retirement age to pay back the loans that were secured on my labour.

[Dunamis]

(03-31-2011 12:10 AM)R.R Wrote:  ...we can't just stop at this - it is the whole system that needs changing eventually...

My sentiments exactly. And cheers for the tips, I will be checking out Ellul, sounds like a random idea, a Christian anarchist, but, the longer I look into changing the system, the more chaos and "anarchy" seem to only way to at least bring the system to it's knees. Maybe a chaotic world really does need a chaotic solution and a chaotic outcome, and an end to this enforced human "order".

[TriWooOx]

[Erik]

[TriWooOx]

[hubbabubba]

(03-29-2011 09:43 PM)R.R Wrote:  While it is good to see the public standing up to governmental decisions, what is it supposed to achieve?

It might not be anything new but the love police tries to show that we are all human. Beneath that anarchist hood and beneath that riot helmet both. They try to bring their message by using love and non violence. It shows the realities of a very polarised society, the very hot emotions on the one side and the very cold machinelike actions on the other. One side do it for free on their spare time, the other works shifts for money. The love police isn't just a mob all shouting one message about one problem, instead it's a dynamic power of love trying to seduce the machine into remembering it's human origins.

Where it will lead, calling it a revolution and all, you can only speculate.