The un-official car thread of 2010

[JohnDoe1984]

Check these out.




This guy John Shepherd is probably the most famous and well respected mitsu drivetrain rebuilder in the business. Shep transmissions.





The 4G63T is the highest horsepower per liter engine ever mass produced and sold to the public with versions at 400whp with 2.0 liters.

There's fully modded 4g63 2.0's that have topped 1100hp.

[mastermg]

I was wondering, if I get the 95-98 gsx model, do I need to swap things from the 1g and the stock 2g motor if I want to upgrade the turbo and fuel injectors? It seems like the the older, 6 bolt motor is more desirable for some reason. I think the 1g throttle body and head fits with the 2g block.

Ed: Ok I found out the 2g 7 bolt motors have a common problem, and that is the crankwalk. That is scaring me from looking into a 2g eclipse/talon.

http://www.car-forums.com/talk/showthread.php?t=4460

[JohnDoe1984]

I think crank walk is mostly from heavy clutch pressure pressing in and out on the crank in heavily modified engines that need extreme pressure plates to get the clutch to grab.

I don't see why you would need to swap to gen1 parts just to upgrade the turbo and fuel. There's a few people mostly in europe putting junk yard Dodge truck turbos on their evos. They flow about as much as a garret GT35R, spool faster, and are tough as nails. You can pick them up in junk yards for $200-300. There's sub $50 rebuild kits on ebay. You have to fab a manifold, wastegate, exhaust, oil fittings, and intercooler pipes but some off the shelf T3 turbo kit parts work. Holset HX35's mostly.

If I were you and you're interested I'd probably get a membership and start lurking around the most popular DSM forums picking up knowledge. I thought that the 6 bolts had a weaker bottom end and the 7 bolts had a better forged crank and rods. I have heard of the crank walk problem though.

It does seem like some of the faster ones out there are gen 1. I always kinda thought it was because they are lighter but I'm not sure. The evo block is 7 bolt and doesn't have the crank walk problem.

The evo engine sits the opposite direction compared to DSM's with the intake pipe on the driver side. I think there's some other minor machining differences in the block like oil squirters. The evo uses a counter rotating turbo. I think it spins opposite the DSM versions.

I did some reading on your link. It seems 1995-1997 are most likely to crank walk on you. The only reason you might swap out to gen1 intake manifold/TB is it's a little better flowing and they can be found for cheap. You can also go aftermarket but from my experience and what I've read there is very little to be gained from better intake manifolds on the 4g63 until you reach the 500+hp area that's when the flow at the intake starts to bottleneck. Up to that point the stockers perform pretty well. In fact any aftermarket higher flowing design will sacrifice low end torque for horsepower up top. So they aren't better all around only in some ways.

[Ctrl]

What's your dream car guys? We know by now what each other drives, but if money wasn't an issue, what would you drive?

For me it would be this... it's not the world's fastest by any stretch, but I like its looks.

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Quote:I think crank walk is mostly from heavy clutch pressure pressing in and out on the crank in heavily modified engines that need extreme pressure plates to get the clutch to grab

Rethink it then. The only force the pressure plate exerts is to the flywheel it's bolted to. (discounting torque, but torque isn't a lateral force.)

OTOH, if you could majically bolt your p-plate to the front of the engine, (through the flywheel) THEN and only then could exert a lateral force on the crank.

If you've got end-play in your gearbox's input shaft that could cause crank walk by sliding into the pilot bearing and thus the crank.

[JohnDoe1984]

I know what you're saying.

It's when disengaging the clutch that it happens because the mitsu we're talking about is a pull style TOB clutch. The tranny fork pulls on the tob, which pulls the pressure plate apart, which in turn ends up pulling on the crank to disengage the clutch since it's directly connected to the flywheel.

I would say design flaw but that's the way the evo works too and it doesn't crank walk. It was more due to poor machining of the crank or crank bearings. It just happened more often with heavy clutches.

If you read the post at the forum link he posted that guy even states that it's caused by heavy clutch pressure.

Quote:Something that can contribute to this is using clutch kits that have a very high pedal pressure rate, which are mainly used when building the engines for some extra power.

http://www.car-forums.com/talk/showthread.php?t=4460

[Ctrl]

(01-15-2010 04:46 AM)John Doe 1984 Wrote:  I know what you're saying.

It's when disengaging the clutch that it happens because the mitsu we're talking about is a pull style TOB clutch. The tranny fork pulls on the tob,

I beg to differ, it pushes not pulls.

Quote:...which pulls the pressure plate apart, which in turn ends up pulling on the crank to disengage the clutch since it's directly connected to the flywheel.

The p-plate isn't connected to anything but the flywheel. It's not connected to the crank at all, moreover the flywheel keeps the crank/plate apart.

The p-plate doesn't do "pulling on the crank to disengage the clutch ". When your throw bearing hits the fingers on the plate the flywheel side friction ring moves backwards (sideways in your car?) towards the tranny.

Can you add shims?

[JohnDoe1984]

It doesn't work the same on every car. In this car the flywheel is bolted right to the crank, the pressure plate is bolted directly to the flywheel. Any movement or pressure exerted on the pressure plate will in turn be transfered to the outside edge of the flywheel where the pressure plate is bolted which will put pressure on the crank bearings. It's the only thing to push against.



Here's a pic. The TOB goes in the center. The whole assembly in the pic is all bolted together and attached to the crank. The bronze clip you see in the center of the PP is what keeps the TOB from pulling out. If you push or pull on it you're exerting pressure on the crank bearings since it's all bolted together.

[mastermg]

So the safest bet for conserving the engine is to lighten the flywheel? Or keep the stock heavy duty one because it is AWD.

As for my dreamcar


Haha serious now

or

or

[JohnDoe1984]

Lightweight flywheels come with lots of benefits and hardly any drawbacks. The only slight drawback that I can think of is you do have a slightly harder time starting off in first gear. It takes a few revs to keep it from stalling since it doesn't have the inertia of the heavier flywheel to help it start.

That said it revs much faster. I've never heard such a responsive engine in my life. It does exactly what my foot does and responds almost instantly. It's like it's wired to your foot.

Great for rev matching downshifts.

Go 1 piece steel. I've seen threads with flywheels that came apart. It basically totals the car and since it's right in front of the driver you could get killed. Best not to go with the aluminum steel sandwich jobs IMO. It's a part that takes too much abuse and it's a very bad scene if it fails. Shrapnel everywhere.

Your first dreamer was my first car. 1973 Mercury Comet. It was a good little car. Basically a Mustang with a different body. Mine had a 302ci v-8 and a c4 ford automatic. It could get out of it's own way.

If I could drive any car it would either be a Nissan GTR or an EVO X FQ400. I'm too addicted to the AWD. I love it for winter. The evo is an easier daily driver with 4 doors. That back seat is really roomy too.



A finely modded JDM evo 9 would be high on my list. I really love the car. I wish I could afford all the cool stuff like a built AMS 2.3RR motor and an FP black turbo with all the trimmings. Maybe some Volk te37 wheel and some ohlins custom tuned coil-overs.


Watch this...

[JohnDoe1984]

I have the feeling you think I don't know what I'm talking about with the pull style clutch so I dug up some pics.

Here's a link.
http://www.eai.net.au/pull%20clutch.htm


This illustration makes it very clear. The evo clutch is the type on the left and the fork actually pulls on the center of the pressure plate with quite a bit of force. PP is bolted to flywheel is bolted to crank so the fork is pulling right on the crank to disengage the clutch. The piece of metal at the far left of the drawing is the crank.

[Ctrl]

(01-15-2010 05:11 AM)John Doe 1984 Wrote:  It doesn't work the same on every car. In this car the flywheel is bolted right to the crank, the pressure plate is bolted directly to the flywheel. Any movement or pressure exerted on the pressure plate will in turn be transfered to the outside edge of the flywheel where the pressure plate is bolted which will put pressure on the crank bearings. It's the only thing to push against.



Here's a pic. The TOB goes in the center. The whole assembly in the pic is all bolted together and attached to the crank. The bronze clip you see in the center of the PP is what keeps the TOB from pulling out. If you push or pull on it you're exerting pressure on the crank bearings since it's all bolted together.

I stand corrected. That's different for sure. I've done quite a few clutch jobs and have never seen that before.

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(01-15-2010 05:49 AM)John Doe 1984 Wrote:  Lightweight flywheels come with lots of benefits and hardly any drawbacks. The only slight drawback that I can think of is you do have a slightly harder time starting off in first gear. It takes a few revs to keep it from stalling since it doesn't have the inertia of the heavier flywheel to help it start.

That said it revs much faster. I've never heard such a responsive engine in my life. It does exactly what my foot does and responds almost instantly. It's like it's wired to your foot.

Great for rev matching downshifts.

Go 1 piece steel. I've seen threads with flywheels that came apart. It basically totals the car and since it's right in front of the driver you could get killed. Best not to go with the aluminum steel sandwich jobs IMO. It's a part that takes too much abuse and it's a very bad scene if it fails. Shrapnel everywhere.

I've got a 2 piece 12lbs aluminum FW in my rx-7 (rated for 8500 rpm) and I'll add one tidbit of info I've found driving it..

First of all I agree w/everything you said, but in my case I get a really jerky ride at idle type speeds... 0-5 mph. It's due to gear lash AKA backlash.



If I'm propelling the car forward or maintaining a reasonable speed (5+ mph) this doesn't happen but when trying to crawl through a busy parking lot the car jerks back and forth between the gear teeth.

Maybe I need a tranny rebuild and tighter clearanced gears?

[mastermg]

Funny thing happened to the Z yesterday. My friend was driving it on the freeway, not really pushing it, when the engine started to knock. We've known that the oil pressure seems low and have taken it back to the performance shop for a check-up, but they just said that the gauge is messed up and there is oil. We took their word for it since they did build the car. So anyway after the noise he gets off at the exit and calls me up. I come by with a pint of oil since thats all I had and all the shops were closed (it was 11 pm). We put it in, started the car, and it continued to knock. We had to get the car back to his shop before the engine gives out.
We were 10 miles away and cruising on the freeway (me driving behind him just in case). when we got 3 miles away, a load of smoke flew out from the exhaust and his engine gave out. We left the freeway and cruised until it stopped.
We pushed the car a good half mile and decided to tie a rope from his prelude to the 350. He didnt want a tow truck haha. So I went back, picked up a rope, and drove back in the lude. We tied it together and drove off, funniest thing Ive done in a while. It was hard, I was in the Z and had to brake at the same time and consistency as him, so I dont pull the rope too much, or crash into him. It was very short afterall. It gave away on a turn and we tried again, finally making it to the shop.

[Ctrl]

If he had no oil, or oil pressue the valve train noise should have been heard long before any bottom end knocks.

To put it another way, if the bottom end was making noise and the top end wasn't, my first guess would be a main or con-rod bearing.

Should've got a mazda! Zoom zoom zoom....

[mastermg]

The same thing happened to his camry a while back. All we heard was engine knocking and it was too late. We put oil in the camry and let it sit before starting, but it was too late, the valves broke. Atleast the camry still runs, just knocks haha.
I like the rx8, if only it were cheaper. Rx7 chasis is getting too old for 2010.

[Ctrl]

(01-17-2010 02:56 AM)mastermg Wrote:  I like the rx8, if only it were cheaper. Rx7 chasis is getting too old for 2010.

You mean that FOUR seater?

A boring "people carrier" as Jeremy Clarkson would call it... as would the rest of the Top Gear staff.

Sports cars don't seat 4.