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Why I Don't Support the Troops - joeblow - 05-02-2010 10:19 AM
Why I Don't Support the Troops
Here's why I don't support the troops. I await you angry ignorant hate messages that totally miss the point.
RE: Why I Don't Support the Troops - --- - 05-02-2010 10:25 AM
Not in my name! Soldiers out!
RE: Why I Don't Support the Troops - AlexLibman - 05-03-2010 11:27 PM
My comment from the tracker:
Quote:I clicked on this video expecting a rational argument, like the many anti-war arguments I am used to hearing in my libertarian / Anarcho-Capitalist circles, but what I got is a retard wearing the symbols of the very tyrants who make the American Empire legitimate!
First we must skin every last commie alive and boil him in tabasco sauce (an act of legitimate self-defense) - then we'll talk about a transition to a more libertarian society with no need for a centralized military!
RE: Why I Don't Support the Troops - rsol - 05-03-2010 11:33 PM
ive met sqaddies
"peacekeeper" is not a name i would give them.
RE: Why I Don't Support the Troops - --- - 05-04-2010 12:23 AM
i inexplicably once ended up at a wedding btwn a squaddie and a cop..i was the accompaniment of an invited guest - it was pretty bizarre and profoundly brutal, in it's own way, to say the least. i have no idea whatsoever if the individuals concerned are still on course to live happily ever after.
RE: Why I Don't Support the Troops - Melchor - 05-04-2010 08:31 AM
(05-03-2010 11:27 PM)Sprite0 Wrote: My comment from the tracker:
Quote:I clicked on this video expecting a rational argument, like the many anti-war arguments I am used to hearing in my libertarian / Anarcho-Capitalist circles, but what I got is a retard wearing the symbols of the very tyrants who make the American Empire legitimate!
First we must skin every last commie alive and boil him in tabasco sauce (an act of legitimate self-defense) - then we'll talk about a transition to a more libertarian society with no need for a centralized military!
Seemed to me that he was just trying to be provocative with that. Not very tactful, but on the other hand he did piss knee jerks like you off. The whole commies are bad and corporatism is okay is a false choice. You might realize that if you got your head out of your ass and stopped thinking there's a difference. Nothing makes the American Empire legitimate except (in a positivistic sense) for the military hardware. If you want to ignore his valid point that supporting those participating in something is opposed to negates his opposition just because he is sporting some hammers and sickles you're being a douche. Those symbols of totalitarianism are no more offensive than Old Glory or the Union Jack.
RE: Why I Don't Support the Troops - --- - 05-04-2010 07:20 PM
(05-04-2010 08:31 AM)Melchor Wrote:(05-03-2010 11:27 PM)Sprite0 Wrote: My comment from the tracker:
Quote:I clicked on this video expecting a rational argument, like the many anti-war arguments I am used to hearing in my libertarian / Anarcho-Capitalist circles, but what I got is a retard wearing the symbols of the very tyrants who make the American Empire legitimate!
First we must skin every last commie alive and boil him in tabasco sauce (an act of legitimate self-defense) - then we'll talk about a transition to a more libertarian society with no need for a centralized military!
Seemed to me that he was just trying to be provocative with that. Not very tactful, but on the other hand he did piss knee jerks like you off. The whole commies are bad and corporatism is okay is a false choice. You might realize that if you got your head out of your ass and stopped thinking there's a difference. Nothing makes the American Empire legitimate except (in a positivistic sense) for the military hardware. If you want to ignore his valid point that supporting those participating in something is opposed to negates his opposition just because he is sporting some hammers and sickles you're being a douche. Those symbols of totalitarianism are no more offensive than Old Glory or the Union Jack.
You do have a good point.
At first I thought he was a commie*spits* but now I realise he wasn't being entirely serious with the maoist rebel news theme.
RE: Why I Don't Support the Troops - joeblow - 05-04-2010 07:53 PM
(05-04-2010 07:20 PM)nik Wrote: At first I thought he was a commie*spits* but now I realise he wasn't being entirely serious with the maoist rebel news theme.
Uh, nik, I hate to break this to you, but he really is a Maoist Communist and truly believes in it. For video evidence, just out a couple of his other videos:
RE: Why I Don't Support the Troops - kevlar - 05-05-2010 12:05 AM
the worst is individuals that think they know what is going on and insist on convincing you of their ideology.
RE: Why I Don't Support the Troops - FastTadpole - 05-05-2010 09:46 AM
I'll echo my post from the tracker discussion.
All that said. I support the troops right to medical care from being vax experiments, the DU, PTSD and all else that goes with the the territory instead of treating it like the usual US health insurance conglomerate. The DoD / Government should buck up and take a bit more responsibility in that right. I hate that the military lure in the desperate and the misinformed and tell them lies of supporting their country and being a patriot and all that rhetoric. I have empathy for the individuals but I do not support the troops' collective mission as it stands now.
Defend the borders, offer aid and relief from disaster. There are roles for such an institution but when they are off guarding oil pipes and poppy fields after a war of conquest based on a lie I find it difficult to back the mission. There are pockets of good amongst the bad and should be evaluated on a case by case, individual by individual, mission by mission basis. I am in no position to judge that and would like to believe that most soldiers go in with the motive to make the world a better place. I just wish they were better informed and more had the guile to disobey orders that went against human morality when presented with the ultimatum - even in the face of personal repercussions.
It can sometimes be difficult to see that morality because of the inherent compartmentalization that exists in the military, and, for that matter, the corporate and government world as well since it is designed that way. In a way we are all cogs in the machine more or less if you dig deep enough and make the connections to our each and every action. From buying that slave traded toy for your kids on sale at Wal-Mart to firing on a group of civilians and journalists from a chopper. Personal responsibility needs to be given more consideration overall.
Really it's not cut and dried black and white but from an overall perspective in this instance I'd have to agree with the stance taken in the video for the most part. Even more so in the face of the blind patriotism given to the organization that is playing the role of executor of an agenda that I cannot agree with. At least from what I have seen and what I know but I may be eating a lot of disinfo as well so I'll note that my opinion is based on my perception of what I think is going on in reality.
http://concen.org/tracker/torrents-details.php?id=16545
RE: Why I Don't Support the Troops - --- - 05-05-2010 06:48 PM
(05-04-2010 07:53 PM)joeblow Wrote:(05-04-2010 07:20 PM)nik Wrote: At first I thought he was a commie*spits* but now I realise he wasn't being entirely serious with the maoist rebel news theme.
Uh, nik, I hate to break this to you, but he really is a Maoist Communist and truly believes in it. For video evidence, just out a couple of his other videos:
how disappointing. I guess he is a paid well poisoner then.
RE: Why I Don't Support the Troops - AlexLibman - 05-09-2010 11:01 AM
(05-04-2010 08:31 AM)Melchor Wrote:(05-03-2010 11:27 PM)Sprite0 Wrote: My comment from the tracker:
Quote:I clicked on this video expecting a rational argument, like the many anti-war arguments I am used to hearing in my libertarian / Anarcho-Capitalist circles, but what I got is a retard wearing the symbols of the very tyrants who make the American Empire legitimate!
First we must skin every last commie alive and boil him in tabasco sauce (an act of legitimate self-defense) - then we'll talk about a transition to a more libertarian society with no need for a centralized military!
Seemed to me that he was just trying to be provocative with that. Not very tactful, but on the other hand he did piss knee jerks like you off.
A person who brings "tact" to a gunfight always loses, and the reality of this gunfight is a consequence of the communists' own choosing. No free market capitalist has ever stood in the way of voluntaryist socialists setting up a commune without violating the Rights of other people (i.e. on justly-acquired property, with all adults being there by choice, etc), but voluntary socialism simply doesn't work, not even in a commune of 12 hippies mooching off their daddies' credit cards. You don't see me getting pissed off at people who do stupid things without hurting others, but people whose whole philosophy is based on violence must be resisted - by any means necessary.
(05-04-2010 08:31 AM)Melchor Wrote: The whole commies are bad and corporatism is okay is a false choice.
No, it is not a false choice - either individuals have Rights (in which case they may join together to form corporations) or they don't (in which case you have communism).
(05-04-2010 08:31 AM)Melchor Wrote: You might realize that if you got your head out of your ass and stopped thinking there's a difference.
There is a difference, and I would say the best measure of that difference is economic freedom. All overgrown mafia organizations that call themselves "governments" are inherently evil, but some are more evil than others - picking the less vile poison can make all the difference.
(05-04-2010 08:31 AM)Melchor Wrote: Nothing makes the American Empire legitimate except (in a positivistic sense) for the military hardware.
Never get in an empire-bashing contest with an Anarcho-Capitalist - you will lose, big time. However my original point, that communism makes the Anglo-American Empire look legitimate, remains intact.
RE: Why I Don't Support the Troops - joeblow - 05-09-2010 03:46 PM
Sprite0, it seems as though you have a problem with Communism and prefer Robber-Baron Mad-Max Neo-Feudalism. Instead of spamming the entire forum, why do you not create a specific thread in the appropriate subforum explaining in full detail your mental-illness?
RE: Why I Don't Support the Troops - Melchor - 05-09-2010 05:09 PM
(05-09-2010 11:01 AM)Sprite0 Wrote: All overgrown mafia organizations that call themselves "governments" are inherently evil, but some are more evil than others - picking the less vile poison can make all the difference.
Considering that currently the most powerful and harmful entities are corporations operating under the 'free market' system, I wonder why you pick and choose between your 'governments.' Sadly, 'capitalism' has proven to be as much of a failure as communism because it devolves into feudalism. You talk about free economies like some mythic beast has ever walked the planet or could and then decry the impracticalities of socialism? Pretty myopic view. Additionally if such a system as a 'free market' were possible it would fail in any context where externalities are possible. I don't like it anymore than you do, but I do realize that your ideological utopic solution is no more practical than the collectivist side's ideological utopic solution.
RE: Why I Don't Support the Troops - AlexLibman - 05-09-2010 05:37 PM
(05-09-2010 03:46 PM)joeblow Wrote: Sprite0, it seems as though you have a problem with Communism and prefer Robber-Baron Mad-Max Neo-Feudalism. Instead of spamming the entire forum, why do you not create a specific thread in the appropriate subforum explaining in full detail your mental-illness?
I have made some specific points in reply to some of your recent threads, and it seems that you want to deflect the conversation, move the goalposts to your advantage, reduce the (admittedly already low) substance of the discussion, and turn it into mindless hyperbole - fine, I can play that too.
You equating economic freedom with "Robber-Baron Mad-Max Neo-Feudalism" is kind of like a drive-by shooting victim arriving in the emergency room with 6 critical wounds, and the doctors experience a split second of apparent "deer in the headlight" helplessness as they try to decide which wounds they need to rush to first to keep the patient alive a few minutes longer... And even if the patient is completely hopeless they must still make every second count and do everything by the book, trying to keep the most vital organs functioning just a little bit longer, because, among other reasons, it is the fundamental nature of the profession they have chosen to methodically fight against death by all means available to them. You, frankly, are not worth fighting for, but that should not matter - to people who value reason the struggle against ignorance and lies is its own reward, every inch of the battle an end in of itself. Let it not be said that I've done nothing!
In my brief time on this forum I've already listed numerous reasons why the Anglo-American Empire is functionally and morally superior to the alternative - a Communist Empire, which is far more economically destructive and requires far more lies and violence in order to impose itself upon the world. Tyrants like Washington or even Pinochet kill a few thousand aggressors and leave behind a first world country. Tyrants like Lenin or Kim Il-sung kill millions and leave behind economic destruction that kills millions more, and create devastating economic losses from which the world never fully recovers, resulting in years of lost life expectancy for billions more! This is why so many people from all over the world are willing to endure weeks in hot shipping containers, for example, to migrate themselves to be a part of the Anglo-American Empire! This is why the empires you glorify must build walls to keep their slaves in, and the empire I consider a lesser evil must have border checkpoints and "green card lotteries" to control the flow of people trying to get in!
I am not asking you to like the Anglo-American Empire or Anarcho-Capitalism or any other particular high-level philosophy - I am asking you to respect the scientifically-verifiable essential Natural Rights (i.e. the Non-Aggression Principle) which are essential to make civilization possible. If you can play in your communism without violating those Rights, then we don't have this problem - I can certainly play capitalism without harming you or anyone else. If, however, you glorify the flags of the most destructive institutions in human history, whose political values cannot possibly be spread without aggression on a massive scale, then we do have a fundamental conflict, and I will defend myself and my property - by any means necessary.
(05-09-2010 05:09 PM)Melchor Wrote: Considering that currently the most powerful and harmful entities are corporations operating under the 'free market' system, I wonder why you pick and choose between your 'governments.'
Corporations are "legal entities" (voluntary agreements between individuals) that have no greater rights than the individuals that comprise them. Any small business is a corporation. A church or a charity is a corporation. This Web-site is a corporation. A marriage is a corporation. Etc. A corporation cannot steal ("tax") your money against your will, inflate the currency in your wallet, bully ("regulate") you, force your children into a part-time brainwashing prison ("public school"), and so on. No one in their right mind would fight a foreign war under the flag of WalMart, or stand by while their neighbor is thrown in prison for using medicinal herbs RiteAid doesn't approve of! The "divine rights of governments" delusion is the root of most of the evil we see in the world today, and corporations must act within the context of that environment - if they don't at least some of their competitors inevitably will.
(05-09-2010 05:09 PM)Melchor Wrote: Sadly, 'capitalism' has proven to be as much of a failure as communism because it devolves into feudalism. You talk about free economies like some mythic beast has ever walked the planet or could and then decry the impracticalities of socialism? Pretty myopic view.
You are using the Marxist definition of capitalism, not the capitalist definition. A genuine free market (i.e. Anarcho-Capitalism) is a 21st century idea that is yet to be realized. How can you condemn what you don't really understand?
(05-09-2010 05:09 PM)Melchor Wrote: Additionally if such a system as a 'free market' were possible it would fail in any context where externalities are possible. I don't like it anymore than you do, but I do realize that your ideological utopic solution is no more practical than the collectivist side's ideological utopic solution.
The problems of externalities decline as technology advances, and at some point (which I believe most of the "first world" has already reached) the added externalities of decentralized institutions become significantly lower than the added economic inefficiency of the inherently-corrupt monopoly on violence called "government". There is nothing "utopic" about free market capitalism - there will always be evil in this world, but there is no reason why it cannot be demystified, deritualized, and recognized as such.