ConCen

Hey Roseberry, hopefully you can spread some light on these questions. I was wondering, what is the purpose of Freemasonry, to make you a better man? Also, why dont Freemasons like to share their hidden knowledge with the rest of us? Lastly, if your in a Freemasonic Christian lodge, why dont you ever hear the word Jesus inside, but rather 'the Great Architect'?
Dont want to put any pressure on you, take your time. If you dont feel like answering, I dont mind.

Thanks a lot.

Course I don't mind answering.

Quote:What is the purpose of Freemasonry, to make you a better man?

I suppose in essence that is correct it certainly provides the individual with the tools to make himself a better man but I do challenge the US view that it makes a man better without any assistance from the man himself. Freemasonry is very individual - you make of it what you will as an individual, you get out of it what you want to. Some are happy with a social club with a bit of mumbo jumbo thrown in. Others are nore interested in their own spiritual development but the point is that all can exist in harmony. An more complete answer to this question can be found here and as I'm latgely in agreement with this piece there's little point in cutting and pasting.

Quote:Also, why dont Freemasons like to share their hidden knowledge with the rest of us?

Simply because I promised not to. Nothing sinister in that. Freemasonry is about your own personal honesty, integrity etc. The unfortunate truth for some people is that the greatest secret about freemasonry is that there aren't actually any secrets. I'll develop this one later.

Quote:Lastly, if your in a Freemasonic Christian lodge, why dont you ever hear the word Jesus inside, but rather 'the Great Architect'?

That's a misunderstanding. Craft Lodges are not christian. They admit anyone (lets not get into the men / women debate just at the moment) who has a belief in a Supreme Being whatever the individul choses to call him/her/it. The term Great Architect as an all-encompassing term so as not to cause either disharmony or offence. Freemasonry is non religious although I will say there are certainly religious aspects to it. I grant you there are side orders which require the profession of a trinitarian Christian faith before you can enter them,

Hope that helps for the time being.


Cheers

Awesome, thanks a lot. The conspiracy nut in my head cracked a bit:)

I'll come back to the "secrets" bit later this evening but in the meantime are there no more questions?

Cheers

Ya I actually do have another question. Although the mainstream Freemasonry isnt bad, you have to agree that there are evil subsects like Templars and whatnot.

"Ya I actually do have another question. Although the mainstream Freemasonry isnt bad, you have to agree that there are evil subsects like Templars and whatnot."

Evil is a pretty damn subjective word.

You need to understand what actually goes on at "meetings," and though me or the other Masons here could try to it's hard to explain, it's subjects that I'm sure one could construe as "evil" but I, and I mean this, have come to interperet a lot of that stuff as heavy Christian thinking.

I think it's safer to say that evil men have been Masons. Being a 32 or 33 degree Mason may sound like lizard speak, but everyone at my lodge is a Past Master and most all of them are of the 32 degree of the Scottish Right (and the corresponding high degrees of York), so for say Bob Dole to be a 32nd, it just means he dedicated 2 hours a week to "going through the motions," I hope to be a Past Master ASAP.

"There are no secrets really? That sounds like a bit of a catch22 then, when you can't dispel the supposed mythos of there being secrets of malign context by simple virtue of the fact of actually being sworn to secrecy."

Than we get into another catch22 of if I dispel the rumors, would you believe me? Or would I be scrutinized as "not knowing anything" or "covering up"?

When I first joined I was down for "exposing the show" and shit, very shortly afterward that thinking left my mind.

I like Masonry, I wouldn't mind some of my friends joining, people join because they wanna "know," if the cats out of the bag there's no incentive.

You can go online and find a LOT of stuff (read Uriel's Machine and the Hiram Key, I will say that those books are legit in their claims by the authors) I even found a translation of one of the oaths, a little different here and there but it's generally the same, Masonry purports to hold the key to a lot of things, the true "word of God" for instance or the true story of the ancient Hebrews and their rise and falls, so if you wanna know it's all out there, I can't comment on Bill Schneoblin's 99 degree lizard pope stuff but.... you get what I'm tossin, right?

I don't wanna say Masonry is "harmless" because at any moment we could fillet an Arab virgin for Molech, but over half the shit I've read about Masonry has been severely debunked (and demystified) for me.

P.S. I need a suit for my place in the Lodge as an officer, everyone just gave me suits, I have 8 of them now, it is a fun little team mentality.

Mg. Masonry is at its core just another religious philosophy. They keep their rituals to themself primarily to give each and every new member an experience for life through the initiation ritual and following crawling up the steps. If everybody knows what the ritual is, wheres the surprice for the new brother? Todays freemasons have next to nothing to do with the revoilutionaries and money interrests of old. And it would seem today that only very paranoid christians and muslims, view them as anything but a middleclass excuse to leave the wife and kids for a night each month in the company of other men. My grandad is from a genereation where more or less any and all succesfully produktive men was welcomed in. They are often confused with preveliged clubs, but thats another thing entirely, and i have seen none of those claiming to be mason, or being very secretive about what they do. the lions club e.g...these are not masons, alltho they attract people who may be.

For long i viewed masonry in a conspiratorial light, untill i realised that several of my own family members where members. And eventually i just walked up the the largest logde where i live and said. show me what youve got, which was met with much moro and, laughter and smile (would you belive it, i wasnt the only one). They were and are however very informative and dont mind answering any and all questions except about the practicalities of ritual. they dont mind talking lengths about the ideas, the motivation etc, behind the rituals but would shed no light on exactly how they are done. My grandads lodge invite in for a yearly family dinner and i joined in a couple of years ago and was asked for my interrests in joining (very secretive huh?), which honestly is none. Its just another silly hodgepodge of mumbojumbo with a little transhumanism thrown in for for good measure. And sure, in some clubs you can properbly "meet all the right people" ..if you can get in that is, but masonry wide and far is just another silly religion that serves to please a few mens ego, and their wifes who have a night off. They are are not the be all end all of a conspioracy but was a usefull tool for the powers that be during the 19th century struggle of europe. In the same manner christiandom was befoer that, and today islam is being used in the exact same way, through exactly the same means.

Seceret societies hellbend on world domination are a problem no doubt, and they excists too we all know that to some extend wheter we want to admit it or not. But the masons is not a secret society, they are a wide open, widely acknowledged spiritual society with secrets, and thats one hell of a difference that seems to surpass any and all researchers ignited by the mental pleague of religion as opposed to honest faith. If anything i would suspect the intense focus on these common folks and their little silly clubs as brought and paid for bt TPTB to conspiratain the restless of society with a scapegoat.

The fact is. to most people. Sunni islam and other branches comes off as a secret society. People dress funny, they speak funny, they have obvious things going on undertood between only themself, they tend to isolate themself in a society etc... the secret society card has always been, and always will be, played! by those who can gain potential benefit from it, and that very rarely is the target of the public suspicion which as im writing this, is Islam.

I don't see why it has to be black or white answer. Just because someone is, or has family members who are masons - and sees only innocuous content in the organisation doesn't mean that that is a panacea either,really.

After all, isn't it Masonic lodges in the states that are making a big push with scheme for parents to get their children sub dermally implanted? that surely doesn't exactly evoke a sense of confidence in the orders.

yes but arent those ldoges american? are you sure its not got something to do with being american that causes that behaviour, do you now its from the lodge? My point is that to talk about freemansons is akin to talk about "black people", "white people", "jews", "muslims", you cant really make these broad sweeping generalisation and have to look at the individual club itself. Because their teachings as such are perfectly harmless, or as dangerous as any other religious doctrone depending on who is reading. Teachings altso differ videly from lodge to lodge, system to system. The term freemasons, is just that. A term that covers a lot of land.

yeah, I'm basically in agreement. It's as impossible to say there is absolutely nothing 'rotten in denmark' as to say the whole structure is intrinsically ridden with malevolent context, as both are sweeping generalisations.



Why the chips would be pushed through lodges simply due to 'an American mindset' though is less tenable though imho. It seems like there's more devious underpinnings to such an orchestration,rather than simply cultural mores, to me.

Quote:Why the chips would be pushed through lodges simply due to 'an American mindset' though is less tenable though imho. It seems like there's more devious underpinnings to such an orchestration,rather than simply cultural mores, to me.

Just to add, my lodge has never mentioned this and in fact there's 3 members (not including me) who openly talk about the 9/11 conspiracy.

I will say they do encourage people to enter their kids in Demolay or the other children orgs, and they do the same pushing for females to join the Eastern Star, but I've never heard RFID talk in any of the 3 lodges I've been to.

And I just wanna add, because of Masonry's "secrecy" about the goings on of the lodge, it's awfully damn easy to just make something up, put it on the internet, and poof it's got a mind of it's own.

Im not convinced that Masonry is a good thing, theres too many holes im seeing. Look at the Antichrist eye they put on the dollar bill. Explain that.
Thanks to all who replied,
MG

try this mg.

http://watch.pair.com/mason.html

I think the "antichrist" eye thing is pretty shady. I know that christian researchers in particular insist that it is the case. But for you being a muslim, even if you chose to go by the guidence of Bukharis scriptures, the description of antichrist is not simply a guy with just one eye. The antichrist of Bukharis hadith has one good eye and one that is crippled, the descrption is like somehting similar in shape and texture to a raisin. He has a terribly disfigured appearence (cirkus freak) and a hairy back. These are precise informations that the hadith provides. Rather the eye is the wathcfull eye of God as seen in many cultures and religions before freemasonry, and this is a kind of symbolism that islam and christianity doesnt shy away from. Im sure you have seen this:



Khamsa is not a part of Islam par se, but muslims wide and far accepts it as a charm against "evil eyes" (whatever that is). MG more than anyone you should be able to understand how annoying it is when people have unreasonable suspicions aginst your religion of choice, primarily because ignorant, but insisting, professional tossers talk about it as if they knew anything about it and manages to convince the gullible. There are secrets in masonrys doctrine but masons themself bear none of the hallmarks of a secret organisation the most important of which is being secret! So im willing to give them the benefit of doubt, because of what i can actually observe about them, which is a bunch of tossers in funny hats and costumes that does community work. The other part of it is that i have spend some time looking up their doctrines and teachings which are anything but secret. If a mason is ignorant of the masonic teachings of his lodge or system, it is because he is uninterrested afaii in climbing the steps, and rather use
the lodge as a social club , not because the information isnt given or avaible. Muslims can relate to this. We have all kinds of secretive crackpot organisations on the loose in our name, most of them support by ignorant muslims that are so not because the information proving these dolts werong is not avaible, but because they chose not to read it.

And this is my standing point. If masonry is still infected and still used as a tool for the money powers it is hardly ue to their doctrines which is fraternity, freindship, love, care,...stuff you would be an outright idiot not to subscribe to, and the individual mason who belives in these doctrines and who tries his best to meet them and do community work can never be blamed for being a tool for the money powers. We all are at some level in a similar fashion in each of our own lifes.

To understand the fear of freemasonry youll have to understand where they came from as an intellectual, philosphical and later religion inspired movement. There was a time when christianity and despotism was the name of the tune, and if you had an oppinion that differed from that of the party line, you were in fucking trouble! these assholes would torture, maime and kill you. So naturally, people who thought differently was forced underground to share their views with people of like minds. The church and local despot feared these clubs, and with good reason too and this somehow got stuck in the christian psyche ,alltho on a purely spiritual level, both subscribe to much the same ideals.

And finally the, the kind of evidence that is offered up to prove masonrys "guilt" are equal parts hearsay, intentional mis intepretations in otherwords, useless (but highly entertaining none the less). And thus atleast for muslims i would invoke the following:

"O you who believe, you shall avoid any suspicion, for even a little bit of suspicion is sinful. You shall not spy on one another, nor shall you backbite one another; this is as abominable as eating the flesh of your dead brother. You certainly abhor this. You shall observe GOD. GOD is Redeemer, Most Merciful." (49:12)

The masons claims to be of those who believe in single God, They do good deeds that are well documented and as a group so no individual get "credit" for it (which is honorable), they promote love and fraternity, and i have no evidence to the contrary so my place is pretty much to STFU rather than spread rumours that could damage someone undeserving. It doesnt mean that we cant investigate, should we be suspicious:

"O you who believe, if a wicked person brings any news to you, you shall first investigate, lest you commit injustice towards some people, out of ignorance, then become sorry and remorseful for what you have done." (49:6)

So, if maxwell, tsarion et all, tells you something. It is important to investigate carefully, which i belive is what youre doing allready MG btw. So we dont end up hurting someones feelings merely because of our own insecurities.:)

I remember Plasticfan posting up this article before but can't find the inhouse link right now.

http://www.atheists.org/Atheism/roots/enlightenment/

There's lots of useful historical info in this piece.